When and how will we achieve peace between Israel and its enemies?
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M$15 Answers
I always read about the things mentioned so all i have is feelings. Like how can their ever be peace in such a hostile environment? It reminds me of the bullies on my playground. Some of them were pretty tough i guess or so i thought because i was not used to fighting. when i won my first wrestling state championship, i guess i wasn't afraid anymore, so when the school bully and his friends surrounded a friend of mine taking shots at him, i stepped in and beat the bully to a pulp. I know you said here that basically, you are eliminating hostile and military options. That makes absolutely no sense to me so i can only assume, you are talking about comments making a parking lot out of these places. i take it serious, just as i stood on that playground and took it serious. there was no peace on the playground until the bully was removed and it took a lot of help from a friend that was not really bigger, but better. i think about that a lot and got in trouble with my parents, the school, and a screaming mother because i had left marks on another child. that is kind of what we are seeing here. to go back in time, what could i have done differently because the violence had escalated quickly. my friend got hurt and i stepped in, kind of like what we are seeing now. i don't support aggression, but it is what we are seeing here.
So to eliminate a hostile answer, i think the world should stand up and support Israel with more than just words, but actual and real support. imagine if you were surrounded with people taking shots at you. in America, we are somewhat free to think and my final answer lies upon establishing a bigger, better, and broader peace citizenship initiative. The world shouldn't solely lie upon paid leadership. Neither should the opposing side. I don't think that either side can disagree with leadership from within anyway. That is what we are supposed to do, but as i read about a new leader that would be taking the world stage last week, i had strong feelings that this is exactly what world leadership has become and that is a career with very little support and volunteer groups with very few members and only 6% type support in some of these Arab states. the Coalitions have become political as well, instead of being led by the people. so i could easily pass off an answer as political saying that education and awareness should be raised on these playgrounds with peace units, but really, it is citizenship units that must take control. Until this idea is developed, then the world will never be free of aggression, nor will the real definition of aggression ever come to light. support from political leadership is there to help us. the citizens are what control the leadership, not the leaders. every CEO in the world is controlled by his customers and to some extent, his employees. so why are countries and the world stage any different. success will always come from within and in a graceful way. the Peace Citizens might be a way to accomplish this. Call it a World Union of the People.
PeaceCiti - The Largest City on Earth
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M$
As to how that can happen, well, if anyone can tell you that, there's a nobel peace prize waiting for him.
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M$But I can only say that permanent peace can be achieved only when man understands that war and violence is not the answer. But I don't think that will happen ever.
Thanks
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M$
Thanks for your honesty. I am glad, in a way, that you answered as you did, because I am looking for non-political, non-military solutions. Obviously these solutions have failed for more than 1,000's of years. THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF FAILURE! Think about it. It's time for more creative solutions that strike at the core of hatred between people and their nations. So, to the rest of you, I would encourage thinking along these lines. How can we reduce or eliminate the hate?
For those of you who have offered political/military/geographical solutions, thank you. It's a start. But I would encourage you to go back and dig deeper.
I'm talking about creating REAL peace. Let's do it!
We pretty much only have one shot at answering a question on Mahalo. At this point, we can't go back and modify our answers.
WHEN WILL THERE BE PEACE?
By war, agreements, negotiations, etc. - likely never. The reason is outlined in Jeremiah 10:23 which in essense says: Man was never created to rule himself. Ask your dog to mow the lawn or your cat to fix your computer, and you'll find they can't. They weren't designed to do so. Likewise, we weren't designed with the know-how to rule ourselves or make good decisions in that regard. So adult leaders tend to bicker and fight, allowing selfishness, greed and mixed-up priorities to dominate - similar traits to that of a young child. Like a young child, they simply don't know how to move past the issues.
HOW WILL THERE BE PEACE?
Our creator long promised that after allowing human rule for a period of time (now some 6,000 years), showing that man simply cannot rule himself, he would step in. Daniel 2:44 explains that he will "crush and put an end" to existing governments - all of which ignore his laws and directions - and establish his own government or kingdom under his son, Christ Jesus. That kingdom will bring in global peace and many other benefits.
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M$If Israel could separate the two groups we would have peace. The success of the many Arab Israelis proves that this is possible. Israeli Arabs have full citizenship rights, can vote, and serve in the Knesset.
The day we see Palestinians in Gaza fighting against Hamas and publicly condemning the use of suicide bombers instead of glorifying them we will have a chance at peace. Many of the rallies worldwide show that their mindset of the West has not changed recently. Celebrations in the street on 9/11 and praising suicide bombers teaches the next generation the wrong values and this also needs to be addressed before peace can be attained.
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M$
It is disputable whether the blockades are the proximate cause of the poverty and hunger. On the one hand the blockades prevent the Palestinians from entering into Israel to work, but on the other hand Hamas intercepts aid and corruption is rampant. As for military control, the IDF left Gaza years ago and it didn't help anything.
Even still, I believe that moderate Palestinians can overcome any grudge they may have against the Israelis for locking them in Gaza considering they know that Hamas' actions left Israel with no other viable choice. Consider what would happen if you were on a cruise ship and one person was found to have a highly contagious disease. It would be reasonable to quarantine even the visibly healthy while the sick are treated. I am not trying to make a comparison between Hamas and a disease by the way, just trying to illustrate how a healthy passenger might feel towards the "captors" that put him in quarantine.
I think your answer provides a partial solution, but doesn't answer the question of how? How would you encourage the palestinians to speak out against hamas? and, furthermore, how do you bring the two sides together and eliminate the hate? I would encourage you to see my comment to Varunnagwekar below.
I suppose it might be debatable as to whether the effect is large, but it is certain that the Israeli blockades are perceived to have some effect on the Quality of Life in Gaza (and elsewhere).
Being thought of as a "tormentor of innocents" doesn't exactly engender good will and serve to encourage even moderates to come to the table.
The Israeli blockades and military control which force Palestinians into abject poverty, hunger, and humiliation may not have the same instant effect as a launched rocket, but the ill-will and ultimate effects are basically the same.
So, I'm not sure how simple removal of radical elements of the Palestinian faction addresses the problems already caused by the economic warfare.
He should get tough with Israel.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/177716
Obstacles to peace between Israel and Syria
http://www.redress.btinternet.co.uk/uavnery176.htm
Can We Achieve Peace in the Middle East
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul363.html
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M$
For Israel to even begin to seek peace, it would have to end it's original battle. The conflict between the Jews, Christians and the Muslims, is much more serious than just disagreeing on Religion.
It began in Genesis 16 when God made His Covenant with Abraham's son Isaac, and in essence, sent the half-brother Ishmael on his merry way to become "a great nation" (the present day Arabs, most of whom are Muslim).
It was the title deed to the land of Israel, which God promised to Abraham's lineage, that has been the source of the friction between the Jews and the Arabs right up to the present day.
If one believes that the Old and New Testaments were written under the inspiration of the Spirit of God, then there is no question that Israel is the Promised Land of the Jews.
However, Muslims believe the Jews changed and distorted the Bible in order to establish themselves as the heirs of Abraham's Covenant blessings.
This jealousy and resentment created an unparalleled hate which has set off wars and atrocities for four thousand years. In essence... the arguments and the conflict continue, while people die.
To encourage peace... for those involved, I think they need to find a solution that recognizes each side’s existence, openly reject terrorism, promote democratic values and increase economic development.
For those of us not caught in battle, I guess we need to learn more about that part of the world, to ask questions of our government representatives, to consider our faith position when we vote, to question what we view on the media and network news, and to question economic decisions which might in some way impact this conflict.
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M$You can leave an optional "tip" with Mahalo's virtual currency, Mahalo Dollars. If you are asking a difficult question that might require some research, or if you'd like a wide variety of feedback, a higher tip often leads to more answers to your question.
M$Israel should then force them to emigrate either somewhere in the Arab world or in the West. Other countries might not be totally happy to get Palestinians, however if they each bring in a couple of hundred thousand dollars, may be they will be happier.
This is a positive solution instead of spending all the money on arms that are destructive. If the Palestinians refuse to take either choice they go to jail...
This is not a new idea. Some interpret the Bible as predicting that a larger Israel will soon exist going North from the Nile to South of the Euphrates, and will swallow all the territories mentioned. This is especially the interpretation of a movement called British Israelism. There may be real Scripture to back this up. See: http://www.britam.org/
* See "cause the evil beasts (their enemies who prey upon them to devour them) to cease out of the land: and they shall dwell safely... And they shall no more be a prey to the nations... but they shall dwell safely, and none shall make them afraid" (Ezekiel 34.25/28)
* "I am with thee, saith the Lord, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished" (Jeremiah 30.11)
4 Gaza will be abandoned
and Ashkelon left in ruins.
At midday Ashdod will be emptied
and Ekron uprooted.
5 Woe to you who live by the sea,
O Kerethite people;
the word of the LORD is against you,
O Canaan, land of the Philistines.
"I will destroy you,
and none will be left."
6 The land by the sea, where the Kerethites a dwell,
will be a place for shepherds and sheep pens.
7 It will belong to the remnant of the house of Judah;
there they will find pasture.
In the evening they will lie down
in the houses of Ashkelon.
The LORD their God will care for them;
he will restore their fortunes. b
Against Moab and Ammon
8 "I have heard the insults of Moab
and the taunts of the Ammonites,
who insulted my people
and made threats against their land.
9 Therefore, as surely as I live,"
declares the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel,
"surely Moab will become like Sodom,
the Ammonites like Gomorrah—
a place of weeds and salt pits,
a wasteland forever.
The remnant of my people will plunder them;
the survivors of my nation will inherit their land."
10 This is what they will get in return for their pride,
for insulting and mocking the people of the LORD Almighty.
11 The LORD will be awesome to them
when he destroys all the gods of the land.
The nations on every shore will worship him,
every one in its own land.
Against Cush
12 "You too, O Cushites, c
will be slain by my sword."
Against Assyria
13 He will stretch out his hand against the north
and destroy Assyria,
leaving Nineveh utterly desolate
and dry as the desert.
14 Flocks and herds will lie down there,
creatures of every kind.
The desert owl and the screech owl
will roost on her columns.
Their calls will echo through the windows,
rubble will be in the doorways,
the beams of cedar will be exposed.
15 This is the carefree city
that lived in safety.
She said to herself,
"I am, and there is none besides me."
What a ruin she has become,
a lair for wild beasts!
All who pass by her scoff
and shake their fists.
Zephaniah 2:3-15 NIV
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M$.jpg){kind=small}
The Branch From Jesse
1 A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse;
from his roots a Branch will bear fruit.
2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him—
the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding,
the Spirit of counsel and of power,
the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD -
3 and he will delight in the fear of the LORD.
He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes,
or decide by what he hears with his ears;
4 but with righteousness he will judge the needy,
with justice he will give decisions for the poor of the earth.
He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth;
with the breath of his lips he will slay the wicked.
5 Righteousness will be his belt
and faithfulness the sash around his waist.
6 The wolf will live with the lamb,
the leopard will lie down with the goat,
the calf and the lion and the yearling [a] together;
and a little child will lead them.
7 The cow will feed with the bear,
their young will lie down together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox.
8 The infant will play near the hole of the cobra,
and the young child put his hand into the viper's nest.
9 They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,
for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD
as the waters cover the sea.
10 In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his place of rest will be glorious. 11 In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the remnant that is left of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, [b] from Cush, [c] from Elam, from Babylonia, [d] from Hamath and from the islands of the sea.
12 He will raise a banner for the nations
and gather the exiles of Israel;
he will assemble the scattered people of Judah
from the four quarters of the earth.
13 Ephraim's jealousy will vanish,
and Judah's enemies [e] will be cut off;
Ephraim will not be jealous of Judah,
nor Judah hostile toward Ephraim.
14 They will swoop down on the slopes of Philistia to the west;
together they will plunder the people to the east.
They will lay hands on Edom and Moab,
and the Ammonites will be subject to them.
15 The LORD will dry up
the gulf of the Egyptian sea;
with a scorching wind he will sweep his hand
over the Euphrates River. [f]
He will break it up into seven streams
so that men can cross over in sandals.
16 There will be a highway for the remnant of his people
that is left from Assyria,
as there was for Israel
when they came up from Egypt. (Isiah 11 - NIV)
The first and most important step is for true Muslim leadership to emerge in several Middle East countries (probably 4 or more). These leaders must denounce murder in all forms, pursue the murders themselves, and actively speak out equally against the murder of all humans, men & women, Muslims and Christians and Jews. Think Dr. Martin Luther King of Arabs/Muslims with political power.
Not one exists today as far as I can tell.
The second is for Israel to sequester the hardliners long enough to pull out/back militarily and allow the new Arab leadership to take care of the evil doers on their own.
#2 may be possible, but #1 is unlikely as I don't foresee Muslim Arab leaders publicly denouncing and pursuing Muslim radicals. Then again, who would have thought the USA would have a president named Obama in 2009?
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=muslim%20leaders%20denounce%20radic...
(check out that link and note the complete lack of outrage by Muslim leadership in news stories)
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M$
The Israeli prime minister, Ehud Olmert, said his country would have to withdraw from "almost all" the land it captured in the 1967 war and divide Jerusalem in order to agree long-awaited peace deals with the Palestinians and Syria.
------------
Sounds like a good place to start
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M$I do not buy the religious argument from either side as they both claim an all knowing, all powerful god who seems to have made (in thier eyes) a lot of mistakes (hence these religious do-gooders have to go about righting some of God's wrongs - things like making women beautiful, foreskins and fridays come to mind). So in my mind while they do all this in the name of thier God, they also show absolutely no faith in their gods either (this is a personal gripe and feel free to refute).
I think the real answer is good old evolution. Basically you can move with the times (i.e. grow up) or be consumed by the tide of evolution.
So I say time and evolution will resolve this problem and hopefully the rest of us can worry about REAL problems like a sustainable eco-system (for instance).
None
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M$You can't have enemies and also hope for peace. You must either embrace your enemies or eradicate them. Ceasefires are only temporary.
So there must be a compromise, so as to befriend the once-enemy nations they struggle with. If no compromise can be made, no peace.
I estimate that given the length of time Israel has been devoid of peace, it is not likely to see it in at least our lifetimes. Enough time has to pass for people to forget why they are fighting, or find that human life is worth more than a little piece of land, no matter how holy it is supposed to be.
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M$
I would hardly say that the UN has supported Israel. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel and scroll down to see how many times the resolution is condemning Israel. With the exception of the creation and recognition of the state of Israel, the UN hasn't really supported anything Israel has done in the last 60 years.
Correction from UN -> US noted. On that point I'll add that many people don't appreciate the strategic value that Israel gives the United States. The US isn't the smartest country out there, but they aren't protecting Israel just for the fun of it. Israel provides the US with technology, medicine, military training, and much more.
Meant U.S. Edited. Fixed. Done. Thanks for the quick refute, non-peace seekers. :)
Agree... it's not so much the UN that supports Israel, as it is the United States in particular which uses it's overwhelming veto power to stand between Israel and the other nations of the UN.
Well, I am sure many great minds, peace activists and loftily-goaled politicians have considered this greatly, and for a great many years.
But since I am none of the above, I can only draw on my own experiences with trying to mediate children, family, employees. I realize that this not at all the same, as my experience does not involve open fire and bombings, young people lost in crossfire, peaceful citizens dead. Yet it is basically similar.
But I think at a basic level humans are all looking for the same things. We want safety, love, happiness and longevity. The issues between Israel and its enemies...and really any violent conflicting nations...result in pretty much none of the basic needs being met. They must realize that, yet continue to pursue their violent methods and believe they are operating within the best interest of their country's goals and future. Peaceful efforts to mediate have failed and result in more violence and death.
Israel has to realize that to achieve peace, they must be willing to compromise. Were they not just offered a ceasefire from Hamas and rejected it? How does a government that claims to want peace, when offered temporary reprieve, answer with violence?
"The Israeli Defence Minister today declared his country was in a war "to the bitter end" against Hamas in the Gaza Strip." - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5414551.ece
So back to basic mediation. I think that a temporary ceasefire should be re-instated so the top representatives/leaders from each country can remain in a room until they reach a compromise. They should be read names and shown pictures of all those innocent people who have died (from each country, not just Israel) to appeal to their humanity. They will not be allowed to leave until a complete agreement about land rights and
The compromise will be sanctified by the UN, and any country that violates it will be heavily sanctioned, or basically blockaded from trading with the rest of the world. Shunned is the best word I can think of to describe it.
Is it juvenile and basic? Certainly. Could it work? Maybe, maybe not. But it is something I don't think has been tried. And it works with my children. And that's kind of how I look at countries that use weapons to destroy each other. As children. That's often how I see our own nation. It's very sad that we have so much technology, and free thought. And still we have to kill each other to make a point.
I think you are right. So how can we shift the mindset on both sides? I would encourage you to see my comment to Varunnagwekar below.
Realistic diplomatic solutions might be based on the pre-1967 borders, as those have been the proposals that seem to have come closest to being at least entertained by both sides. As it stands though, there is far too much external aid for either side to compromise very much. So long as the US backs Israel so heavily, and the Palestinians have the sympathy of major Arab states ..... both sides will continue to play the role of expensive puppets in a global ideological struggle.
When there is an international accord on drastically reducing financial and military support being sent to Israel and the Palestinians (and sanctioning the countries that refuse to comply), perhaps the Israelis and Palestinians will feel a little less invulnerable and the extremist factions on both sides may find themselves a bit more open to compromise.
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M$
take what they got from britain and keep it!
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M$
I have answered this question, but personally, like your answer the best. :D
you are right. even a simple idea needs a lot of help so it is helpful to start with a good idea and build slowly. velocity builds a lot of errors. maybe i am not the right person to build onto such an idea. i certainly don't like neutrality. oh, i have millions of deeper ideas which turn into actions but sometimes they are strange, like what if the anti-christ were not something that is out there, like a person. what if it was simply something that was inside each and every one of us, like a percentage. maybe peace is a percentage. i think world class ideas start with something so simple that we take part in it, though in a way, it is also for each of us to determine. All to often, we start in with the solutions which in reality, are different for everybody. i can't even begin to write that on a comment. they are just feelings. inside of me lies many things, atheism, God, satan, and more important to the relevance of this case...peace. i actually associate peace with "grace". a person told me once that a lot of things can happen but if a marriage, people, culture, don't have a lot of grace, then no complex solution will ever work. while i think it is wonderful that we realize the world is this big connected construct; actually, i think it is the fundamental action items that are more important like grace. what educational class teaches that except maybe a church. it isn't really revealed much growing up or in high tension areas. the greatest action item of course is love so as Peace Citizens, i can't really say that we can walk into an area expressing love. That is kind of 60's i guess, i don't know, i am too young. i actually pick an educational solution. i might glance at some of the other answers to see what people are saying but i don't read very well. education is more than tools, it is building the necessary framework into the institutions from which people thrive so that those cultures can not only survive, but succeed. that takes a heck of a lot more than a noble effort or awareness. ideas are definitely the currency of this century, but currency is only a matter of exchange. the solution is that in which nobody is left out. gov't, people, children, enemies, etc. i never have understood why certain cultures are not called out for goodness. instead we live in a world without grace. i don't know Carl Sagan at all, but as a child, he told me it was our duty to protect a world that can be saved by grace so i guess in a way, it is also his idea. i don't see why nuclear cold war solutions can't be applied and outfitted to todays world. it isn't the first time we have approached such worldwide concerns. the only difference is that this time, war should not be the focal point. the focal point should be citizenship.
While some of what you've written (above and below) is a little murky, I do agree with your basic premise that ordinary Citizens+Peace, organized in a powerful way, can overcome the hatred that exists in the middle east and beyond. We have come part of the way in mobilizing global forces against smaller tasks using online tools. I believe that, with time, we can find innovative ways to mobilize against this challenge as well. Please save your $10 for a bottle of champagne in peaceful times. Thanks!
great ideas. i like your thinking and agree. a couple things:
1) Take one bully away and another will emerge.
2) What actionable solutions can you propose for empowering Peace Citizens?
I would encourage you to see my comment to Varunnagwekar below.