Why do people who love technology also love The Lord of the Rings?
I also read The Lord of the Rings (LOTR) at maybe about age thirteen, having read The Hobbit perhaps a couple of years earlier.
I didn't see any connections between those things, and I didn't have any idea that lots of people loved LOTR. Esp as it turned out people that today we'd call geeks.
Of course today, after the movies, online fandoms etc, it is clear that I am an example of a certain type of person, and there are lots of people that like exactly the same sets of things that I do.
But why should it be that people who like one of those things also tend to like the others as well?
All theories, guesses and anecdotes welcome!
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M$9 Answers
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Libertarian "No Rules" Mindset:
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Technologists tend to be "disruptive" unconventional thinkers that reject popular beliefs and limitations. The internet tends to be disproportionately Libertarian in nature. It is a haven for free thinking people who can create anonymous identities and conduct themselves however they like. All that really matters is your skills, abilities and achievements. The programmer in the next cubicle from you might be a real a-hole, look like the world's biggest nerd or be a suave muscular Adonis and it doesn't matter. If he writes great code and can provide innovation in a timely manner then you want him for your ally no matter if you like him or not.
People like Steve Jobs and Bill Gates were famous for being blunt, rude and disagreeable to their colleagues and staff, yet they rose to the pinnacle of tech wealth, power and prestige because they had the skills to succeed in their industry (admittedly as much of a business example as a tech example). In LOTR, Gandalf talks disdainfully to royalty, generals and mighty wizards as if they were ignorant users misbehaving on his computer network. His power and arcane knowledge trumps their social positions and traditional rules don't apply to him.
The great "Hacker Crackdown" of the 1980's showed that tech geeks don't mind hacking their way into a system to learn something new, gain access to information or change the world to their liking. Even to this day, technophiles tend to support file sharing, create things like The Pirate Bay and invent ways to circumvent government surveillance (TOR, encryption, proxies, etc.). The will to know something has been trumping rules and limitations throughout the age of reason and technology. This ties in nicely with LOTR because the story is an epic struggle to control a technology (the ring) that would afford the possessor the ability to defy rules and alter reality.
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Fantasy and Escape:
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Both the internet and LOTR offer escape into a fantasy world. A frail and timid 12 year old can go online from the safety of his mother's basement and threaten to use his L33T hax0r skillz to pwn the "noob" who clearly was cheating because he was able kill a Level 19 Ogre Paladin in spite of the Obsidian Splint Mail and Sacred Sword of Stabbing. This is as much of an escape from reality as reading about a child sized Hobbit using a magical blade to defend himself against orcs and goblins while trying to destroy a magical ring. When that 12 year old grows up, there is a good chance that his love for the technology that affords such escapes will lead him to work with technology for a living.
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Nothing Is Impossible:
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"That's impossible!" is an interesting challenge for a tech geek. When Microsoft, Google, Apple, Myspace, YouTube, Twitter and other major technology brands were developed I doubt that most of the world expected them to succeed or even saw value in their efforts. Now these tech brands are ubiquitous and have changed our way of life simply because some geeks (and businessmen) refused to accept limitations.
Frodo constantly has powerful people telling him to hand over the ring so that they can put it to better use rather than "waste it" on a doomed fool's errand. In spite of this, he stubbornly sticks to the plan and *SPOILER ALERT* accomplishes his mission after resisting governments, allies and enemies alike. His refusal to accept something as impossible ultimately saves the day and ensures him a place of honor amongst relentless geeks.
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Technology = Magic
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Arthur C. Clarke wrote: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
Wizards and geeks are usually associated with years of studying arcane languages and doing things that others don't care to comprehend. To the uninitiated, technology might as well be magic and computer geeks might as well be Gandalf using magic to influence reality. When I solve a tech problem for the average person they usually are no more interested in the details of how I did it than Gandalf's allies were when he *SPOILER ALERT* cast Saruman out of Théoden, broke Saruman's staff and turned night into day to stop some trolls. Geeks and wizards are simply supposed to do such things and no explanation is desired.
Gandalf vs Saruman:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBW5P8c6_cs
Boromir's Idea (profanity in subtitles)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EWfllJ6kNw
How the LOTR Should have Ended:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yqVD0swvWU
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M$So what all this shows is that it really is a personality thing not just following a niche tradition. Exactly what the traits are I'm not sure, but it runs to science, math, and history, with a big dose of scholarly imagination and humor.
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M$
Yes, it's easy to see why say Star Trek and programming might appeal to the same people, but not so obvious why LOTR would hit the spot in the same way.
Funny that you mention Conan Doyle! Though he is at least famed for a certain hero who loved deductive reasoning, which is something of a geekish connection.
Well, Conan Doyle did have that other hero and I read those books too; but, everyone read them. It takes a slightly different personality to get worked up about knights and archers and chivalry and yeomen and monks (the monks are bad guys) etc. I have read real military history books which quote from Conan Doyle passages about the battle of Agincourt, it's as if he was there. It's that English attention to detail in historical tales, real history or not, whether it's LoTR or a Monty Python skit.
Ok.. I now a pose a follow-up question, only slightly tongue-in-cheek...
Do you think a love of LOTR could be diagnostic of programming ability in (hitherto) non-programmers?
He further cites and compares the minutiae of the LOTR Numenorean genealogies or Elvish syntax rules to that faced by a programmer dealing with assembler code or lining up a graphic's pixels correctly.
It is not so much the fictional subject matter, rather the complexity and depth of LOTR which many programmers could relate to and eventually assumed as part of what, in its early stages could have been termed a cult, into a sub-culture, the present day geek culture.
Bennie further stipulates that the seminal work for this sub-culture was in fact LOTR.
It is therefore not surprising, that certain individuals, who were exposed to LOTR prior to this paradigm cohesion taking place, may not harbor such strong attachment to LOTR; while the vast majority of those who came into the field after it, hold LOTR in close esteem, not so much for its literary or cinematographic attributes, but rather as an act of communion with their contemporary tech and programming colleagues.
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M$
I think Dungeons and Dragons helped greatly as that was a Tolken-esque creative endevor that melded aspects of acting, fantasy, and war gaming. (Play it! It is pretty fun)
Also the movie release had deepened the love as the film used fantastic technology to produce the CG war sceens.
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M$
I think you're on to something, but we might have to be more specific than saying "imagination and creativity". Far be it for me to suggest that programmers have more imagination than say teachers or lawyers.
But maybe something to do with being keen on looking beyond the everyday and familiar world.
But then, everyone has boatloads cognitive dissonance. The fact is that Tolkien is pretty well-entrenched in the geek community now. (It isn't just entrenched there, of course, especially when the movies had such a huge audience and so much critical acclaim -- Oscars! -- but I digress.) And so is technology. It isn't a correlation thing, then, but more of an "A likes B. A also likes C" thing.
It isn't just Tolkien, either; it's fantasy literature in general. And a lot of geek culture is influenced by fantasy/sci-fi. Dungeons and Dragons, for one, gets a lot of its creatures from Tolkien.
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M$
This is true, but how and why did it get entrenched in the geek commiunity?
There was no such thing as a geek community back in the 70s when I learned programming and read LOTR. I certainly wasn't part of any such community!
I read The Hobbit because a public library had it on a reading list for a children's contest. I read LOTR later because I'd loved the Hobbit. No one I knew ever mentioned any of these things until decades later. And yet it turns out that there were a lot of people just like me from those times.
PS I think you may be on to something with Dungeons and Dragons though! Not that I ever played it myself.
Well, the Internet obviously made the community a lot stronger, as early as Usenet. I wasn't born for those days, but a lot of this was forged around that time. Even now, it keeps a lot of fan communities going, especially for more obscure things that you'd be hard-pressed to find more than a handful of people interested in outside major cities. It's cool.
1. ability for a “small guy” to contribute to something big (saving mankind, fight evil force etc.)
Hobbit (small size, not strong, no magic) can contribute a lot against big, strong evil force.
Most scientists, technologists start small, work hard, hoping to do something big (contribute to mankind), break big companies monopoly etc..
2. quest
quest to destroy the ring is a lot similar to quest on technology.
Lots of obstacles, bigger enemies/competitors, uncertainties, hopes, unknowns, surprise factors..
The “adrenalin push” is similar.
3. teamwork
Hobbit and allies’ (formal and informal) teamwork is similar to teamwork in technology project.
Different characters, abilities of team members, joy and sorrow of teams, comradeships, betrayals..
4. Strategy
how to fend off attacks, path to avoid enemy, how to fully utilize different “components” (in LOTR: abilities, weapons, magic, environment) to make it more robust….. these are common things of LOTR and science/tech projects.
5. temptation to succumb to “evil” (ring: enjoyment, power, money), whether the quest is worthwhile
Most scientists, technologists can relate to these easily:
Should I give out on the difficult project ? Should I just opt for the easy way of life ? are these all worthwhile ?
own opinions, observations
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M$
You can leave an optional "tip" with Mahalo's virtual currency, Mahalo Dollars. If you are asking a difficult question that might require some research, or if you'd like a wide variety of feedback, a higher tip often leads to more answers to your question.
M$
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M$Don't get me wrong, I think it's because most techie people are a bit nerd in some way (and too bad, cause I'm a techie person too). Lord of the Rings is a great story but most part of it comes of a little boring and one more thing, costume! Most geek likes unique, out of this world costumes and strange looking characters. Lord of the Rings characters could also be compared to those characters we can find on some computer games we have so far.
With Lord of the Rings, the story could bring you in a different world, unlike some typical stories out there that sticks with the same world we live in. Oh, it reminds me of an acquaintance. He's such a nerd, he's a techie, and he keeps on editing his pic to make him look like a character in a game, he also acts out of this world...
So maybe that's it. Techie people are looking for something that could bring them somewhere extraordinary. Like the gadgets and new stuff they like, they want something new, something that could satisfy that craving for a new world.
Please don't bash me if I said something wrong or something that could offend you... :(
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M$
Yea... I agree. From the people I know, most of them who likes LOTR are males. The story isn't really something girls would want to watch. Or I dunno, cause I personally watch action movies and I loooove them but I don't really like LOTR that much.
We may need to disentangle the effects of geekness from the effects of maleness. I wouldn't be surprised if males in general like LOTR more than females in general. For one thing, hardly any female characters, and it is about as far removed from "chick lit" as you could get!
