Democratic Debate February 21, 2008

Categories: News | Politics | Presidential Candidates | Election 2008

  • On February 21, 2008 the University of Texas hosted a debate between Democratic candidates Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. The debate was an opportunity for the candidates to discuss pertinent issues prior to the 2008 Texas Primary.

  • Plagiarism Accusations

    The Texas debate was seen as a turning point for the Clinton Campaign, as she would go on to win the March 4th Texas Primary. One of the more memorable moments of the debate came when Clinton accused Obama of plagiarizing parts of his speeches. Clinton claimed that, "Lifting whole passages from someone else’s speeches is not change you can believe in. It’s change you can Xerox."New York Times: Debate Takes On Contentious Air (February 22, 2008)

  • Democratic Debate February 21, 2008 Liveblogging

    • All times Eastern
    • 9:43 PM Debate ends with a standing ovation for both candidates.
    • 9:38 PM: Question: Describe the moment that tested them the most?
      • Obama: Won't point to a single moment, but instead discusses the trajectory of his life. Raised by a single mother and his grandparents. "There were rocky periods during my youth." He had to learn to take responsibility for his actions, and how to bring people together to make a difference for people. He learned these lessons as a community activist and civil rights attorney. These cumulative experience is why he has the qualifications he has, and why he is determined the American people "get a government worthy of their decency and their generosity."
      • Clinton: "I think everybody here knows I've lived through some crises..." She's grateful for the support of "countless Americans." "People often ask me, 'how do you do it? How do you keep going?'" And she just shakes her head, because she feels she's been privileged and other Americans have suffered far more. She was honored to be asked, along with McCain, to speak at the opening of the Intrepid Center in San Antonio, designed to care for wounded veterans. "The hits I've taken in life are nothing compared to what goes on every single day in the lives of people across our country, and I resolved at a very young age that I'd been blessed, and that I was called by my faith and my upbringing to bring others the same blessings..." She says she is "honored to be here with Barack Obama." [Applause] Whatever happens, they will be fine.
    • 9:35 PM: Question for Clinton: The primary will come down to superdelegates. Does she agree with Nancy Pelosi that it would be a problem if superdelegates made the decision for the party, and not voters?
      • Clinton: She feels it will work itself out and that the party winning in November is the real key.
      • Obama: Feels it is important that primaries and caucuses count for something. The will of the voters must determine the nominee. It's most important that voters feel the government is listening to them. They don't currently feel that debates in Washington have anything to do with them.
    • 9:31 PM: Question for Obama: Why have you refused to disclose what your earmarks went to fund?
      • Obama: He calls this allegation untrue and says he believes strongly in transparency. Wants to create "Google for government," a searchable database of all funds spent by the government. The idea is to open up the process to allow the American people to make judgments. He wants more disclosure around earmarks, which he notes are often worthy projects in states.
    • Follow-up to Clinton: Does McCain have a stronger case to make than her on wasteful, pork-barrel spending?
      • Clinton: No, she says, because he supported the wasteful policies of President Bush. Bush inherited a surplus which he then wasted. "We borrow money from the Chinese to buy oil from the Saudis." Wants to get back to fiscal responsibility and support the middle-class as opposed to Bush "cronyism." Wants to get back "to the path we were on." Feels comfortable discussing Republican fiscal irresponsibility with McCain.
    • 9:21 PM: Question: One of you will run against a decorated war hero who will claim you lack the experience to be Commander-in-Chief. Looking at Iraq now, with the security situation possibly improving, is the country better off today than it was a year ago because of the surge?
      • Clinton: Rationale of the surge was to give the Iraqi government time to organize. It was not a question whether or not adding military to Iraq would give us a tactical advantage and improve security, but this was not the purpose. The Iraqi government has "slowly inched toward making a few decisions in a less than complete way," but hasn't truly taken advantage of all the sacrifices made by America. Upon taking office, she will ask the Secretary of Defense and Joint Chiefs to devise a plan to withdraw troops within 60 days. Communicate to Iraqis that they don't have "a blank check" or infinite time. Doesn't think it's in America's interest or Iraq's interest to remain in Iraq.
      • Obama: It is indisputable that violence has been reduced, which he calls a credit to our troops. Praises Fort Hood and honors their service. But "this was a tactical victory imposed on a huge strategic blunder." It will be easier for him to debate John McCain because of his initial position against the Iraq War, whereas Clinton will have a more difficult time arguing about strategy and tactics. Brings up foreign aid to Africa, which amounts to what we spend in Iraq in a week. "Iran is the single biggest strategic beneficiary" of our Iraqi invasion. Regrets the burden placed on the American people, starting with military families, calling it "unacceptable." Money spent in Iraq means we can't improve America's infrastructure or social programs. Wants to debate McCain's assertion that we should stay in Iraq for 100 years.
    • 9:10 PM: Question for Clinton: Does she feel Obama is unqualified to be Commander-in-Chief?
      • Clinton: "I will leave that for voters to decide." Then moves into health care, above objections from the moderators. She knows that if we don't mandate insurance, the companies will still game the system and stick Americans with a "hidden tax." Brings up a point John Edwards had made: without starting out with a plan for universal health care, you will be "nibbled to death."
    • Obama wants to interject and has to argue with Campbell Brown, who wants to move on.
      • Obama: When Clinton says mandate, "it's not a mandate on government to provide health insurance. It's a mandate on individuals to purchase it." He brings up Massachusetts and their mandate program, which forces those who can't afford insurance to pay an additional fine. To force people to buy insurance, we'd go after their wages.
    • Again, Clinton forcibly interjects above protests from the moderators.
      • Clinton: "I just fundamentally disagree." Obama's plan has a mandate and a fine on parents, but not everyone else. If everyone didn't participate, a lot of our national programs wouldn't work.
      • Obama: A hypothetical mother who wants health care for her child would get it. The reason a mandate for children can work is that we have the ability right now to make that care affordable. "If a parent is not providing health care for that child, it's because the parent's not being responsible." Adults, however, should have a choice, and will see that they can get insurance under the Obama plan. If they game the system, then we can impose penalties. "But the notion that I am interested in leaving out 15 million people who don't have insurance is not true."
    • Question is asked again: Does Clinton believe that Obama is not ready to be Commander-in-Chief?
      • Clinton: She discusses her experience with foreign affairs, including Kosovo and her experience on the Senate Armed Services Committee. She has been a leader in Congress, she says, on national security. Discusses Kosovo Independence and the unrest in Serbia this morning as an example of the crises faced by Presidents. "When you think about everything that is going to happen...I believe that I am prepared and ready on Day One to be Commander-in-Chief..."
      • Obama: "I wouldn't be running if I didn't think I was prepared to be Commander-in-Chief." He will not hesitate to act against those that would do American harm. It means using our military wisely. He believes Clinton was wrong on the most important policy decision in this generation, and that his opposition on Iraq demonstrated his judgment on foreign affairs. "That has significant consequences," including distracting from the war in Afghanistan and the fight against Al Qaeda. It is easier, he claims, for our troops to steal weapons from the Taliban than wait for supplies from Washington. On every critical foreign policy issue, he's been correct and has shown the judgment to lead.
    • 8:55 PM: Question for Obama: Asks about the plagiarism charges leveled against Obama. How do you respond?
      • Obama: One line out of all the speeches he's given was similar to a speech by Deval Patrick, who is influential to his campaign. Does not feel this is plagiarism. "The notion that I have plagiarized from someone who is a national campaign co-chair...is silly." Feels these kinds of attacks discourage people, and is part of politics' "silly season." Admits that some of his speeches have been "pretty good," but claims they are substantive and not just inspirational. He claims that Clinton has a fine record, but so does he, and that he doesn't want to spend time tearing her down.
      • Clinton: "If your candidacy is going to be about words, then they should be your own words...Lifting whole passages out of someone else's speeches is not change you can believe it, it is change you can Xerox." [Applause mixed with hissing and boos]. No doubt that Obama is a passionate speaker, "but when you look at what we face in this country...we have to unite the country for a purpose around very specific goals. It's not enough to say 'let's come together.'" Obama chose a health care plan, for example, that will leave out millions. She wants to look hard at the difficult challenges the country faces, particularly in the post-Bush era. We must not just bring the country together but overcome entrenched opposition. Brings up her experience fighting for health care against intense opposition. "I don't want to leave anybody out."
      • Obama: He's happy to debate their differences. "We both want universal health care." Cites that Clinton praised his plan when he was down in the polls, but now opposes him. He wants a system that will allow anyone to get coverage, and will subsidize those who can't afford it. He wants to limit costs by emphasizing prevention and improve technology, along with cutting bureaucracy. Discusses his catastrophic insurance plan to reduce costs as well. "We've got a philosophical difference which we've debated repeatedly. Senator Clinton believes the only way to achieve universal health care is to force everybody to purchase it. My belief is that the reason people don't have it is not because they don't want it, but because they can't afford it." Wants to have a debate on the mandate, but does not agree that he is leaving millions of people out. Admires Clinton's experience with health care reform, but feels that she went about it in the wrong way. It wasn't just opposition from drug and insurance companies - she failed because she went behind closed doors and excluded members of Congress and their ideas.
    • 8:49 PM: Question for Clinton: You said "My opponent gives speeches; I offer solutions." Are you saying that Obama is "all hat and no cattle"?
      • Clinton: "I have said that about President Bush. The next President needs a lot less hat and a lot more cattle...I think you can tell from the first 45 minutes, Senator Obama and I have a lot in common." Calls the race so far "very positive and civil." In their efforts to draw contrasts, they try to differentiate themselves. She believes that she is unique in offering voters solutions because it's what she's always done and she wants to highlight their records. Mention Kirk Watson and his inability to recall Obama's accomplishments. "Words matter but actions speak louder than words."
      • Obama: "Actions do speak louder than words" which is why he has "acted a lot." He has fought to increase government transparency. Brings up Walter Reed again, and argues that the veterans there would say he's engaged in not just talk, but also action. "I think Senator Clinton has a fine record..." But he feels that there is still a fundamental difference in how they see change coming about. When Clinton says "let's get real," he feels she's calling his supporters "delusional." Mentions that he has won the endorsement of all major Texas newspapers, who he claims are not being "duped." "I think they perceive reality very clearly...The reason this campaign has done so well is because people understand that it is not just a matter of putting forward policy positions..."
    • 8:42 PM: Question for Clinton: Is there any downside to the US becoming a bilingual nation?
      • Clinton: It's important for as many Americans as possible to learn another language. (She has never been able to.) However, she thinks it's important that English remain a common, unifying language. It brings our country together and helps immigrants to join the American experience and pursue the American Dream. Against legal efforts to make English "the official language."
      • Obama: It's important that everyone learns English and that we bind ourselves together as a country through its use. Every student, however, should have to learn a second language. Children coming out of Spanish-speaking households should not be left behind, but it's just as important that English-speaking Americans can communicate across borders. We have fallen behind in this area, and he calls this a failure of No Child Left Behind - too much focus on standardized tests, not enough on useful education like foreign languages.
    • 8:35 PM: Question for Clinton: As President, would you commit to finishing a border fence? Or is it time to reconsider the border fence idea?
      • Clinton: Voted for a fence "as part of the immigration debate." Calls the current debate "absurd." "There is a smart way to protect our borders and a dumb way to protect our borders." Part of the University of Texas at Brownsville would be cut off by a border fence. People are separated from their families and the movement of goods is negatively impacted by a border fence. "There may be places where a physical barrier is appropriate." When she voted in favor of such a fence, she thought it would be considered only where it was appropriate, but the Bush administration "has gone off the deep end." Calls their plan "counter-productive." Wants to listen to those who live along the border, who understand the issue best.
    • Follow-up question: Does that mean your vote was wrong? Or was it an implementation problem?
      • Clinton: There's a lot we've learned about smart fencing. The way the Bush administration is going about the fence issue makes no sense.
      • Obama: This is an area where he and Clinton almost entirely agree. Technologically advanced border control is the answer. "The American people want fairness, want justice." Deporting millions of people is "ridiculous" and would take up all of our law enforcement capability. Comprehensive reform is the only answer. Something we should do immediately: Pass the "Dream Act" which allows children who have grown up as Americans the opportunity for higher education.
    • 8:30 PM: Question: Would you consider stopping immigration raids until comprehensive reform could be passed?
      • Clinton: Yes, she would support a cease on these raids except in extreme cases. Calls rounding up illegal immigrants "a stark admission of failure by the federal government." Wants "comprehensive immigration reform." Wants tougher, more secure borders, but wants to do it by cracking down on employers who exploit undocumented employers and providing more federal help for communities absorbing costs of immigration. Also wants to work with Mexico to create more jobs there. "We need a path to legalization to bring these immigrants out of the shadows." Paying fines, paying back taxes, learning English should be required.
      • Obama: Has worked on comprehensive immigration reform "extensively." His attempts "died in the House because it was used as a political football." Feels it's critical that we "tone down the rhetoric when it comes to the immigration debate." Calls the undertone "ugly" and directed at the Hispanic community. Blames this debate for a rise in hate crimes. Wants to reconcile being a nation of laws and of immigrants. Wants to crack down on employers without a rise in discrimination against those with foreign names. Though we need a path to legalization, illegal immigrants should go to "the back of the line." Calls the current system "discriminatory" against those who lack the resources to hire lawyers. Also wants to work closely with the Mexican government to improve their economy, "so their economy is creating jobs on that side of the border." Blames the Bush administration for its failure to lead on the issue of the U.S.-Mexican relationship. "President Bush dropped the ball" because he has been too focused on the Iraq War.
    • 8:22 PM: Question for Obama: As specifically as you can, how would President Obama be different from President Clinton on the economy?
      • Obama: "You don't need an economist or the Federal Reserve to tell the American people the economy's in trouble." Must restore a sense of "fairness and balance" in our tax code and encourage investment in America, not overseas. End Bush tax cuts to the wealthy and provide tax breaks "to working Americans who need them." If you make less than $75,000 a year, he wants to give you an offset on your tax to give you an extra $1,000 a year. Pay for the plan by closing tax loopholes. More stringent standards for trade, so we don't have dangerous products poisoning Americans. Also wants a more green economy with less dependence on foreign oil. Investments in alternative fuel can put people back to work, he claims. He and Clinton, he says, agree on most of these issues, as did most of the other Democratic candidates this election cycle. The question: "How do we get it done?" The changes will only come about if we can form "a working coalition from change," because special interests who prefer the status quo will resist.
      • Clinton: "I would agree with a lot that Senator Obama just said, because it is the Democratic agenda." Also wants to end loopholes and corporate giveaways and to reflect the needs of the middle-class in the tax code. "The wealthy and the well-connected have had a president for the last seven years." Wants "a trade time-out and a trade prosecutor," to enforce our standards before we begin new trading. Steps she would take immediately: crack down on abusive predatory loans, 90-day moratorium on foreclosures, freeze interest rates for five years. Supports $5 million investment in "clean, green jobs." Wants to invest as well in infrastructure. "We need to end George Bush's War on Science.
    • Clinton is cut off by Campbell Brown but ignores her.
    • 8:13 PM: Question for Clinton: Would you sit down with Raul Castro or whomever is placed in charge of Cuba, to get a measure of the man?
      • Clinton: She feels Castro stepping down gives Cuba a chance to change direction. "I'm going to be looking for some of those changes." She wants to bring the region together with our European allies and push for progressive change. "If Cuba moves toward democracy and freedom...the United States will welcome that." As President, she would try to create momentum that would lead to a presidential visit to Cuba, but there has to be evidence that the changes are real and permanent.
    • Question is restated to Clinton. Would you meet with him?'
      • Clinton: "I would not meet with him until there was evidence that change is happening."
    • Follow-up question to Obama. Would you be willing to meet with the new leader of Cuba?
      • Obama: First priority is the liberty of the Cuban people. "I would meet, without preconditions, although Senator Clinton is right that there has to be preparation." Human rights and a free press would have to be on his agenda for any meeting in Cuba. It's important, he says, for the US to talk to its enemies, not just its friends. "That's where diplomacy makes the biggest difference." Wants to loosen restrictions on travel for those who want to visit family in Cuba.
    • Second follow-up. Didn't you support normalizing relations with Cuba?
      • Obama: He does support normalizing relations, but not without improvements in human rights and freedom for Cubans. "Our goal has to be, ultimately, normalization, but that's got to happen in steps." He says these principles apply generally. Quotes JFK: "We should not negotiate out of fear, but we should never fear to negotiate."
      • Clinton: Agrees with Obama that we should be willing to have diplomatic negotiations with anyone. It's in the interest of oppressed people for the US to meet diplomatically with their leaders. She still opposes meeting with Cuban leader without preconditions. We have to "take the measure" of foreign leaders. Also quotes JFK: he would expect preparatory work before acting. Bush administration has acted against our interests by alienating friends and emboldening enemies. Wants "bipartisan diplomacy," sending emissaries from both political parties, to send a message that unilateralism and arrogance of the Bush administration is over.
      • Obama: Either of them would step back from the Bush administration's policies. But feels it's important that the new president "take a more active role in diplomacy than might have been true 20 years ago." He's afraid Clinton's stance doesn't demonstrate the proper humility - we aren't above anyone else.
    • 8:08 PM: Obama Opening Statement: Thanks University of Texas, Austin and calls sharing the stage with Clinton "an honor." Says our economy is "in shambles." He discusses a conversation with a San Antonio couple who are going to have their home foreclosed because of a predatory loan. "Their mortgage doubled in two weeks." Talks about poor working people who get too little sleep because they have to take care of ill family members. Talks about the devastating job losses caused by outsourcing and NAFTA. Also brings up veterans and the parents of veterans whom he wants to help, whose injuries, he says, were caused by a war he never supported. He and Clinton, he says, have both offered proposals to fix these problems. "What's lacking right now is not good ideas...Washington has become a place where good ideas go to die." [Applause] Wants to enlist Americans to take back their government. Also comments on Barbara Jordan, who said that the American people "want an America that's as good as its promise."
    • 8:06 PM: Clinton Opening Statement: First political job was registering voters in South Texas. She lived in Austin and San Antonio at that time. Shares values with Texas: belief in hard work and self-reliance. Mentions her friendships with Barbara Jordan, "who taught me a lot about courage" and former Governor Ann Richards, "a great champion for the people of Texas." For her, "politics is about making real differences in people's lives." Mentions her Children's Health Insurance Program and her initiative to expand health care for those who serve in the National Guard. Wants to stop health insurance companies from discriminating against the sick. "It's okay to discriminate against sick people, and we're going to end that." Also wants to continue her work in the Senate to take care of veterans, and mentions the controversy at the Walter Reed Army Medical Center. "I offer a lifetime of experience and proven results."
    • 8:05 PM: Campbell Brown thanks University of Texas, Austin and introduces rules and outlines for debate. No hard and fast rules; candidates asked to stay on point and be reasonable in the length of their statements.
    • '8:02 PM: Candidates take photos with local officials and fellow politicians.
    • 8:00 PM: Debate begins with introduction of moderators and candidates.

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