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I'm not a lawyer, or an intellectual property expert. Rather a person with a tech and business background and some interest in IP matters. So take this as useful input, but not any kind of professional advice.
First question to ask, if you have not already asked it, is why do you want patents in the first place?
The well known entrepreneur and venture capitalist Paul Graham has this to say:
"The only real role of patents, for most startups, is as an element of the mating dance with acquirers. There patents do help a little... But even in the mating dance, patents are of secondary importance. It matters more to make something great and get a lot of users."
The game is a little bit different for large corporations, where patents are mainly defensive. Graham says:
"A lot of companies (Microsoft, for example) have been granted large numbers of preposterously over-broad patents, but they keep them mainly for defensive purposes. Like nuclear weapons, the main role of big companies' patent portfolios is to threaten anyone who attacks them with a counter-suit. Amazon's suit against Barnes & Noble was thus the equivalent of a nuclear first strike. That suit probably hurt Amazon more than it helped them."
I'm assuming you are not a big company, or you wouldn't be asking your questions here!
The point is even if you get patents, they aren't going to protect you much if you ever needed to defend them against Microsoft, you won't have the cash to take them on. Nor are patents usually that valuable in selling your company to Google. Most of the time what makes your startup worth buying is as Graham said whether you "make something great and get a lot of users".
So if you still want to pursue getting patents, what next?
You can use sites like this to learn more about patents and investigate the patentability of your inventions:
http://www.bitlaw.com/software-patent/index.html
http://www.spi.org/home.jsp
You also want to be aware of recent developments, and make sure that whatever you are reading is current. A legal decision in October 2008 blew away a good part of the existing patents portfolios of large companies:
http://www.itexaminer.com/us-court-throws-out-most-software-patents.aspx
When it comes to LegalZoom, there has also been an important change in the law. In Aug 2008, the ways in which patent attorneys are allowed to work with services like LegalZoom was restricted. The changes were designed to stop scams where a service claiming to advise on patentability could steal your work and patent it for itself. As a result of these new restrictions, many top attorneys no longer work with LegalZoom or similar services.
http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2008/09/10/legalzoom-patent-review-service-ends/
Consequently, while LegalZoom still offer a patent review service, there is probably no easy way to know if they still provide the same quality of expertise as before.
If you do find any reviews, make sure they are based on very recent experience, certainly no earlier than Sept 2008.
While these aren't the answers you perhaps hoped to hear, I hope they help.
Good luck with your inventions and enterprises!
Source(s):
http://www.paulgraham.com/softwarepatents.html
http://www.spi.org/home.jsp
http://www.bitlaw.com/software-patent/index.html
http://www.itexaminer.com/us-court-throws-out-most-software-patents.aspx
http://www.ipwatchdog.com/about/legalzoom/
http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2008/09/10/legalzoom-patent-review-service-ends/
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20081030150903555
http://www.legalzoom.com/provisional-patents/provisional-patents-overview.h...
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philipy
What is a Provisional Patent?
A Provisional Patent can be very informal, such as just copies of your notes and drawings of your invention. For a Provisional Patent, all you need to do is write down your invention, how it works, and provide a drawing documentation if applicable. This is the simplest form to get started with the patent process, without spending the higher fees to file a patent with an attorney. You do not need an attorney to file a Provisional Patent application, yet I would highly recommend one to file a regular patent, which usually has more details and specifics than a provisional patent. You can fill out the forms completely online by visiting the USPTO website.
USPTO http://www.uspto.gov
Why should you file a Provisional Patent application?
Filing a provisional patent gives an inventor time to fine-tune their product to meet the requirements of customers and the market. When an inventor eventually does file a regular patent, they will do so for a product that they know will sell and earn profits and at the same time the product is protected from copyright infringement. The validity of the Provisional Patent application starts from the date of filing the application, and is non-extendable.
The U.S. has a "first to invent" system:
The U.S. has a "first to invent" patent system (unlike the "first to file" system in most foreign countries), so if you carefully document your invention ideas, you can still become the owner of a patent even if someone files an application before you do. However, the patent office (and the courts) have a very high standard that you would have to meet to prove you were the earlier inventor. One requirement is "due diligence" by documenting your patents, dating the papers, and making sure everything is dated. You can even take your invention idea, write it down on a paper, sign and seal it in an envelope and send it to yourself to get the postmarked date, or have someone who is a Notary Republic sign and date the bottom of your documents. You should also be able to show that you were working on the idea consistently before you filed the application. If you come up with an invention idea, put it aside for a few months, and then start working on it, you won't get credit for that long gap.
For this reason, most people just rely on filing dates, it's so much easier to prove a filing date. Provisional Patent applications are great for this, as they provide a date certain. The one downside to the provisional application is that you only have a 1-year time limit to file a full regular patent application. If you think you're more than a year away from a formal application, then you should probably hold off on the Provisional Patent application.
As far as determining if a software innovation is successful for a patent, it's not safe to say that one innovation will be successful at obtaining patents without knowing anything about what it is you are filing a patent for. This decision is up to the patent examiner.
However, it's highly recommended that you thoroughly research the invention you are filing a patent on, and if there is nothing already just like it, then you can file a patent. If there is prior art, you need to show how your invention is clearly different from what already exists. Most software innovations that are successful are game changers, and not obvious. For instance, many debate Amazon's "one click" patent was too obvious. If you are filing an innovation that is so obvious, then it would not be recommended going through the patent process.
To figure out if your innovations are truly novel and patentable, you need to do your research. You should research Google Patent Search prior to filing your Provisional Application, or research what is already out there through the USPTO website.
Google Patent Search
http://www.google.com/patents
It's recommended that you file a patent on something if you can prove or back what you are claiming is unique about your innovation, or how it makes an improvement over what is already available.
With your question about putting the innovations into "units" and applied for separately, this is not necessary for a Provisional Patent application, or even for a regular patent. The examiner will come back to you, if the examiner deems that your patent needs to be separated into different patent applications.
I recommend you check out the links, and About.com has some great information on filing patents, as well as where to find information.
Best of luck with filing your provisional patent. Hopefully this helps!
Source(s):
http://inventors.about.com/od/patents/Patents.htm
http://inventors.about.com/od/applicationforms/Patent_Trademark_Copyright_A...
http://inventors.about.com/od/patenttrademarkcopyright/Intellectual_Propert... http://inventors.about.com
http://www.startupnation.com/articles/9108/1/pursue-invention.html
http://www.morebusiness.com/running_your_business/legal/Provisional-Patent....
http://paulstamatiou.com/2007/09/22/step-2-apply-for-a-provisional-patent
Permalink | Report
An important thing to know is that obtaining a Patent isn't as difficult (read: expensive) as defending it.
Think of Provisionals like place holders. They reserve your spot in line, in case someone else files the same Patent next week. You then have a year to file the Regulatory, but can use "Patent Pending" in the meantime.
In the Provisional, you can get by with being "sort of" vague (attorneys will probably flame me for that one), but you should provide as many specifics as you can. You can then architect your software and/or build your product so it's fundamentally unique, if there are possible competitors.
I would try to separate features ("units") into individual filings b/c the provisional is only $75 (going on memory here), and you'll have a chance at winning one or some, even if others aren't totally unique.
Finally, since it sounds like you're short on cash, spend a day at uspto.gov, reviewing possible competing patents yourself. You know more about your product than an attorney does, so you'll be able to determine if and how yours is different. It will also help you think about ways to work around any possible competing patents, when building your product.
You'll be well-served getting an attorney to help you with the Regulatory, tho. It's a very time-intensive process and you'll want to be very involved in the process. Provide the attorney with a lot of product detail, the competing Patents you've found, etc. And be up-front with your budget and how much you can afford to spend. It will allow them to help prioritize the Provisionals, if necessary.
Permalink | Report
In the wake of the court's decisoin in the eBay case, tech startups simply cannot count on their patents as an effective and efficient tool to shut down the Microsofts of the world. And that's after you actually have a patent. Just getting to that point could take years....and years....and years.
Als, the application backlog at the Patent and Trademark Officeis at an all-time high. Current statistics show that the average patent application takes longer than thirty months from the date of filing to the date of issue. Factor in some of the more backlogged tech areas,such as Web Business and Internet Business methods, and it will realistically be 5 years before the patent office even starts to examine your application. The dealy is know to be as long as ten years in certain technology areas. Your competition could run you over by then, and its more than likely we'll all be on to Web 5.0 by the time you get the patent approved.
Put patents in the right place. Practically speaking, this means asking "Should we patent?"
Look Beyond the value in legal action. When considering the role of patents in your overall strategy, remember that they can add value beyond just the ability to sue a competitor. Blocking your competitiors from getting patents can keep them from suing you.
Consider the role that patents will paly in your business. Never forget that inventions come before patents. Are they an imprtant component ofthe value and growth of the company? Above all develop an overall branding strategy for your trademarks.
As for legal advice the bottom line is if Legalzoom or or your patent attorney tells you that you must patent everything without regard to the big picture, do yourself a favor and find a new one. A good patent attorney looks at the big picture and proposes a strategy for you--not a bunch of disparate tactics
Source(s):
Reality Check: The Irreverent Guide to Outsmarting, Outmanaging, and Outmarketing Your Competition
pgs 292-293
Guy Kawasaki 2008
isbn 978-1-59184-223-1
Permalink | Report
http://online-legal-forms-review.toptenreviews.com/legalzoom-review.html
http://www.xomreviews.com/legalzoom.com
http://www.llc-made-easy.com/legalzoom-review.html
Permalink | Report
Answered Question
M$25
January 21, 2009 04:41 AM
What should I know about provisional patents on software? What do people think of legalzoom's review service?
Beyond "novel" and "non-obvious," what kinds of software innovations are successful in obtaining patents? How do I figure out which, if any, of my innovations are truly novel and patentable? Must the innovations in a single program be separated into "units" and applied for separately? At this point I can only afford the review process for a provisional patent and am considering legalzoom. Any reviews of it? Other options? Links to good content, online or printed, would be much appreciated.
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| January 22, 2009 06:55 PM |
First question to ask, if you have not already asked it, is why do you want patents in the first place?
The well known entrepreneur and venture capitalist Paul Graham has this to say:
"The only real role of patents, for most startups, is as an element of the mating dance with acquirers. There patents do help a little... But even in the mating dance, patents are of secondary importance. It matters more to make something great and get a lot of users."
The game is a little bit different for large corporations, where patents are mainly defensive. Graham says:
"A lot of companies (Microsoft, for example) have been granted large numbers of preposterously over-broad patents, but they keep them mainly for defensive purposes. Like nuclear weapons, the main role of big companies' patent portfolios is to threaten anyone who attacks them with a counter-suit. Amazon's suit against Barnes & Noble was thus the equivalent of a nuclear first strike. That suit probably hurt Amazon more than it helped them."
I'm assuming you are not a big company, or you wouldn't be asking your questions here!
The point is even if you get patents, they aren't going to protect you much if you ever needed to defend them against Microsoft, you won't have the cash to take them on. Nor are patents usually that valuable in selling your company to Google. Most of the time what makes your startup worth buying is as Graham said whether you "make something great and get a lot of users".
So if you still want to pursue getting patents, what next?
You can use sites like this to learn more about patents and investigate the patentability of your inventions:
http://www.bitlaw.com/software-patent/index.html
http://www.spi.org/home.jsp
You also want to be aware of recent developments, and make sure that whatever you are reading is current. A legal decision in October 2008 blew away a good part of the existing patents portfolios of large companies:
http://www.itexaminer.com/us-court-throws-out-most-software-patents.aspx
When it comes to LegalZoom, there has also been an important change in the law. In Aug 2008, the ways in which patent attorneys are allowed to work with services like LegalZoom was restricted. The changes were designed to stop scams where a service claiming to advise on patentability could steal your work and patent it for itself. As a result of these new restrictions, many top attorneys no longer work with LegalZoom or similar services.
http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2008/09/10/legalzoom-patent-review-service-ends/
Consequently, while LegalZoom still offer a patent review service, there is probably no easy way to know if they still provide the same quality of expertise as before.
If you do find any reviews, make sure they are based on very recent experience, certainly no earlier than Sept 2008.
While these aren't the answers you perhaps hoped to hear, I hope they help.
Good luck with your inventions and enterprises!
Source(s):
http://www.paulgraham.com/softwarepatents.html
http://www.spi.org/home.jsp
http://www.bitlaw.com/software-patent/index.html
http://www.itexaminer.com/us-court-throws-out-most-software-patents.aspx
http://www.ipwatchdog.com/about/legalzoom/
http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2008/09/10/legalzoom-patent-review-service-ends/
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20081030150903555
http://www.legalzoom.com/provisional-patents/provisional-patents-overview.h...
| Asker's Rating: |
• Very helpful answer that shares new developments highly relevant to my question. Thanks!
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philipy
January 25, 2009 05:46 PM
Glad to be a help. :)
Tip philipy for this comment
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Other Answers (4)
January 21, 2009 05:40 AM
I am not an attorney, so this is not to be taken as legal advice. If you have legal questions, I recommend you speak to an attorney. However, from my experience, I can provide you some thoughts on the patent process, and what goes into it. First, you do not need to file a provisional patent if you are prepared to file a regular patent. With regards to LegalZoom, you do not have to use LegalZoom to apply for a Provisional Patent application, yet if a service like this assists you, then you should use this service.What is a Provisional Patent?
A Provisional Patent can be very informal, such as just copies of your notes and drawings of your invention. For a Provisional Patent, all you need to do is write down your invention, how it works, and provide a drawing documentation if applicable. This is the simplest form to get started with the patent process, without spending the higher fees to file a patent with an attorney. You do not need an attorney to file a Provisional Patent application, yet I would highly recommend one to file a regular patent, which usually has more details and specifics than a provisional patent. You can fill out the forms completely online by visiting the USPTO website.
USPTO http://www.uspto.gov
Why should you file a Provisional Patent application?
Filing a provisional patent gives an inventor time to fine-tune their product to meet the requirements of customers and the market. When an inventor eventually does file a regular patent, they will do so for a product that they know will sell and earn profits and at the same time the product is protected from copyright infringement. The validity of the Provisional Patent application starts from the date of filing the application, and is non-extendable.
The U.S. has a "first to invent" system:
The U.S. has a "first to invent" patent system (unlike the "first to file" system in most foreign countries), so if you carefully document your invention ideas, you can still become the owner of a patent even if someone files an application before you do. However, the patent office (and the courts) have a very high standard that you would have to meet to prove you were the earlier inventor. One requirement is "due diligence" by documenting your patents, dating the papers, and making sure everything is dated. You can even take your invention idea, write it down on a paper, sign and seal it in an envelope and send it to yourself to get the postmarked date, or have someone who is a Notary Republic sign and date the bottom of your documents. You should also be able to show that you were working on the idea consistently before you filed the application. If you come up with an invention idea, put it aside for a few months, and then start working on it, you won't get credit for that long gap.
For this reason, most people just rely on filing dates, it's so much easier to prove a filing date. Provisional Patent applications are great for this, as they provide a date certain. The one downside to the provisional application is that you only have a 1-year time limit to file a full regular patent application. If you think you're more than a year away from a formal application, then you should probably hold off on the Provisional Patent application.
As far as determining if a software innovation is successful for a patent, it's not safe to say that one innovation will be successful at obtaining patents without knowing anything about what it is you are filing a patent for. This decision is up to the patent examiner.
However, it's highly recommended that you thoroughly research the invention you are filing a patent on, and if there is nothing already just like it, then you can file a patent. If there is prior art, you need to show how your invention is clearly different from what already exists. Most software innovations that are successful are game changers, and not obvious. For instance, many debate Amazon's "one click" patent was too obvious. If you are filing an innovation that is so obvious, then it would not be recommended going through the patent process.
To figure out if your innovations are truly novel and patentable, you need to do your research. You should research Google Patent Search prior to filing your Provisional Application, or research what is already out there through the USPTO website.
Google Patent Search
http://www.google.com/patents
It's recommended that you file a patent on something if you can prove or back what you are claiming is unique about your innovation, or how it makes an improvement over what is already available.
With your question about putting the innovations into "units" and applied for separately, this is not necessary for a Provisional Patent application, or even for a regular patent. The examiner will come back to you, if the examiner deems that your patent needs to be separated into different patent applications.
I recommend you check out the links, and About.com has some great information on filing patents, as well as where to find information.
Best of luck with filing your provisional patent. Hopefully this helps!
Source(s):
http://inventors.about.com/od/patents/Patents.htm
http://inventors.about.com/od/applicationforms/Patent_Trademark_Copyright_A...
http://inventors.about.com/od/patenttrademarkcopyright/Intellectual_Propert... http://inventors.about.com
http://www.startupnation.com/articles/9108/1/pursue-invention.html
http://www.morebusiness.com/running_your_business/legal/Provisional-Patent....
http://paulstamatiou.com/2007/09/22/step-2-apply-for-a-provisional-patent
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January 21, 2009 05:44 AM
Disclaimer: I'm not an attorney, so don't take this as gospel truth, but I've filed 12 Provisional patents. My startup ran out of capital before we could file the Regulatories. An important thing to know is that obtaining a Patent isn't as difficult (read: expensive) as defending it.
Think of Provisionals like place holders. They reserve your spot in line, in case someone else files the same Patent next week. You then have a year to file the Regulatory, but can use "Patent Pending" in the meantime.
In the Provisional, you can get by with being "sort of" vague (attorneys will probably flame me for that one), but you should provide as many specifics as you can. You can then architect your software and/or build your product so it's fundamentally unique, if there are possible competitors.
I would try to separate features ("units") into individual filings b/c the provisional is only $75 (going on memory here), and you'll have a chance at winning one or some, even if others aren't totally unique.
Finally, since it sounds like you're short on cash, spend a day at uspto.gov, reviewing possible competing patents yourself. You know more about your product than an attorney does, so you'll be able to determine if and how yours is different. It will also help you think about ways to work around any possible competing patents, when building your product.
You'll be well-served getting an attorney to help you with the Regulatory, tho. It's a very time-intensive process and you'll want to be very involved in the process. Provide the attorney with a lot of product detail, the competing Patents you've found, etc. And be up-front with your budget and how much you can afford to spend. It will allow them to help prioritize the Provisionals, if necessary.
Permalink | Report
January 21, 2009 05:58 AM
Patent law is currently a sea of chaos, and the net effect is that patents simply don't pack the oomph that they once did. ---particulary for startups. For example the Supreme Court recently issued a decision in eBay v. MercExcahnge, which many people expect will change the value of patents for small companies that don't actually make and sell a product. In the wake of the court's decisoin in the eBay case, tech startups simply cannot count on their patents as an effective and efficient tool to shut down the Microsofts of the world. And that's after you actually have a patent. Just getting to that point could take years....and years....and years.
Als, the application backlog at the Patent and Trademark Officeis at an all-time high. Current statistics show that the average patent application takes longer than thirty months from the date of filing to the date of issue. Factor in some of the more backlogged tech areas,such as Web Business and Internet Business methods, and it will realistically be 5 years before the patent office even starts to examine your application. The dealy is know to be as long as ten years in certain technology areas. Your competition could run you over by then, and its more than likely we'll all be on to Web 5.0 by the time you get the patent approved.
Put patents in the right place. Practically speaking, this means asking "Should we patent?"
Look Beyond the value in legal action. When considering the role of patents in your overall strategy, remember that they can add value beyond just the ability to sue a competitor. Blocking your competitiors from getting patents can keep them from suing you.
Consider the role that patents will paly in your business. Never forget that inventions come before patents. Are they an imprtant component ofthe value and growth of the company? Above all develop an overall branding strategy for your trademarks.
As for legal advice the bottom line is if Legalzoom or or your patent attorney tells you that you must patent everything without regard to the big picture, do yourself a favor and find a new one. A good patent attorney looks at the big picture and proposes a strategy for you--not a bunch of disparate tactics
Source(s):
Reality Check: The Irreverent Guide to Outsmarting, Outmanaging, and Outmarketing Your Competition
pgs 292-293
Guy Kawasaki 2008
isbn 978-1-59184-223-1
Permalink | Report
January 21, 2009 11:11 AM
Here are some of the helpful reviews I found:http://online-legal-forms-review.toptenreviews.com/legalzoom-review.html
http://www.xomreviews.com/legalzoom.com
http://www.llc-made-easy.com/legalzoom-review.html
Permalink | Report
January 22, 2009 05:39 PM
These reviews only deal with the standard services like LLC formation, and don't say anything about patents or intellectual property matters. So not useful for this particular question.
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