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Thought on this experiment...
1) Testing methods
It's about time you guys got yourself a test system where you can play around with things like that before throwing them live. If you already have that, you didn't test enough to know what the impact on user experience would be before going ahead.
On the plus side you reacted quickly when people flagged the problems.
Also you frequently are not great at communicating with the users. Like you are only now explaining what this was all about, when the time to do it was before you tried it, and it would have been a big help if the questions had had a note within them to explain what they were.
Your enthusiasm - which is a good thing! - sometimes runs ahead of what would be considered professionalism in running a live system with active users.
2) The idea of adding generated questions
It's potentially a good idea, but it doesn't sit well with the normal user interface. We're happy to scan recent questions, unanswered questions etc, but no one wants to scan 10,000 questions about plumbers. To have this work well, you need a different way of managing those questions, outside the normal Q&A streams.
Maybe have another tab for machine generated questions.
Also consider how they are categorised and tagged, and how people could find or be notified about questions relating to their own city.
3) Improvements
Researching the best plumber in X is not my idea of fun. Others may differ.
I might answer a question about "Plumbers you would recommend in X" based on personal experience though.
However, on the whole, 25c is not enough of a tip to get me to bite on these kinds of questions. The time needed / fun / reward equation doesn't stack up.
I'm assuming you checked what people actually search for, and they search for "best plumber" even though that is hard for anyone to answer properly. (Best according to what criteria? Price no object? According to what sources?)
Some of the answers I saw are just replicating the promotional stuff plumbers say about themselves. Which means Mahalo is just providing them with free advertising, at the same time undermining its reputation for being a trustworthy source of info.
You may want to find a way to get a fit in the questions between what people search for, what would be considered a well-posed question that can be given a Mahalo-quality answer, and would attract people's interest here.
Conclusion
There may be great idea in there that can be developed into a big win for Mahalo and the users. But so far, the execution is a long way short of that.
I for one would hate to see a reptition without the kind of user interface changes I suggested.
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I had to have an irrigation line repaired for a client because one of my technicians damaged it, and I had them stop by my office to repair a leaky toilet.
It's a great idea!
Edit Just so you know it's not a joke, the above story is completely true, the photo below is just from google images :)
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First of all, it killed another service, the Mahalo Spy. It was completely unusable during the time these plumbing questions were asked.
In addition, looking through the unanswered questions has become much more difficult, because there are 10,000 unanswered plumbing questions.
I like the idea of Mahalo providing access to this kind of information. But I think it should be implemented differently. Perhaps there could be a special section of questions dedicated to local queries, and these don't show up in the general unanswered questions area, or the Mahalo Spy? Because that just makes it harder to answer questions, hurting the overall value of the Mahalo product.
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2. Thoughts on doing this better? One way to improve this is to maybe offer additional mahalo dollars for any further contributions meanning listing othere plumbers that might be better than the best answer. Have people vote on then thus the best plumber would get the most votes people that vote on these could receive extra points?
3. Thoughts on expanding this? Like i mention before unless u can generate discussion all this might accomplish is to make a quick reference guide to see who is the best plumber, but this might not even be accurate without people constanly adding info so i suggest coming up with a strategy that enhances discussion before moving on.
4. favorite plumber/plumbing related photo/video? haha love this question heres a video.
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Please don't do this. Please?!
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With the whole tipping system, this site should catch on with the masses in no time. There are so many people that want to make money online and this is a great site for it.
The spam questions are no good, I mean I just asked a question and it just got pushed off the front page immediately by a bunch of automatic post asking about recipes.
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As a bonus to my photo, my favorite plumber/septic tank service logo:
"A Straight Flush is Always Better than a Full House"
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1. Thoughts on the test, I think you may have made the mistake of trying to fix something that wasn't broken in the first place. I feel deceived and a little silly because I was answering these as any other question even though I thought it was very weird that there were so many.
2. Thoughts on doing this better? Tell members ahead of time what you are doing, why, how it works, etc. Don't flood the main part of Mahalo with these questions. Find a way to make it in a separate section. Recruit members who are willing to answer the test questions after they know the purpose. Make it worth members time to go to that section and answer as many as they want.
3. Thoughts on expanding this?
I don't see how you can expand it without fundamentally changing the foundation of the way Mahalo works at present. See comment 1.
4. favorite plumber/plumbing related photo/video?
Mahalo Plumbing chaos....
http://www.harrysplumbingandheating.com/resources/images/clients/0000006153.000.20081211094716.50c3e8a191498fe6e2f8402248090ab8134b6545.jpeg
Source(s):
http://www.harrysplumbingandheating.com
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But on the other hand... Mahalo has something that Google doesn't: human editors. So if the results can be complemented with people who actually use the services and comment on them - in a more human way that just quick reviews, it could be a plus.
But shouldn't this be placed on a specific category or somethings, instead of "polluting" the main questions section?
Oh... and maybe you could ask these directly at those users who live in the specific areas, for a tip maybe...
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-y'all should have let folks know what was going on. I feel like usually you do a better job of that.
-these questions should have a separate tab or location so they don't muck up the works & mess up functions the community is used to using.
-I'm all for supporting things that will grow the site I've come to appreciate, but if this kind of thing changes the parts I like the most, then I am much less likely to want to be helpful.
-the thing that makes Mahalo special is the actual human interaction. I am, frankly, wary of anything that messes with that. Answering a question from a real person is satisfying--bulk-generated questions, maybe not so much.
-I'm OK with giving an informed recommendation about, say, a mechanic or plumber I have actually used & liked in my own town, but feel quite uncomfortable promoting a tradesperson with whom I have no personal experience. So I'm not too keen on claiming the best plumber in CITYNAME is X based only on a little internet research. I've no desire to just promote the most well-advertised folks. In my experience the best plumbers, mechanics, etc. tend to be the ones who get so much work from glowing word of mouth that they don't need to advertise much.
-How would the tips work again? And when do you pick best answer? Seems like the most reliable answers to these types of questions would result from as many people as possible answering, no matter when they answer, so wouldn't this sort of question benefit from no deadline to answer? Yet, if I'm going to put in effort answering a question that no one has actually asked yet, I would need some sort of motivation.
I can see how human editors could benefit someone heading to the internet to find a plumber. And I'm all for promoting Mahalo, but not at the expense of the integrity of the site. If you decide it's for the best, please do it carefully.
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I have always prided myself with spending time to help vote and sort, but now I'm feeling frustrated.
Please don't make a habit out of these tests.
I'm afraid that if I start answering these plumber questions, that it will just encourage more to come...
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_rS2F4H2fhYE/SPef3jngvYI/AAAAAAAAA0Y/6twNsiQQQrk/s320/etsy1.jpg
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Answered Question
M$6
May 12, 2009 06:20 PM
UPDATE: About those plumbing questions!
We've been getting a lot of questions about the flood of local questions about "best plumber in CITYNAME" on Mahalo. We added these as a test to see if we could insert "bonus questions" in to the system in the hopes of collecting information from around the web.
This is *only* a test.
A number of folks have started doing research on these "bonus questions" and it turns out that if we get an answer or two to these question they rank in Google/Yahoo. What this means is Mahalo Answers could become the discussion forum for these types of questions over the long term.
For example if you do a search for "best plumber Jacksonville" our result is #4 on Google.
If you have some time please go ahead an answer a dozen of these with information from sites like Angie's List, Yelp, Yahoo Local, etc. Try and give good advice and links directly to sites.
This will "plant a flag" for the discussion of "best plumbers in CITYNAME." As folks find these pages they will improve them.
... anyway, it's worth a try right?
1. Thoughts on this test?
2. Thoughts on doing this better?
3. Thoughts on expanding this?
4. favorite plumber/plumbing related photo/video?
This is *only* a test.
A number of folks have started doing research on these "bonus questions" and it turns out that if we get an answer or two to these question they rank in Google/Yahoo. What this means is Mahalo Answers could become the discussion forum for these types of questions over the long term.
For example if you do a search for "best plumber Jacksonville" our result is #4 on Google.
If you have some time please go ahead an answer a dozen of these with information from sites like Angie's List, Yelp, Yahoo Local, etc. Try and give good advice and links directly to sites.
This will "plant a flag" for the discussion of "best plumbers in CITYNAME." As folks find these pages they will improve them.
... anyway, it's worth a try right?
1. Thoughts on this test?
2. Thoughts on doing this better?
3. Thoughts on expanding this?
4. favorite plumber/plumbing related photo/video?
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Best Answer Decided by Votes
| May 12, 2009 07:02 PM |
1) Testing methods
It's about time you guys got yourself a test system where you can play around with things like that before throwing them live. If you already have that, you didn't test enough to know what the impact on user experience would be before going ahead.
On the plus side you reacted quickly when people flagged the problems.
Also you frequently are not great at communicating with the users. Like you are only now explaining what this was all about, when the time to do it was before you tried it, and it would have been a big help if the questions had had a note within them to explain what they were.
Your enthusiasm - which is a good thing! - sometimes runs ahead of what would be considered professionalism in running a live system with active users.
2) The idea of adding generated questions
It's potentially a good idea, but it doesn't sit well with the normal user interface. We're happy to scan recent questions, unanswered questions etc, but no one wants to scan 10,000 questions about plumbers. To have this work well, you need a different way of managing those questions, outside the normal Q&A streams.
Maybe have another tab for machine generated questions.
Also consider how they are categorised and tagged, and how people could find or be notified about questions relating to their own city.
3) Improvements
Researching the best plumber in X is not my idea of fun. Others may differ.
I might answer a question about "Plumbers you would recommend in X" based on personal experience though.
However, on the whole, 25c is not enough of a tip to get me to bite on these kinds of questions. The time needed / fun / reward equation doesn't stack up.
I'm assuming you checked what people actually search for, and they search for "best plumber" even though that is hard for anyone to answer properly. (Best according to what criteria? Price no object? According to what sources?)
Some of the answers I saw are just replicating the promotional stuff plumbers say about themselves. Which means Mahalo is just providing them with free advertising, at the same time undermining its reputation for being a trustworthy source of info.
You may want to find a way to get a fit in the questions between what people search for, what would be considered a well-posed question that can be given a Mahalo-quality answer, and would attract people's interest here.
Conclusion
There may be great idea in there that can be developed into a big win for Mahalo and the users. But so far, the execution is a long way short of that.
I for one would hate to see a reptition without the kind of user interface changes I suggested.
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Other Answers (10)
May 12, 2009 06:27 PM
Funny .. I used a plumber from Jacksonville just yesterday, but it wasn't the one I touted in response to the original "Best Plumber In Jacksonville" question. I had to have an irrigation line repaired for a client because one of my technicians damaged it, and I had them stop by my office to repair a leaky toilet.
It's a great idea!
Edit Just so you know it's not a joke, the above story is completely true, the photo below is just from google images :)
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May 12, 2009 06:36 PM
I think it's valuable to have a product like this. But I think the rollout was not done as well as it could have been. First of all, it killed another service, the Mahalo Spy. It was completely unusable during the time these plumbing questions were asked.
In addition, looking through the unanswered questions has become much more difficult, because there are 10,000 unanswered plumbing questions.
I like the idea of Mahalo providing access to this kind of information. But I think it should be implemented differently. Perhaps there could be a special section of questions dedicated to local queries, and these don't show up in the general unanswered questions area, or the Mahalo Spy? Because that just makes it harder to answer questions, hurting the overall value of the Mahalo product.
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May 12, 2009 06:39 PM
We should have kept these out of the spy... file that under: duh?!?!?! :-p
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May 12, 2009 06:59 PM
Yes, another feature it made useless was the "Sort by Oldest" and "Sort by Unanswered" which were two popular features for users who liked to help clean old older missed questions. For those who want to continue doing that you need to start at page 1001
http://www.mahalo.com/answers/?filter=open&sortby=sort_unanswered&page=1001
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http://www.mahalo.com/answers/?filter=open&sortby=sort_unanswered&page=1001
May 12, 2009 07:26 PM
I think these questions should be handled like the NSFW questions. That way they exist but they wouldn't really interfere with the other questions.
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May 12, 2009 06:45 PM
1. Thoughts on the test? Well i knew there was something up with all these plumbing questions. As far as mahalo becoming the source of discussion for these questions well i think it could happen, but will people continue to post answers if there was a best answer chosen? my guess without any incentive to further post answer it would just become a quick check to see the best answer. 2. Thoughts on doing this better? One way to improve this is to maybe offer additional mahalo dollars for any further contributions meanning listing othere plumbers that might be better than the best answer. Have people vote on then thus the best plumber would get the most votes people that vote on these could receive extra points?
3. Thoughts on expanding this? Like i mention before unless u can generate discussion all this might accomplish is to make a quick reference guide to see who is the best plumber, but this might not even be accurate without people constanly adding info so i suggest coming up with a strategy that enhances discussion before moving on.
4. favorite plumber/plumbing related photo/video? haha love this question heres a video.
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May 12, 2009 06:49 PM
Oh dear god. Please no. PLEASE NO. This is EXACTLY what killed Askville.com - "Bonus Questions" that are not written by real people, that flood the site and make it unusable to actual human beings who want to ask and answer real questions. Please don't do this. Please?!
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Helpful: jasoncalacanis, dbspringer, interzone, hillo, dfj225, pirate, nadiraziz, beefymexican
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May 12, 2009 07:06 PM
Thanks so much for this feedback. The "bonus questions" are what built Askville into a HUGE powerhouse in terms of traffic, but I'm interested in hearing why you think it killed the site.
Was it because you couldn't find the real questions from the bonus questions?
Is there a way to have the best of both? Maybe filter the bonus questions OFF the main page and put them in categories? post them as five days old (like we did)?
Can you tell us more about your experience over at ASkville?
Askville traffic below.
http://www.quantcast.com/askville.amazon.com#traffic
http://www.quantcast.com/profile/trafficGraph?wunit=wd%3Acom.amazon.askville&drg=&dty=pp&dtr=dm&gl=6mo&ggt=large&showDeleteButtons=true
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Was it because you couldn't find the real questions from the bonus questions?
Is there a way to have the best of both? Maybe filter the bonus questions OFF the main page and put them in categories? post them as five days old (like we did)?
Can you tell us more about your experience over at ASkville?
Askville traffic below.
http://www.quantcast.com/askville.amazon.com#traffic
http://www.quantcast.com/profile/trafficGraph?wunit=wd%3Acom.amazon.askville&drg=&dty=pp&dtr=dm&gl=6mo&ggt=large&showDeleteButtons=true
May 12, 2009 07:27 PM
Glad to.
When Askville introduced the "Bonus Questions", the site quickly become virtually unusable to the common user. The questions were computer-generated and largely unintelligable and un-readable. They flooded the site. It was not uncommon to have to scroll through 10 pages of BQs to find one or two "real" questions.
They also created the phenomenon of "point gamers" - people who existed only to rack up Askville Gold Points (which Askville later made worthless because of the gamers). That, in turn, caused a lot of animosity between the gamers and the people who wanted to ask and answer real questions, which led to Askville having to introduce moderators and "hidden" answers, which served only make people even more upset.
My personal problem with the Bonus Questions was that I have no desire to help Amazon (or Mahalo for that matter) make money. If you folks make money from my participation here, from me doing what I like, more power to you. But asking me to spend time to improve your Google Page Rank? No, sorry, that's mildly slimy.
What I enjoy doing is A) asking questions and getting real answers from real people, and B) providing actual assistance to real people asking "me" (indirectly) real questions. If I wanted to contribute to community forums or an encyclopedia of general knowledge, I'd go to Wikipedia. I want to provide real-time feedback to real human beings seeking that knowledge at that time.
I'm sure the BQs succeeded in driving traffic to Askville. But Askville is such a shell of its former self that an infitesimal percentage of the traffic the BQs have driven there actually stick around and join the community. Those of us still there are only there out of utter boredom and the few friendships formed before it went down the tubes. The vast majority of us are very jaded and pessimistic about the site, and especially about the laughably misnamed Askville Management. Many of us (myself included) don't even bother actually "answering" the questions any more, because they changes they've had to make remove any enjoyment from that activity. Instead, we simply comment on the discussion forum.
I will give Mahalo credit, for what it's worth, for being honest about the point of this BQ test. That's something the Askvillians never bothered to do, despite repeated requests that they tell us what the heck was going on....
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When Askville introduced the "Bonus Questions", the site quickly become virtually unusable to the common user. The questions were computer-generated and largely unintelligable and un-readable. They flooded the site. It was not uncommon to have to scroll through 10 pages of BQs to find one or two "real" questions.
They also created the phenomenon of "point gamers" - people who existed only to rack up Askville Gold Points (which Askville later made worthless because of the gamers). That, in turn, caused a lot of animosity between the gamers and the people who wanted to ask and answer real questions, which led to Askville having to introduce moderators and "hidden" answers, which served only make people even more upset.
My personal problem with the Bonus Questions was that I have no desire to help Amazon (or Mahalo for that matter) make money. If you folks make money from my participation here, from me doing what I like, more power to you. But asking me to spend time to improve your Google Page Rank? No, sorry, that's mildly slimy.
What I enjoy doing is A) asking questions and getting real answers from real people, and B) providing actual assistance to real people asking "me" (indirectly) real questions. If I wanted to contribute to community forums or an encyclopedia of general knowledge, I'd go to Wikipedia. I want to provide real-time feedback to real human beings seeking that knowledge at that time.
I'm sure the BQs succeeded in driving traffic to Askville. But Askville is such a shell of its former self that an infitesimal percentage of the traffic the BQs have driven there actually stick around and join the community. Those of us still there are only there out of utter boredom and the few friendships formed before it went down the tubes. The vast majority of us are very jaded and pessimistic about the site, and especially about the laughably misnamed Askville Management. Many of us (myself included) don't even bother actually "answering" the questions any more, because they changes they've had to make remove any enjoyment from that activity. Instead, we simply comment on the discussion forum.
I will give Mahalo credit, for what it's worth, for being honest about the point of this BQ test. That's something the Askvillians never bothered to do, despite repeated requests that they tell us what the heck was going on....
May 13, 2009 06:17 AM
@mritty: That makes total sense to me. Forcing folks to weed through illogical/unreadable questions generated by computer is just dumb... I wonder why they did that? They must have started getting a sick amount of SEO traffic and figured it was a quick way to grow the site.
From my perspective, and given your feedback, I think the "bonus question" concept could work if:
a) they are intelligent/understandable questions
b) they do interfere with the normal question flow on the homepage and categories
c) they are fun to answer
d) they are helpful to users
I'm not sure yet if the "best plumber in cityname" test will pass or not. It will take a month to figure that out. I do know we're going to talk to you guys about it and not break those four rules above.
Thanks for sharing the history of Askville... i hope we can get those folks over to Mahalo to hang out with the super cool community here.
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From my perspective, and given your feedback, I think the "bonus question" concept could work if:
a) they are intelligent/understandable questions
b) they do interfere with the normal question flow on the homepage and categories
c) they are fun to answer
d) they are helpful to users
I'm not sure yet if the "best plumber in cityname" test will pass or not. It will take a month to figure that out. I do know we're going to talk to you guys about it and not break those four rules above.
Thanks for sharing the history of Askville... i hope we can get those folks over to Mahalo to hang out with the super cool community here.
May 12, 2009 09:49 PM
I understand the search engine results promotion and that may help people find the site say if they are looking for a plumber, overall I don't like these spam type questions. I much prefer real people asking real questions. With the whole tipping system, this site should catch on with the masses in no time. There are so many people that want to make money online and this is a great site for it.
The spam questions are no good, I mean I just asked a question and it just got pushed off the front page immediately by a bunch of automatic post asking about recipes.
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May 12, 2009 10:19 PM
One way for it to have been done better would be to announce it first or at the time of the roll-out. I also agree that taking them out of the general roll/lists of questions would have been a great idea. I was also somewhat frustrated that the some of the answers that were done seemed to be copies of ads for various companies rather than recommendations or ratings from other services/lists. As a bonus to my photo, my favorite plumber/septic tank service logo:
"A Straight Flush is Always Better than a Full House"
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May 14, 2009 05:26 PM
As a fairly new member, I am totally confused. If we answer these "test" questions can we get the tip? Should we vote on the ones that are undecided. 1. Thoughts on the test, I think you may have made the mistake of trying to fix something that wasn't broken in the first place. I feel deceived and a little silly because I was answering these as any other question even though I thought it was very weird that there were so many.
2. Thoughts on doing this better? Tell members ahead of time what you are doing, why, how it works, etc. Don't flood the main part of Mahalo with these questions. Find a way to make it in a separate section. Recruit members who are willing to answer the test questions after they know the purpose. Make it worth members time to go to that section and answer as many as they want.
3. Thoughts on expanding this?
I don't see how you can expand it without fundamentally changing the foundation of the way Mahalo works at present. See comment 1.
4. favorite plumber/plumbing related photo/video?
Mahalo Plumbing chaos....
http://www.harrysplumbingandheating.com/resources/images/clients/0000006153.000.20081211094716.50c3e8a191498fe6e2f8402248090ab8134b6545.jpeg
Source(s):
http://www.harrysplumbingandheating.com
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May 15, 2009 09:23 AM
I find this tactic questionable. Google offers much better data for local search than Mahalo can, and Mahalo will never outrank Google Local for a local search. But on the other hand... Mahalo has something that Google doesn't: human editors. So if the results can be complemented with people who actually use the services and comment on them - in a more human way that just quick reviews, it could be a plus.
But shouldn't this be placed on a specific category or somethings, instead of "polluting" the main questions section?
Oh... and maybe you could ask these directly at those users who live in the specific areas, for a tip maybe...
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May 16, 2009 07:20 AM
I agree with several aspects answers already given: -y'all should have let folks know what was going on. I feel like usually you do a better job of that.
-these questions should have a separate tab or location so they don't muck up the works & mess up functions the community is used to using.
-I'm all for supporting things that will grow the site I've come to appreciate, but if this kind of thing changes the parts I like the most, then I am much less likely to want to be helpful.
-the thing that makes Mahalo special is the actual human interaction. I am, frankly, wary of anything that messes with that. Answering a question from a real person is satisfying--bulk-generated questions, maybe not so much.
-I'm OK with giving an informed recommendation about, say, a mechanic or plumber I have actually used & liked in my own town, but feel quite uncomfortable promoting a tradesperson with whom I have no personal experience. So I'm not too keen on claiming the best plumber in CITYNAME is X based only on a little internet research. I've no desire to just promote the most well-advertised folks. In my experience the best plumbers, mechanics, etc. tend to be the ones who get so much work from glowing word of mouth that they don't need to advertise much.
-How would the tips work again? And when do you pick best answer? Seems like the most reliable answers to these types of questions would result from as many people as possible answering, no matter when they answer, so wouldn't this sort of question benefit from no deadline to answer? Yet, if I'm going to put in effort answering a question that no one has actually asked yet, I would need some sort of motivation.
I can see how human editors could benefit someone heading to the internet to find a plumber. And I'm all for promoting Mahalo, but not at the expense of the integrity of the site. If you decide it's for the best, please do it carefully.
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May 16, 2009 01:26 PM
I'm irritated now that I can't "sort" and clean up this place. I have always prided myself with spending time to help vote and sort, but now I'm feeling frustrated.
Please don't make a habit out of these tests.
I'm afraid that if I start answering these plumber questions, that it will just encourage more to come...
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There are a max of 100 active answerers here. If you suddenly add 10k questions, the vast majority of them are inevitably going to remain unanswered.
I don't know if unanswered questions get indexed by search engines. If not the exercise is a waste of time. If yes. maybe even worse, as people Google a question, see a page on Mahalo and then come here to find there is no actual info, and it was a waste of time. Not the kind of experience that Mahalo needs to be giving visitors.