What are some good arguments NOT to have seatbelt laws in the US or Canada ?
What are some good defenses FOR states to rescind their seatbelt laws ?
What are some good defenses not to ?
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M$2 Answers
Nevertheless, there is always a cost to a law. The main cost in this case is that the police and judicial system have to enforce the law. Those police and judges could be enforcing other laws, or, if there are enough to do that then the government could hire less of them.
So, the argument could be made that the police should spend their time enforcing other laws. However, since few of those other police activities actually prevent death or maiming, it is a pretty weak argument.
What kind of offense not wearing a seatbelt constitutes is really a matter of the local legal system. Ideally the offense should strongly discourage not wearing a seatbelt without unduly tying up the police and courts. Sometimes the matrix of local ordinances, state laws, and federal laws creates paradoxes. Recently, for example, New Orleans made some minor crimes illegal so that the police would not have to arrest people. It turns out that they had to make arrests under state law, but under municipal law could just issue tickets.
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M$
With todays cars, the combination of seat belts and airbags save lives. The claims that seat belts trap people in, or prevent escape are weak at best.
Seat belts can cause harm; they can exert a lot of pressure against the chest and affect the heart. However, the amount of lives they save is indisputable.
Remember, driving is not a right but a privledge. Not using seat belts results in more bodily harm and higher cost, which we all bear the burden of.
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M$
@Albanian
If you want altruistics you can DQ me any time.
But then again please tell me exactly what names, & dates for WHAT exactly ? I could be even further specific if you like. Please be specific in your question, ill do my best to be specific in my answer or find someone who can.
My door is always open.
By the way i dont feel comfortable giving you his name (which doesnt mean i wont, i just dont feel comfortable doing it.) but i can gather as much relative information to the accident for you that you like.
My friend who was murdered last year had a 1970 cuda convertible which he was in a horrific accident with in 1990. He was driving at incredible speeds and drinking (not smart a given). However the car flipped completely around in mid air and fell on its top with the top crushed ("smushed" in). The undercarriage of the car caught fire as well as the upholstery and the convertible top. Had he had a seatbelt on he would have surely not made it out of the area before the entire vehicle was engulfed in fire. Had he not been completely relaxed as the vehicle flipped in mid air he would have surely been thrown out of the vehicle sustaining lacerations and blunt trauma, paralyzed or worse.
There is no question not wearing a seatbelt and drinking saved his life.
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PS:
The cuda was completely restored before it was totaled .
Since i cant ask him anymore what the hell he was thinking, i ask myself ...
"what the hell were you thinking" ? :(
This man was also a veteran and served in vietnam for what its worth.
I only remember this story vividly as i had an obsession with this particular car when it became popular in the US 1996 TV series Nash Bridges. Had it not been for my friends death last year I probably would have forgotten.
I do not find this story believable. In addition to being bad physics similar stories have persisted as urban legends. This is part of what Snopes says:
"The false belief that it's safer not to wear a seat belt in case the vehicle catches fire persists despite the mountain of evidence countering it. Death by incineration or drowning accounts for less than one-tenth of one percent of motor-vehicle-related traumas. Most passengers who are ejected from vehicles die, and the majority of them are thrown through the windshield. The chances of injury from hitting the pavement, a fixed object, or a moving vehicle (including your own) are also much greater if you are not wearing a seat belt. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration says:
Most crash fatalities result from the force of impact or from being thrown from the vehicle, not from being trapped. All studies show you are much more likely to survive a crash if you are buckled in. Ejected occupants are four times as likely to be killed as those who remain inside.
Yes, but what if the unthinkable happens and the car catches fire or plunges into a river? Being restrained actually increases the chances of escape from burning or submerged vehicles. Those not harnessed in get knocked around during the accident, often resulting in unconsciousness. And an unconscious accident victim has no chance of getting out of a burning or rapidly sinking car."
http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/seatbelt.asp
The high speed crash combined with his not being thrown out because he was "totally relaxed" followed by his being conscious and able to crawl out of a crushed car add up to a totally impossible story. I don't think you fabricated it yourself, I think you are passing it on from an unsound source.
Even it the story were true it would be a freak event and no argument against the massive number of tests and statistics which show seatbelts prevent death in a high percentage of cases. But it is clearly not a true story.
Sorry. Names, dates, places please. I still don't believe a word of it.
.gov *
I'd like to address a few other things.
First and most importantly. (And i'll try to only quote you once here)
"Even it the story were true it would be a freak event and no argument against the massive number of tests and statistics which show seatbelts prevent death in a high percentage of cases."
Who is to say what tests are conducted to begin with are not discriminatory.
Or to put it another way.
Have you ever heard of a crash safety test being done with a live subject ?
A drunk one ?
A pet ?
Or better yet. ...... ..... ....
How many high performance vehicles (sports cars) have been tested in safety tests over the past 50 years ?
What are the actual percentages ?
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As for my friends accident, there were many eye witnesses of this event, it happened in the middle of the day on interstate I-95 in good weather. It's really not something you can or would even want to fake. Pictures of the crash where taken.
Amazingly not even 5 years later he was in a similar accident, the judge did not suspend his license and he was ordered to take sobriety programs.
I guess nearly loosing your life doesn't give people much of a wake up call. :(
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As for insurance .
I have a intimate knowledge of insurance (unfortunately) , with many different family members who have worked in many different areas of the mainstream industry over the past 25 years. I've worked in some fashion or another in each one of these areas as office support.
- Sales
- Adjusting (Investigations)
- Health
- Life
- Flood , renters and a little knowledge of home owners insurance.
And even HMO.
I can tell you with absolutely certainty.
Its a fair (As in rating) system to say the least, but its also a system meant to fail.
Let me take it apart for you guys..... I'll start with Property and casualty insurance. (Car insurance)
P&C
Point 1.
What most people don't even realize off the bat is that 99% of the time the agency and agent that you purchase insurance from is nothing but a middleman . Not only are they only authorized sales dealers they also have no direct oversight from the insurance carriers themselves.
And not only that, the insurance company itself has also outsourced, or "reinsured" your policy 50% of the time with another insurance company.
And then even sometimes your policy is covered by something called privatization insurance or a broker has literally purchased YOUR insurance policy .
So when and god forbid you DO get into an accident you're left in a game of pass the buck. Or more like ring around the rosie.
Health and hole life/HMO. or an industry term HHL.
Point 2.
(See point 1.)
What GOOD is P&C with state minimum coverage that covers injuries if its not applied BY the industry to cost cuts ?
Or even better ...
What GOOD is health insurance if it doesn't cover cosmetic procedures after an accident ? ( if im completely disfigured or augmented in some way do you really expect me to just go through life without emotional repercussions ?)
In much more simpler terms the insurance industry is completely corrupt and bureaucratic.
They can sell you a bridge and then make you drive off it.
What I mean is the way one verifies a story is to look up the actual newspaper report. Stories which don't have the sort of information that would allow checking are suspect even if the story is otherwise credible. If the story is incredible then newspaper reports are even more necessary. If the local paper is not online then I can't check it myself; but, that's the principle. I don't care about the personal details other than whatever points to the newspaper reports that describe the accident.
Then there is one last and final point i would like to make.
Civil rights.
I'm not going to drag this one out for you all, just to say.
It's my body, weather its in one piece or 1 thousand pieces. It belongs to no one else but me. Unless i'm arrested or accosted by authorities, no one else should have the right to instruct or force me with what or who touches my body at any time.
Also i'd like to add. This wasn't some spur of the moment thing, he WAS a experienced race car and motocross driver , And in the past often drove at high speeds. (Especially on the high way)
I would imagine the local media picked up on the accident at some point and there are records of it, and possibly a state police report.
Later on in life he became a reserve firefighter and med tech.
He was mugged in the city one evening while walking home from the liquor store of all places, the guy that mugged him hit him in the head so hard he died shortly after. He had previous health conditions including a stroke in 2008.
__In no way do i condone driving under the influence of any substance or passenger.__
Rather than try to restate what @albanian said so well, I will only comment that the only reason for NOT having laws requiring seat belts would fall under the same argument that allows people to smoke legally or assisted suicide. People like to have control over how they die. If people want to drive unsafely after a certain age (like 28) and not wear a seatbelt that should be up to them. Their estate should also pay a premium for the extra cost associated with finding and retrieving all their body parts from being flung to high heaven and back and insurance companies would be in their rights charging or compensating differently for the privilege as well.
I'll track down the reports. If they are still on microfilm(microfisc) they would be in the library or available at archive.org . I'll see what i can find