Why are people saying Sarah Palin had nothing to do with the Gabrielle Giffords shooting, saying its manufactured by the liberal media
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M$4 Answers
Not all of the left is convinced however, as this quote from Steve Kornacki points out:
--quote--
Steve Kornacki, the news editor of the left-wing Salon.com, noted that Longhner's "political thinking isn't particularly coherent or organized." He said attempts to link Sarah Palin to the Arizona tragedy because her website once put crosshairs on a map of Ms. Gifford's district along with those of 18 other Democrats may show that Ms. Palin's "opponents are trying just a little too hard to make her the villain."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703779704576073950591444000.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
Evidence of Liberals advance plannig to manufature just such a response:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTKYU7f68Ys
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M$You can leave an optional "tip" with Mahalo's virtual currency, Mahalo Dollars. If you are asking a difficult question that might require some research, or if you'd like a wide variety of feedback, a higher tip often leads to more answers to your question.
M$
100% dispute your statement "Waht YOU see is of relatively little value" in fact as a voting citizen of these United States waht(sic) I see is of considerable value. Like I said in the above comment anyone claiming not to see has either been overcome with a wave of irrational blindness or is working for the enemy.
I find it quite arrogant of you to catergorically dismiss all who disagree as "blind". Is this man also blind?
--quote--
Steve Kornacki, the news editor of the left-wing Salon.com, noted that Longhner's "political thinking isn't particularly coherent or organized." He said attempts to link Sarah Palin to the Arizona tragedy because her website once put crosshairs on a map of Ms. Gifford's district along with those of 18 other Democrats may show that Ms. Palin's "opponents are trying just a little too hard to make her the villain."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703779704576073950591444000.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
Shall I find other prominent liberals that you can dismiss as "blind", on the irrefutable value of your opinion? Your bias is clearly coming through loud and clear.
I voted for Bob Barr as an Independent voter in 2008. In 2010 I voted for Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians and even a Green party candidate. Please instruct me on my bias. I do have one bias, when I see the far left blaming the actions of a mad man on their political opponents, repeatedly, in a caluclated attmpt to gain political points while the victims are still fighting for their lives or not yet cold, even though their is not a shred of evidence beyond thier own hatred which they hope to foment on a larger portion of the population, yes. Agianst that, I am biased. You, on hte other hand are biased FOR that type of behavior.
Wow. I see the connection but I can't say for certain that Palin had anything to do with it.
Crazy s**t comes up from both sides--you've got FOX News on the right and MSNBC on the left. Both have strong personalities. FOX has O'Reilly, Beck, the morning people; MSNBC has Scarorough, Schultz, Olbermann and Maddow, among others.
But have any of them have precipitated the attempted murder (or at least attempted manslaughter) of a Member of Congress? No, sorry.
Sarah Palin couldn't become the nation's first female vice-president. McCain's fault? Possibly, She's either putting on the act for an image, which changes often, or she really has no idea what she's doing. I don't believe she's presidential material. If she complains about the press bothering her family now, I've got news for you: The Clintons did everything they could to let Chelsea lead as normal a life as a teenager as she could. I was there--I saw it myself or I heard about it every day.The Obamas are doing the same. Sarah Palin's family is so over-exposed that if she can't handle it now, she likely won't be able to handle being anywhere near The White House. Maybe she should audition on Capitol Hill for a few years first.
She did walk away from politics when she was The Governor of Alaska. It's not so easy to get into politics, especially if you walked out and want back in.
A connection, other than your say so.
I feel the exact same here KeepOn. I like much of what you contribute here, I also am an Independent (no party line to protect), and feel you are the one way off base here. I just cant see how in the face of actual facts one could not see a connection.
You seem to feel I and others like me are trying to place the entire blame on Sarah Palin for this tragedy and at least in my case that is not entirely true. The timing of that advertisement was irresponsible given the fiery political atmosphere of an edgy nation so polarized. she does not bear all of the responsibility but does have to admit the connection.
There is a "Crosshairs Map" and there have been 2 death threats to people on that list and one attempted (pending) assassination to a person on that list. there have been *no* other reported death threats or attempted assassinations to any other politicians lately. Knowing all of this is true you would still fail to see a connection?
There have been other death threats against politicians on Sarah Palin's now ill fated "Crosshairs Map".
- http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-01-10/after-garbrielle-giffords-palins-other-arizona-targets-speak/
- http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/democrats-palins-crosshair-map-received-death-threats/
Anyone that does not see a connection now is plainly and blindly not seeing what is obviously there and perhaps might be intentionally not looking due to a belief in some sort of right in these actions against certain selected politicians.
KeepOn why so edgily demeaning?
You packin? Trigger touchy? Again?
What YOU see is of relatively little value. Has a court or law enforcement agency (as I plainly asked before) found any evidence of a connection?
What YOU think is of no more value than anyone else, yet you call everyone else blind? Hmmmm. Have to think about that one. Seems you think a great deal more of your own opinions than you do of anyone else, including Steve Kornacki, whose quote you conveniently overlooked? What about him, is he blind too? Are you so far superior to him also? Of course you are, what am I thinking....
Party line ? You are the only one with a party line to protect. As I stated, I have no party and vote for many parties. Unless of course you have now added "liar" to "blind " in your arrogant accusations? I like much of your work here, but you are WAY off base on this one.
Because YOU say so and nobody can dare contrdict you without being "blind"? Really? I've asked twice foar a connection wiht no response, I'll take it that you don't have one. The FBI investigates every death threat to congress. Where is the evidence of a connection to Sarah palin or the Tea Party? Admit it. Your dislike of the Tea party and Sarah Palin is the only thing that is getting a little tired. I have attended several Tea Party Events and did not particularly care for their candidates. I also investigated each of their candidates and met them in person. As of yet I have not voted for a Tea party Candidate, nor would I vote for Sarah Palin. So before you continue painting with you broad brush that is just as imaginary as you accusations against palin, perhaps you can tell me how much personal investigation of the party and their candidates YOU have done?
You set the tone of these proceeddings with your accusations of anyone who disagrees must be blind..., so if you don't like them now, you have only yourself (and Sarh Palin) to blem.
And your evidence (other than personal bias)?
@keepontryin there have been death threats and these two politicians as well as Gabby are/were on this list? What more evidence could you possibly need to see a connection?
I have no more bias than you and would not want to believe there is a connection but what I see is a pattern and a connection.
C'mon with "the left" that is getting so completely absurd. There is no "the left" there is however a completely obvious list/map and there has been an actual assassination attempt on one of the people on this list/map and there have been death threats against at least two others. Please remove the party line rhetoric and see facts as what they are.
1. There is such a list/map
2. There has been an attempted assassination. (pending actual)
3. There have been more death threats.
No one needs "A vast right wing conspiracy" or "the liberal left" to cloud this issue and cloud the facts. There is a plain and simple connection.
To claim that there is no connection because Palin has not been found guilty of conspiracy in a court of law is patently absurd. We will never know the answer to a connection like this to a legal standard of beyond a reasonable doubt; and, even if it was shown that there was a direct connection that would not be enough for a court to convict someone for political speech, no matter how hateful. But, if anyone looks dispassionately at the evidence they will see the right wing demagoguery as inextricably connected with the subsequent violence.
I should be more clear. Has there been evidence presented in court or by law enforcement (other than the Democrtic sheriffs "Opinion") officials? Just one shred of evidence tying them together?
Believe me, i'm no Palin fan. I'm no Republican fan. But I am a former Beltway insider.
And I'm Jewish--as is Rep Giffords. And I've survived several Traumatic Brain injuries myself.
So on several levels, I know of what I speak.
And while I've lost some abilities, my ability to reason and debate is still intact--in fact, it's sharper. So let's think through this rationally: A former US Governor and former and possible future candidate for President of The United States, a FOX News mouthpiece and a reality-show publicity...seeker... putting a hit out on a Member of The United States Congress? Besides the Federal crimes Loughner could be accused for, you'll note that in these TWO Arizona cases I came across, there are aggravating factors that push murder to aggravated murder, namely in State v. Knapp (Knapp I), "Heinous, Cruel or Depraved" (exactly as it sounds--read the summary) and in State v. Holsinger, "Procurement of Murder by Payment." (aka "putting a hit out on someone," as I read this) and "Grave Risk of Death to Others" (looks like catching innocent bystanders and not the intended target. I'm no attorney but I will bet max, all chips in that Sarah Palin isn't about to take a needle for several counts of one or two of these state crimes for the terrible tragedy that occurred.
Because she had nothing to do with it. Read the cases I read:
"State v. Knapp (Knapp I), 114 Ariz. 531, 562 P.2d 704 (1977)
"PROCEDURAL POSTURE: The defendant was convicted in Superior Court (Maricopa) of two counts of first-degree murder and was sentenced to death on each count. This is the defendant's automatic, direct appeal to the Arizona Supreme Court.
"AGGRAVATING CIRCUMSTANCES:
"(F)(6) (Heinous, Cruel or Depraved) - UPHELD
The Court attempted for the first time to define the terms "heinous, cruel or depraved," stating that those terms "have meanings that are clear to a person of average intelligence and understanding." 114 Ariz. at 543. Cruel means "disposed to inflict pain esp. in a wanton, insensate or vindictive manner: sadistic." Id. Heinous means "hatefully or shockingly evil: grossly bad." Id. Depraved means "marked by debasement, corruption, perversion or deterioration." Id. The Court found that the facts of this case fall squarely within the meaning of "heinous, cruel or depraved," but did not separate the facts supporting cruelty from the facts supporting heinousness or depravity. The facts supporting the entire finding were that the defendant poured fuel in great quantity around the room that his two infant daughters were sleeping in, stood in the doorway and threw a lighted match into the room, then went to bed to lie down while the children burned. The medical evidence demonstrated that the cause of death was incineration and not just carbon monoxide poisoning. "We can hardly think of a more ghastly death than this for anyone." Id.
"MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES:
"None sufficiently substantial to call for leniency. The defendant did not prove the existence of the (G)(2) mitigating circumstance of "unusual and substantial duress." Although the state argued that a possible motive for the crime was the defendant's fear that his wife was going to leave him, that evidence was insufficient to establish duress as a mitigating circumstance.
JUDGMENT: Convictions and sentences affirmed.
"State v. Holsinger, 115 Ariz. 89, 563 P.2d 888 (1977)
"PROCEDURAL POSTURE: The defendant was convicted in Superior Court (Maricopa) of first-degree murder, conspiracy to commit murder, burglary, and conspiracy to commit burglary. The defendant was sentenced to death on the murder count and to prison on the noncapital counts. This is his automatic appeal to the Arizona Supreme Court.
"AGGRAVATING CIRCUMSTANCES:
"(F)(3) (Grave Risk of Death to Others) - UPHELD
The (F)(3) finding was upheld without discussion. The defendant solicited a codefendant to enter the house of Dr. Harry Schornick. Dr. Schornick was wounded, but not killed. Dr. Schornick's housekeeper was shot and killed.
"(F)(4) (Procurement of Murder by Payment) - UPHELD
This aggravating circumstance was upheld without discussion. The evidence established that the defendant conspired with several other people to cause the death of Dr. Harry Schornick. The defendant hired another person to kill the victim so that the defendant's wife would eventually inherit some money held in joint tenancy between the victim and the defendant's mother-in-law. He expressed this motive to coconspirators and gave information to them about how to commit the crime. He furnished the murder weapon and advised the others that they would receive something of value for committing the crime and gave them money and drugs the evening of the crime. The actual intended victim was wounded and his housekeeper was shot and killed.
"(F)(5) (Pecuniary Gain) - UPHELD
This aggravating circumstance was upheld without discussion. See facts described above.
"MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES:
"The Court noted, without further discussion, that none of the statutory mitigating circumstances existed. In addition, the sentencing disparity between the defendant's death sentence and his codefendant's life sentence was not mitigating because the codefendant's participation was relatively minor when compared to that of the defendant.
"JUDGMENT: Convictions and sentences affirmed."
And I haven't even gotten to the Federal crimes--I don't need to. This should be enough.
Are you kidding me? That people ARE saying Palin had anything to do with it baffles me.
Now, what I WILL give Sarah Palin credit for is one of a few things: lack of knowledge or poor management skills, perhaps discriminatory hiring practices or worse yet, insensitivity and/or revenge,
And I am not saying any of these DO exist. But they are possible reasons why the release of her soliloquy video containing the term "blood libel" was released the weekend following the incident:
Here are POSSIBLE explanations for such a slip-up for someone who has any aspirations of living in the 1600 block of Pennsylvania Avenue NW in DC. There is only one building there...a big, White House.
lack of knowledge: she had no idea that "blood libel" referred to Jews in Nazi Germany;
poor management skills: A staffer put it in there deliberately.
perhaps discriminatory hiring practices: Maybe there's not a bagel in the bunch at Camp Palin
insensitivity: She possibly knew what it meant but used it anyway because she knew it would get her face on TV even more.
and/or revenge: tired of the media picking on her family, though they provide so much mindless entertainment, and wanted to shift the blame and/or focus off herself.
How's that workin' for ya?
Once again, let me expressly say that I have no idea what happened with that video and that it's all speculation. I'm not saying any of it DID or DIDN'T happen.
What I AM saying is that if one were to take a rational look at how exposed Palin is and the fact that she's possibly going to run in 2012, I believe it it is highly far-fetched, at best, to think she had any involvement in the incident in Tucson.
Are there idiots going off that map that was immediately pulled off her website? (Why?) Sure. Will there be copycats? Possible. Have things like this made it even more difficult for the average American to ever meet the person form they voted? You bet.
ARIZONA CAPITAL SENTENCING GUIDE CASE SUMMARIES
http://www.supreme.state.az.us/courtserv/crtproj/capsentguid/page39.htm
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M$
You can leave an optional "tip" with Mahalo's virtual currency, Mahalo Dollars. If you are asking a difficult question that might require some research, or if you'd like a wide variety of feedback, a higher tip often leads to more answers to your question.
M$
I didn't watch the video until just now, well after I answered and commented.
To suggest that the guy in the video is planting the seed for something that could get someone the death penalty--because plenty of others have already lost their lives--is absolutely, completely, totally undeniably ridiculous.
People commit crimes for different reasons...the assertion is ludicrous.
And Camp Palin's removal of the map from her site, coupled with the explanation that those weren't rifle sights but markers for districts (I think I saw that on Anderson Cooper's show on CNN)...come on. Have you never seen this photo or one like it?