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3 years, 1 month ago via Twitter

What non biblical original source material is there on Jesus? I believe he is referenced by Pliny. Source and links if possible

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west43rd | 3 years, 1 month ago view on twitter
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Below is a pretty good reference list of all non-biblical New Testament references, including both references to the events of Jesus' life as well as the events of his followers. It includes the specific quoted mentions for each of the references.

The source is a Christian organization, but the list looks to be fairly unbiased in its presentation and use. Their own reference materials are solid works that I am familiar with.

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west43rd | 3 years, 1 month ago Report

Quite possibly could be wrong! I don't claim to be super knowledgeable on the subject or even a convinced believer. I just know where to look for the info, having dealt with some of this material before.

Good luck with whatever you working on!

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voradams | 3 years, 1 month ago Report

Interesting page. I am suppressed that the Piny the Younger reference is different to what I remember.It could be my mistake. Thanks

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tboz | 3 years, 1 month ago view on twitter
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sounds like you are looking for non-religious texts that mention jesus, so quran aside, while many christians claim there are four or so non-biblical references to jesus there are actually no texts mentioning Jesus by that name, there are only references by ceaser and a few others that mention christ the anointed one, which is debateable whether or not that is refering to the biblical christ or just a general term for "anointed one" which was used liberally during that time, seeing as ceaser also claimed he was the son of god this use of the word the "annointed one" probably was not refering to the biblical jesus. Most non-religious biblical historians are in agreement that over a hundred biblical stories also have almost identical stories in the religions of ancient egypt and were probably assimilated into the jewish culture and spread during the mass exidus reffered to in the bible. Studies in comparitve religion have found identical stories to the birth and 3 day resurection in over 40 separate non-christian cultural and religious traditions, most notably hinduism, if you are looking for references to jesus read about Osirus and some of the egyptian stories and you will be amazed at how identical the stories are. historians of comparitive religion and mythology such as joseph campell have traced back the biblical stories even further back than ancient egypt, where names of biblical figures probably represented the astrological myths of the time, the 12 zodiac signs comparing to the 12 apostles and the birth and resurection having to do with the birth and resurection of the actual sun in the sky during the equinox. This is a fascinating subject, most scholars agree that the bible is not an historic acount but a group of tradidtional stories having their roots in prehistoric times. We have yet to find a reference to Jesus not in the bible, refering to jesus as Christ (or the annointed one) did not come until much later. so finding the word christ should not be misunderstood as a reference to Jesus.

The subject you might research is comparitive religion....once you see how may religions have the exact same stories you will be convinced that these are some pretty ancient stories that go back even before ancient egypt to tribal africa.

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johnsonaaron | 3 years, 1 month ago Report

You cite no sources, I have no confidence in your answer.

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johnsonaaron | 3 years, 1 month ago Report

My comments do not appear, can you see them?

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voradams | 3 years, 1 month ago Report

I believe the reference I was thinking was a throw away line in a Roman history, and you are correct, Jesus would not be mentioned by name.

The issue (and while I honor the Koran as a religious text, I am looking for secular text). The goal here is see what the Roman and Greeks and Kingdom of Judea sources (primary or referred to by contemporary or near contempory sources).

This may be a forlorn hope. I would like to find the reference I can remember.

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johnsonaaron | 3 years, 1 month ago Report

You cite no sources sir....

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maurice | 3 years, 1 month ago view on twitter
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These may be helpful:

1) There is the Gospel of Thomas, which scholars now think predate the Biblical Gospels. An earlier view (still held by other scholars) is that this "gospel" wasn't written until the late 2nd or 3rd century CE.

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl_thomas.htm

2) The writings of Josephus (well regarded Jewish historian who was born shortly after Jesus' execution). These writings contain two references to Jesus:

http://www.bede.org.uk/Josephus.htm

3) Other Gnostic Gospels - 52 texts discovered in Egypt in 1945:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/story/pagels.html

4) The Dead Sea Scrolls, while making no reference to Jesus, apparently offer a historical view of the era in which he lived:

http://biblicalstudies.info/top10/schoville.htm
http://www.ibiblio.org/expo/deadsea.scrolls.exhibit/intro.html

PBS Frontline had a series on this topic: "From Jesus to Christ"

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/
images:

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albanian | 3 years, 1 month ago Report

It should be noted that Josephus, the only non-Christian near-contemporary source, is not known from an original manuscript but only ones that have clearly been tampered with by interpolations by Christian scribes, which your source does go into in some detail.

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nadiraziz | 3 years, 1 month ago view on twitter
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I would say the most 'original' non-Biblical source material on Jesus Christ would be the Quran.

http://i32.tinypic.com/2roktc9.jpg

In the Qur'an, stories about the life and teachings of Jesus Christ (called 'Isa in Arabic) are abundant. The Qur'an recalls his miraculous birth, his teachings, the miracles he performed by God's permission, and his life as a respected prophet of God. The Qur'an also repeatedly reminds us that Jesus was a human prophet sent by God, not part of God Himself.

Jesus in Islam (Arabic: `Īsā) is a messenger of God who had been sent to guide the Children of Israel with a new scripture, the Injīl (gospel). The Qur'an, believed by Muslims to be God's final revelation, states that Jesus was born to Mary (Arabic: Maryam) as the result of virginal conception, a miraculous event which occurred by the decree of God. To aid him in his quest, Jesus was given the ability to perform miracles, all by the permission of God. According to Islamic texts, Jesus was neither killed nor crucified, but rather he was raised alive up to heaven.

http://www.dar-us-salam.com/images/large/R22-JesusInQuran.jpg

Refer to the Quranic verses as follows:

"Behold! the angels said, 'Oh Mary! God gives you glad tidings of a Word from Him. His name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter, and in (the company of) those nearest to God. He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. He shall be (in the company) of the righteous... And God will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel'" (3:45-48).

"He Jesus said: 'I am indeed a servant of God. He has given me revelation and made me a prophet; He has made me blessed wheresoever I be; and He has enjoined on me prayer and charity as long as I live. He has made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable. So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)!' Such was Jesus the son of Mary. It is a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute. It is not befitting to (the majesty of) God that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it, 'Be,' and it is" (19:30-35).

"When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: 'Now I have come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which you dispute. Therefore, fear God and obey me. God, He is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him -- this is a Straight Way.' But sects from among themselves fell into disagreement. So woe to the wrongdoers, from the penalty of a Grievous Day!" (43:63-65)

"And behold! God will say on the Day of Judgment: 'Oh Jesus, the son of Mary! Did you say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God?' He will say: 'Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would indeed have known it. You know what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Yours. For You know in full all that is hidden. Never did I say to them anything except what You commanded me to say: 'Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I lived among them. When You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a witness to all things'" (5:116-117).

"Christ, the son of Mary, was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how God makes His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!" (5:75).

http://www.dialogue-international.org/wp-content/themes/mimbo2.1/images/Quran.jpg

The Quran tells us many wonderful things about Jesus. As a result, believers in the Quran love Jesus, honor him and believe in him. In fact, no Muslim can be a Muslim unless he or she believes in Jesus, on whom be peace. The Quran says that Jesus was born of a virgin, that he spoke while he was still only a baby, that he healed the blind and the leper by God's leave and that he raised the dead by God's leave.

The Qur’an tells us that Jesus came to teach the same basic message which was taught by previous prophets from God—that we must shun every false god and worship only the one true God. Jesus taught that he is the servant and messenger of that one true God, the God of Abraham.

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voradams | 3 years, 1 month ago Report

The Koran (I use the anglasised name here) was written after the events. What I am looking for is something like "There was this jewish religious person who was executed during the reign of Ceasar XXXXX. Jesus, or his aramaic name, will most likely not be used.

albanian's Avatar
albanian | 3 years, 1 month ago Report

The Koran was written about 600 years later and is therefor not an original source. Copies of the Christian bible were widespread by this time.

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cochese | 3 years, 1 month ago Report

Hmmm, Perhaps my comment wasn't submitted. My problem with this answer isn't Islam. Isa (Jesus) is particularly potent in Islamic eschatology. My issue is that the questioner is looking for original source material, as in material from around the time of Christ, not 600 years after he died.

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cochese | 3 years, 1 month ago Report

While Isa in the Qur'an (Jesus) is a veritable badass, the asker is looking for original source material. Considering that the Qur'an wasn't written until 600 years after Jesus, you can't really consider it source material.

albanian's Avatar
albanian | 3 years, 1 month ago Report

The question asked for original source material. The Qur'an dates from hundreds of years later.

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