What did you think about about Rep. Joe Wilson (R-SC) shouting "You lie!" at President Obama during his speech?
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M$11 Answers
Shouting down the president of the united states while he is delivering a speech is a great way to look like a jerk.
Had he posted a biting response to the speech with strong documentation he may have had a bigger impact while maintaining a high level of class. Instead people will look at this do 5+ seconds of research and decide if Obama is lying without the benefit of Rep Wilson's reasoning.
. . . personally I think this portion of the debate is laughable considering illegal immigrants can get tax paid benefits in an ER under our current system.
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M$You can leave an optional "tip" with Mahalo's virtual currency, Mahalo Dollars. If you are asking a difficult question that might require some research, or if you'd like a wide variety of feedback, a higher tip often leads to more answers to your question.
M$
I am a independent conservative that lives in oregon...I just want to say that i give Joe Wilson 2 thumbs up...First he had the courage to tell it as it really is and second even though it probably was the wrong time and wrong place for his thoughts, he also apologized to the president..So let's move on and forget about his comment, if it is that big of deal why don't we have Madam speaker apologize for calling us,( the AMERICAN PEOPLE that are agains't stealing from our CHILDREN and love our FREEDOM ) racists and the other people that have forgotten that they work for us the AMERICAN PEOPLE, they should apologize for saying that we are timothy mcvay wanna b's....I aploud you Mister Wilson and wish my Oregon Gov, would listen and learn...
what issue? if they agree with his actions?
Not precisely. The elected Republicans will pretend that the issue was settled by the apology; while the conservative radio hosts and bloggers will cheer him.
The American people elected President Obama and the Democratic majority in congress, that is fact based on the votes. Folks who claim to somehow be "the American People" are lying grandstanders or very confused. No apology to them is needed or desirable.
In that answer http://www.mahalo.com/answers/politics/how-can-we-encourage-a-civil-political-discussion-in-the-united-states I mentioned that the Republican Party had inherited the old Wallace and Thurmond supporters. The connection is even less abstract than I thought.It now turns out that this Wilson started out in politics as one of Thurmond's aides. Wilson is in the same tradition as another South Carolina Congressman Preston S. Brooks, whose infamous violence caning Senator Sumner typified the build up to the Civil War. The party of Lincoln has degenerated into the party of the Dixiecrats.
They will regard the issue as being one of rudeness and inappropriateness in shouting out during the President's speech. That's the bit which will offend moderates and independents. In a related recent question I mentioned my theory about Southern religious culture and habits being a root cause of the current Republican hyperbole and outbursts. I think this Carolina politician is an example; he probably shouts out in church all the time. But it is not acceptable to mainstream Americans or even most conservative Northerners.
"he probably shouts out in church all the time"
How nice.
Since you believe he is true to the Republican party, they will all come out in support of him?
While it is common in the British Parliament to bellow agreement and opposition, it is not the custom in the United States. Wilson's outburst had me wondering for a moment if he were going to rush the podium a la Korean government.
Watched the speech; attended a town hall in my area
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M$
That's interesting about Parliament's rules. I didn't know that the rowdiness had its own rules of politeness. Looks like our Congressman Wilson would have gotten a 5 day suspension. Ordinary booing seems to have occurred before, by Democrats vs Bush in 2005 and by Republicans vs Clinton in 1993 and several other times in the 90's. Booing is apparently the outer limit in modern Congress.
Derision is common on the British Parliament commonly takes the form of a booing type noise.
However the rules parliamentary rules also prevent our MPs calling each other liars in the house. With members being given temporary suspensions if they do it.
They're also not allowed to call each other drunks.... (despite the fact that its not unheard of for an MP to be drunk while he lies!!!)
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601102&sid=aEsEQBT6V.jA
Quote -
"This evening I let my emotions get the best of me when listening to the president's remarks regarding the coverage of illegal immigrants in the health care bill," he said. "While I disagree with the president's statement, my comments were inappropriate and regrettable. I extend sincere apologies to the president for this lack of civility."
End Quote-
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32767813/ns/politics-health_care_reform/
There are three other points that I think appropriate to address along with Representative Wilson's poor behavior:
1. Obama had just finished accusing prominent political opponents of spreading lies, although in a much more civil manner. So I suppose the message is this: It's fine to falsely accuse others of lying so long as you do it politely.
2. The language of the bill does indeed state that it will not apply to illegal immigrants. Obama is well aware that his opponents do not deny that the language exists, and he is well aware that his opponents' actual concerns are based on the absence of a verification mechanism. Obama is also well aware that opposition efforts to amend a verification method to the bill, a verification method such as already exists in other federal programs, was blocked by Democrats in two committees. Obama is indeed dishonest when he fails to address the absence of a verification method, and attempts to accuse his opponents of simply denying that language in the bill is not there.
3. Here is a clear example of the two major parties indicating that they have no desire to make any effort at civil public discourse. First, the President accuses his opponents of lying and refuses to honestly address their issues, intentionally misrepresenting their position, and secondly we have a completely unacceptable outburst in reaction.
This is the example they are setting for our children:
A. If you want to get a bill passed, accuse those opposed to it of being liars (among other things), and then refuse to address what you know to be their real concerns while misrepresenting their position yourself.
B. If you don't like what you hear, yell out that the President is a liar.
Would to God that our President could come before Congress and the people of this country and honestly say "I understand that there are opponents to this bill, and I understand that on the issue of illegal immigrants, their opposition is based on the lack of a verification process similar to what is already in place in other federal programs. Now, here is why Democrats have blocked that verification process, here is why we are opposed to it." As a parent, I could then turn to my children and say "now that is how you honestly deal with disagreements".
Would to God that our representatives could control their emotions and refrain from shouting out that the President is a liar in the middle of his speech. Would to God that he would find an appropriate time and place to calmly present his position. Again, as a parent, I could then turn to my children and say "now that is how you handle disagreements in the political arena".
Unfortunately, we have a President who will not engage in discourse on the honest differences of opinion on how to carry out health care reform, but chooses to accuse his opposition of lying and chooses to misrepresent their positions while ignoring their real concerns and refusing to explain his opposition to their concerns, and unfortunately we have representatives (at least one), who cannot control themselves in a civil, dignified manner, who are unable to show the respect and common courtesy due to any speaker, let alone the President of the United States.
Does anyone really wonder why so many Americans are unwilling to hold our elected officials up to our children as role models and examples?
Just one man's opinion, I may be wrong.
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M$
I agree, but just because this one bill doesn't cover EVER detail at the moment, the point of Obamas reform is to get SOMETHING into action, get a foot in the door. A bill can be tweaked to fix minor glitches. He says it himself that its still a work in progress.
Think of it as a computer program, or even Mahalo. Do you think every time there is an update, all the glitches are found and fixed? No they make it run as best as possible, fixing bugs as the pop up. I know they do beta testing and that's what Obama said last night, the program will take action in 4 years, and there are a few people that can get it now because they need it.
I feel that Mr. Wilson needs to learn to refrain himself, I mean it was bad enough that people were treating it like a football game and cheering in the middle of him talking. If he had an issue with it he could have gone outside AFTER the meeting and easily talked to anyone at Fox news who would I am sure had no problem broadcasting him that night.
Health Care Bill 1.0
I'm fine with Obama answering the verification issue with a statement about working on that later. But when he knows verification is the issue, but chooses to ignore it, pretending that opponents to the bill are simply lying about the restriction not being in the bill, that is dishonest and shows a refusal to engage in honest discourse. I would love to have heard Obama say "Now look, lets be honest about this, I know some of you are concerned about the lack of a verification clause similar to what we have in other federal programs, and I understand that you're upset that efforts to amend the bill to include verification have been unsuccessful, but I'm going to be straight with you, we don't have time to work out all those details right now. Let's move ahead and I promise you we will deal with that in the future." Instead, he ignores the concern and misrepresents his opposition as liars.
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M$
Just curious, did you support anger mangement treatment for the Democrats who heckled and booed President Bush during the 2005 State of the Union address? Was that an example of how they were forced to respect Bush? Neither side shows the respect for each other that you expect from 13 year olds, or maybe they do, maybe that's the problem. They all need to grow up.
I don't follow politics very often and didn't even know about that story in 2005. I think regardless of politics adults should show some restraint and get to the root of the outburst whatever the political affiliation. Great Comment I will have to look into that story.
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M$
After the inappropriate "You Lie!" remark, every news outlet I listened to commented that the issue was really about how the lack of a verification system would make it possible for illegal aliens to abuse the system, even though they weren't expressly invited to do so. Had this rude shout not been uttered, most of America would have thought we were about to get a health care system that couldn't be used by illegal aliens.
This is a $30+ billion dollar per year issue, and on July 30th the House Committee on Energy and Commerce voted down Nathan Deal's amendment to HR3200 that would have required standard S.A.V.E. eligibility verification. Thus, the president knew what the real issue was and was trying to mask it when he said that the criticisms were "lies". Had he acknowledged the the issue of verification with a "we need to work on that" instead of pretending it didn't exist, I would have disapproved of the "You Lie!" shout.
I wonder if our country would be in such a mess if a joint session had shouted over issues like Warrant-less wiretaps, clauses in the Patriot Act or excessive government spending during the previous administration. I'm starting to think loud vigorous dissent might be more useful than everyone treating our public servants like royalty blessed with a divine right of rule.
I don't WANT politics to become a brawl, but I am sick of watching both parties do their best to deceive the public, sweep important issues under the rug and gleefully spend trillions of our tax dollars as if it was petty cash. Since nothing else seems to be working, I guess I'm reluctantly willing to let opposing parties give judicious shouting a try, especially since it seems to work in some other countries.
If it turns out that we must indeed resort to this, it should be agreed upon so that all political parties understand the new rules and so that people with manners aren't left at an unfair disadvantage.
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543...
http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS53536+08-Sep-2009+PRN200909...
http://energycommerce.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=artic...
http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090730/hr3200_deal_1.pdf
http://www.numbersusa.com/content/news/july-30-2009/house-committee-votes-a...
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M$In an age where our voter turnout is generally pretty bad, it's good to get people interested in the issues. And although he didn't intentionally do that, I believe he accomplished just that.
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M$Oh, BTW Miss jessiemane: get off the whole racial thing. That's not it. It is people like you that keep shoving it down our throats when it is not true in the least that ticks us off.
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M$
I keep seeing this claim that the President has lied about something, yet I never see exactly what he is supposed to have lied about. Could you enlighten me? I do know Rep. Wilson lied about health care reform covering illegal aliens.
If Rep. Wilson wants to join those making an effort to reform the health care system, he'll have the opportunity to ensure that a verification system is put into place that is strong enough to prevent fraud. However, it seems that he's a part of the group that is against any type of meaningful health care reform and will do anything he can, including spreading lies and misinformation to kill any real reform.
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M$The HEALTH CARE BILL says it
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