What happened to the freedom in this country
Michigan state law says you can't have any tint at all except for the top 4 inches of the front windows. that law from what i have seen has not been enforced at all. i have gone down side streets were in a half mile stretch there are 5-8 cars in front on the street or drive way with tinted windows and from my front steps i can see 5 cars on my block and the block next to me with dark windows not counting mine on a good day. are tinted windows on a car really that bad and "dangerous" for police when the driver has a clean driving record, no accidents, and no criminal record and until now was pretty courteous to police.
there people with guns in schools, public suicides are now common place, and robberies and shootings happen every day, and the police are worried about making 100$ from a quick ticket from some one that hasn't had a problem with the law in years.
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M$11 Answers
According to Michigan City Police Sgt. Chris Yagelski, Michigan City motorists were issued a total of 131 citations for tinted windows in 2008, up from 99 in 2007.
Yagelski says the main reason behind the tinted window rule is to protect officers' safety.
"It's not to punish children, and every teenager thinks it is, but it's not," Yagelski said. "As we approach a vehicle in the day or nighttime, you have to be able to see all occupants of the vehicle. If you can't, the windows are too dark."
If the officer can't see all occupants in the vehicle, Yagelski said, then the officer can't tell if any of the occupants are dangerous, wanted or are possibly carrying a weapon.
The Michigan City Police Department offers free testing for anyone wondering if their tinted windows are legal, Yagelski said. He encourages anyone who has doubt to get the test done.
Getting caught with illegally-tinted windows may be costly. According to Superior Court 4 clerk Debbie McKee, tickets for violating Indiana Code on the matter run at $135 these days. If you don't pay by the date as seen on the bottom of the ticket, that fee could rise to $175.
Yagelski said there have been situations where occupants of a vehicle were dangerous, and police officers didn't know it because the windows were tinted too dark.
"It's a scary feeling when you're walking up to a car at 3 a.m., and it's a dark vehicle with dark windows," Yagelski said. "You just don't know."
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M$You have plenty of freedom. If you have such issue with the laws where you currently live, have you considered moving? There are no tint laws where I live because we have virtually no crime. But I highly doubt you would want to live here.
As has already been mentioned, tint laws are put in place for the safety of police officers and others. Which is more important: potentially saving lives or someone being able to have whatever tint they want?
Think beyond yourself for a bit.
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M$
@demanda "Just be honest- you want it because you think it looks cool".
yea it does look cool but after driving for the last 2 years with it there are more benefits other then just looking cool, your dash doesn't get destroyed from the sun(remember this truck sits out side 24/7) the car is a lot cooler after sitting in the sun. when your driving in a bad neighborhood no one walks up to the car late at nite(i had that happen at 9pm in Detroit alone a guy walked right up to the car at a light and pulled the door handle luckly the doors lock once your in gear) someone driving with there high beams on behind you or badly adjusted headlights that shine to high and hit your side mirrors the light is dimmed just like in higher end cars on the rear view mirrors.
so what happens if i make a turn and the sun goes from in front/behind of me to the side and as i reach for sun glasses or move my visor i hit some one and kill them or injure them because im trying to make it easer for me to drive and not have the sun in my eyes again. so putting tint on a car all of a sudden makes me a convicted felon with a gun thats going to shot a cop, NO if some one is dumb enough to shot at a cop is going to do it tinted windows or not. why not make the law that its a 100$ fine for not having tinted windows lowered when your pulled over.
really, is window tint that important? I've never had it (other than what comes standard on my car), and I've never had a problem or an accident caused by reaching for my sunglasses. Neither have most of the people in the country. To be honest, you're sounding very self-centered. Don't make excuses like you want it so the sun doesn't get into your eyes. Just be honest- you want it because you think it looks cool.
And no, putting tint does not make you someone who is going to "shot a cop." It's called a safety precaution...like stop signs and things of that nature. should we do away with those too? I'm jealous you have enough time on your hands to worry about such superficial stuff. I remember those days. That's all I have to say about that.
Having an accident bc you are fishing for sunglasses is just the fault of your own negligence! Use a defense like that and you'll be laughed out of court.
When I was on Grand Jury duty, one of the things I learned was that DC has a much more restrictive law than neighboring states, (MD and VA). Also, police would use this to pull over cars when their interest was in something else entirely.
I think it's pretty easy for someone to think this is legal, get the tint applied in one place, then be pulled over somewhere else and end up paying a fine.
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M$
I had the same thing happen I had a bright red Camaro with illegal dark tinted windows I drove it that way for 2 years without getting sited.
Guess what I got sited and a fix it ticket. I fixed it and removed the tint cleaned up the ticket and put the tint right back on.
I knew the first and the second time that the windows were illegal in my state Did I know I could get caught...Yea.....But I was prepared for the consequences to my actions. ( I eventually sold the car Gas was killing me)
The way I see it is this way.
First off you probably got sited this time because.
A. You were in the wrong place at the wrong time and the cop was just not in the best of moods
OR
B. Just like any job there was probably a memo that came done to department from some higher up that decide for what ever reason that this law was being ignored and not being enforced therefore they enacted for the time being a zero tolerance policy
it probably was B
In any case
When you got the tinted windows there was a law against them...Right?
The basic premise is: if it is illegal and you still do it you will eventually get caught so be prepared to get caught.
Just because you were not sited for the windows for what 2 1/2 years didn't change the law or make it legal. Just because your neighbors have tinted windows does not change the law and they too will eventually get sited.
So how do you figure your freedom was taken away?
As I see it you never had the freedom to do this in the first place?
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M$
So how do you figure your freedom was taken away?
at one point there was no laws against tinted windows
"As I see it you never had the freedom to do this in the first place?" right thats the problem. you get a dui you can't drive, you have a felony you can't get a ccw, why is it tho you can't have tinted windows. yea do something dumb like commit a felony you lose some of your freedom, but its your own fault, how come your treated like a felony b/c you want to express your self with adding to the style of your car when you have never committed any crimes.
i guess my problem with this law is its not enforced if its for "officer safety" then give every single car with tinted windows a ticket. what there doing at the moment is using a law they don't enforce as a reason to give you a fine and get a quick 100$ coming in to a state with the highest unemployment rate. if you didn't enforce a law and let every one start to think its not illegal to have there windows tinted, when you need a quick pool of 10 or 20 people to make some profit for the week you don't have to look that far for a car with the windows done. i went out the other day and took pictures of cars with tinted windows, after looking at the time stamps on the pictures they were all with in 2-3 mins of each other and there was a few times with 2 pictures of 2 different cars with in a minute.
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M$You are not a good citizen, you are a scofflaw with a bad attitude. Since the offenses were minor, you can reform yourself without much effort. Just ask, am I obeying the law? If not, stop. Don't say everyone is doing it, that is not relevant.
As for changing the laws, write your representative or get active in politics. In these two cases you don't have much of an argument because laws against speeding and window tinting are good laws. But maybe you can find someone to vote for who thinks otherwise or even run yourself. It's a free country.
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M$
It does not matter whether they enforce it all the time or not. It does not matter what other people do. It is not relevant whether the police are doing a good job fighting other crime. If you know it is the law you should obey it. And if you don't and happen to get caught, you have no complaint coming and deserve no sympathy.
if its a safety thing why don't they crack down on it like seat belts. because then it would be done, instead they only hand out a few tickets here and there and most cops won't stop you just for tint because there busy with more important things as they should be. i have driven past plenty of seat belt checks were they slow every one down and flag the people off the road that don't have seat belts. its just like drug houses if they take them all out and there is no drug houses were they can go and make a bust after 4 or 5 years of someone selling drugs from the property there wouldn't be such a drug problem. yet they leave enough people to sell drugs so they can get others to start and replenish the amount of houses that the police and every one else know sell drugs. i wasn't complaining about the speeding ticket, i said ok what ever i was speeding so i paid the fine, what im mad about with this is they don't enforce it but rather leave it run so rampant that people do it because they don't see a problem when 1 of every 30 cars has tinted windows.
honestly if i just tinted them and the 5th cop i was driving next to down the road pulled me over ok fine charge me with a 100$ fine that i can't get out of but for 2 years, the car has been parked in my local police department parking lot for 30 mins before were i had cops tell me it looks good, yet some other cop feels its alright for him to take advantage of a law no one else enforces
But the real issue at hand is this. Laws exist for a reason. If you go back to the creation of any law, you will find logs of what legislators were debating about when they passed those laws. That is known as legislative intent. It seems to me that what the legislators had in mind was that while a reasonable amount of tint is ok for shading against the sun, too much can conceal the occupants of a vehicle.
The point of this law is obviously public safety and the safety of police officers. Why public safety? because that way you can see if a person is doing drugs in the car, drinking, armed, a wanted person, etc etc. It's a safeguard.
So you ask what happened to freedom? Freedom is not absolute. We give up a series of freedoms to live in an orderly society. We give up the freedom to murder each other and steal other people's property, and to run naked in the streets, in exchange for the protection and representation the state provides. It's basic political and legal theory and common sense.
If you don't like the law you have two choices, you can rally against it or move to another jurisdiction that doesn't have the laws. But whining about where the freedom went because you can't have tinted windows is inconsequential.
If you were telling me that you're concerned about civilian wiretapping then I'll listen. But it's been pretty much agreed on that the little freedom you give up by not tinting your windows is overshadowed by the potential social benefit of public safety.
Law school
Political science degree
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M$
thats the problem the law is nothing at all other then the top 4 inchs and i have seen 2 cars like that and its about the dumbest thing you could do to a car its like putting racing strips on a escort it looks dumb. the tint that i did isn't as dark as half the cars on the road have and with a sun roof letting light in all the time the tint is even lighter. you can see any movement in side the car but when i park for the nite to keep any one from just looking in and taking what they want i close the sun roof so you can't see in. in the past few months there have been armed robberies on my street and in the area. yet instead of trying to cut down crime police let known drug houses run because if theres no drug money being taken every now and then where are they going to get there money from. the police shouldn't be enticed with money why not give officers higher pay when there is less crime not more tickets being handed out.
Then top wasting your energy on Mahalo Answers. If you think the law is so dumb then write a petition and send it to the state legislature!
About your ticket though, how did you act when the officer approached? Sometimes when officers are making decisions about ticketing someone, attitude can play a big role in deciding whether or not to ticket the person.
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M$
He walked up to the window when i wasn't looking me and my dad were looking at the hours of the place that we wanted to go to but they closed 45 mins before we got there it being a 1 hr drive from my house to the store we were at. After he made contact i left the windows down and had both hands up on the window edge so he could see them with the motor off in 30 deg weather in a light hoodie. Im normally a really nice guy, i been doing computer work for a part time job for my self well going to collage and i have done a few free jobs for people that took all day b/c they were already having trouble paying rent they didn't need to give me 40$ for nothing but my time to fix a problem.
The officer was a state guy and he seemed like he couldn't be bothered to talk to us. he took my info walked to his car sat for 25 mins or so then came back handed me the ticket my info and said have a nice day. nothing about are there any drugs in the car, what are you doing here, nothing. he gave me the feeling like he had to leave because someone else was going to get a ticket with in 10 mins and he wanted to be the guy to wright them up too.
Personally, I think seat belt laws infringe on a person's freedom. People should be free to choose to wear one even if wearing seat belts is a good idea. If the seat belt lobby was really concerned about driver safety, they would be pushing for mandatory helmets. That would do a lot for driver safety. So why are we forced to wear seat belts and not helmets? It's because the insurance industry decided to champion seat belts and not helmets. So the laws are not about safety, but entirely based on money.
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M$
How are seatbelt laws not about safety. The state has a compelling interest in protecting citizen's safety
@gotspeed if you liked this answer, why did you rescind the tip?
finally some one that sees my side of this. there are to many laws that are solely for the revenue. for the most part a lot of cops realize that its a dumb reason to take some ones hard earned cash and don't bother you if you don't bother them. i wouldn't have a problem if the law wasn't so you could be pulled over just for tinted windows and given a ticket just for tinted windows. i could careless if some one in the car was smoking (wouldn't happen in my car tho lol) and a officer wanted to pull me over to see what the smoke was from be it a cig or weed. the other way would be add it on to a ticket for something else, ie you run a red light and because you have tinted windows there is another 100$ on the ticket. the idea tho that police are able to pull some one over minding there own business going down the road or in my case parked in a parking lot on private property because they have dark windows makes me feel like we have lost our rights as Americans.
Sorry if I'm sounding mean, but I was preparing to write an essay on how messed up our country is going to get in the next four years.
But to answer your question, the law for tinted windows does seem pointless at first. But it raises the question of whether or not you are hiding something. Tinting windows contributes nothing to a vehicle's visual appeal, or aesthetic factor. You still have your freedom. The cops just don't want to get the false impression that you are up to illegal activity.
Hope I helped; have a great day!
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M$
i could care less if i was searched every time i go out i don't do drugs i dont have a gun i dont drink and i have nothing to hide from the police. tinted windows protect the interior since the car sits out side year round. we have a 75 vet and a 96 impala in the garage so there is no room for my truck. and unless you have gotten use to it you wouldn't know how much safer it makes driving when the sun is on the sides below were the visors will cover. i can't stand driving our van or new trail blazer b/c the sun hitting my in the side of head is more dangerous then having window tint on windows that can be lowed and the interior be seen clearly. most of the time i drive with the windows down or atlest cracked at the top and a sun roof open. you can see the inside of the car with out a problem. to the point were you can count the stitching on the leather gear shifter down next to the seats .
And yes, the cops can be unfair many times. Especially with minorities. But questioning police activity usually worsens situations in the long run.
I think @gotspeed needs to get his priorities straight. He's willing to have his 4th Amendment Rights violated constantly but won't accept a tint law?
Maybe you should watch this.
http://www.tuccille.com/blog/2008/07/eight-reasons-even-innocent-shouldnt.html
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M$
Most crash fatalities result from the force of impact or from being thrown from the vehicle, not from being trapped. All studies show you are much more likely to survive a crash if you are buckled in. Ejected occupants are four times as likely to be killed as those who remain inside.
Yes, but what if the unthinkable happens and the car catches fire or plunges into a river? Being restrained actually increases the chances of escape from burning or submerged vehicles. Those not harnessed in get knocked around during the accident, often resulting in unconsciousness. And an unconscious accident victim has no chance of getting out of a burning or rapidly sinking car.
Virtually every study ever conducted indicates that lap and shoulder belts cut the risk of serious or fatal injury by 40 to 55%.
http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/seatbelt.asp
@demanda Absolutely. I've known people KILLED in car crashes and upon investigation you always hear the same thing: they would be alive today if they had been wearing a seatbelt.
@rabeye A friend and classmate of mine died because he wasn't wearing his seatbelt. How are seatbelt laws stupid if they save lives?
@gotspeed In order for laws to work they need to apply to everyone! Just because you think you are a good law-abiding citizen does not exempt you from the law!
Maybe you'll understand after you graduate high school and move to the real world.
But I'll give you another example. Say you constantly download pirated music. You know it's illegal but you've been doing it for 5 years without getting caught. And then bam! you get served with a citation. You know your friend Timmy downloads music too but he hasn't been caught.
That's what's called tough luck. You break the law you are EXPOSED to the consequences. Some people get away with it, others don't. Who said the world was fair? But it's how it works.
The point of laws is that their sole existence and the consequences of breaking them should make you think.. is it worth it to break this law? Yes or no? Do I kill my friend because he insulted my hair? No because I can get life in prison...
Do I park in the handicap space? Sure, I can afford the $500 ticket.
Different people make different decisions but expose themselves to the results. You broke the law, you got caught, pay for what you did. The End
if they apply to every one then why from my house i can see 3 cars today with tinted windows on my street. its a bull$hit law that is just for the money has nothing to do with public safety at all. there are county police cars with tinted windows why is it alright for a cop to be able to "hide" behind tinted windows and talk on a cell phone instead of doing his job. i wouldnt be so ticked off about this if the week after i did the tint i got pulled over ok. but this is 2 and a half years later the law didn't change its been the same law the whole time.
my dad is a uaw worker for gm if he didn't do part of his job for 2 and a half years he would be fired!!!! yet police enforce laws as they feel and when they need some more cash they give a few tickets that normally would just be a fix it (ie. take the tint off and not having to pay) not a 100$ that you can't do any thing about but pay. they need to enforce the law or remove it, not take advantage of people when they need money
i would under stand if i was a convicted felon and had other things on my record but i don't. why can't i a law biting citizen tint the windows on there car and get a little more privacy when the car is parked and the sun roof is closed and protect the car in the end making it last longer and more enjoyable and makes it safer driving on sunny days.
link: http://www.tintcenter.com/articles/bt_benefits.html
ps how could i find how many window tint tickets were given for Michigan state for the last few years? i found normal tickets and some citys have over 200% increase in a year, that sounds something fishy to me, you really think crime dubbed in a year or they just bumped up enforcement to make some more cash
The police officer is from Michigan City, Indiana, not Illinois, but that is not the point (I was not seeking to provide an answer that was Michigan specific). I provided the article for its content; a police officer's point of view on window tinting. I believe that his view is applicable regardless of jurisdiction.
tell me why all the city police in the area that i live even after asking them said they won't wright a ticket for tinted windows. its a waste of there time to wright a ticket just for windows. its not something hard to prove like downloading music(i don't download music even, my itunes has 283 songs in it all cd's i have bought in stores) and about graduating high school im almost 20 (grad hs in 07 at 17) and about to have my associates deg for computer electronics engineering technology. im trying to start my own business and i don't have the money to send it to some officer because he needs to have as many tickets as he can wright so he doesn't get layed off. on top of all this now my dad gets to get layed off for 5 weeks b/c half of the American public doesn't relies how much they screw up the American auto industry when they by that cheap Honda crap
Please learn to spell an capitalize! It will help you in business.
It seems you're going through a lot of issues and your anger may be misdirected. Maybe a better argument than how the law is unfair and your car will get damaged is to tell the judge that you simply can't afford to pay the fine. Then perhaps he'll take pity on you but probably only if you remove the tints.
@dumblonde but the ticket isn't marked so i can just remove it and not have to pay. i already have a court date for it and i wouldn't be so mad about this if i just did this last weekend and i got pulled over a few days later but i have had this for such a long time me and my dad were talking about redoing it b/c it had a few little scratches here and there on the inside and was starting to get little tiny holes the size of a . on it from being so long and getting so hot from the sun on it. now the economy goes down the tubes because of corporations messing up, and instead of going after the people that cause it the police crack down on people on the road to keep there pay check. or make the ticket 30$ not 100+ for nothing but tint. im not a big or violent person and don't really want to have to fight some guy thats trying to jump in the car at a light or watch someone scoping out my car in a parking lot when im not around.
Michigan state, not michigan city, il