There is some writing on this old photo. Can you make it out?
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M$16 Answers
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M$(will update my answer when posted) :D
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M$
Okay, I've used red ink to show my mark up.
If you zoom in on the photo you can see the outline of the "r" in "our" (though it's not easily visible at first glance). "Angel" is pretty darn clear.
I've marked up how I see it as an "N" for the first name. But....could there be another bump or line in there to make it an "M"? Not 100% sure.
But at the end of the last name, the last letter definitely dips down--a "y" or "g" or "j" or "q"...Most likely a "y" to end a name. I just don't see "Nelda"....but I could be wrong. My money's still on "Nancy our Angel".
Sorry, I don't see Nedra in there. Think of "M" or "N" names that end in "y"
Ninny, Nanny, Nancy, Mary, etc.?
Nope. I don't think so. I see where you might think that upon initial glance. But when you look closer, there's more to it.....hold on....a mock up is coming...you'll see....
Hrm. I'm normally really, really good at deciphering these things. But I think I'd need a higher resolution scan to see the writing at the very bottom. Too pixelated.
Right beneath the photo I'm guessing is her name...something starting with an N? (Nancy?)
Then what looks like a lower case "a" (a middle initial)
Then a last name that starts with an "A"
I really wish I could offer more help. If you have any higher res scans, please post and I'll take another look!
It might also be helpful just to comb the family tree during that period. Based on this photo, I'd say our mystery Angel is 15-25 years old (I'm guessing 18-20) during 1890-1910 (I'm guessing closer to 1890. By 1910 womens' hair had gotten much poofier on top, even while the high collars were still in style.) Hopefully that should piece some things together for you.
You know, zooming in on the "last name" some more, I could swear it almost look like it reads "Angel". Could that be right?
@phu, again the "ra" people might think they're seeing is actually something else. First, the script isn't that wide and sloppy, it's rather tight.
The "r" you think you're seeing is the last letter of her first name (which on closer inspection dips down like a "y").
The "a" you think you're seeing is the letter "u" in our (the "o" is very pixelly, but you can really see the "r" of "our" when you blow it up.).
The words and the letters are all packed together tight. For it to be "Nora", they would've had to use a very loose scrawl. I see where you'd get that, but I think it's a mistake. :)
Maybe the last two letters of the first name are "va" She might be some one from this family.
My husband thinks the name could start with an "M", and maybe is "Mary our Angel". I'm still leaning toward it being an "N". Nancy. Maaaaybe Nora. Wish I had the photo in hand to look at!
@gno, thanks for all your help. If you get a chance, please scroll to the bottom at take a look at discussion of the date between @robbj and me.
It just struck me that "Nedra" is a name I have seen from that time.
Okay, one more update:
Because of some fuzzy pixel action, I can't be sure. But instead of the first line being a name, could someone have written something like "Nancy, our Angel"?
If that's the case, maybe her full name and the date are what's listed beneath.
@morriss, again zoom in more closely. I think you'll notice hints that the "va" or "ra" end to the first name isn't what you think. You're missing some letters in there. You're seeing two words smooshed together and written in tighter script than you think.
I see: "N_ _ y our Angel"
Where you see: "_ _ v _a_ Angel"
Make sense? Trust me, look closer!
The chart of letters.up loaded by librarian looks like letters/cursive script I've seen circa 1900. My take without studying the chart is that the first name begins with "N", the last with "L".
The hair style is from mysch earlier than 1923, most likely earlier than 1900. The person in the photo seems to be a teenage girl The clothes are, of course, as much of a clue in terms of dating the photo as the hair. There are two excellent books on dating photographs by the same author. Alas, my genealogy books and materials are in storage due toa renovation and I'm on a borrowed laptop this week so I can't scour my bookmarks either to give you a lead. Check Amazon for such a book
Also: Contact your local genealogy society, historical society and/or Mormon library for help dating the photo and help with genealogy research. I wish you luck with your "brick wall" photo.
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M$
Thanks for the info. When I was checking the hairstyles, it definitely seemed to me that it was from 1895-1905. It was reminiscent of the Gibson girl style. She probably lived in the south, a good chance that it was in Texas. As far as the letters, I think that the first letter of the second word on the first line could also be a "B"
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M$
Google search for Hairstyles for 1883 then Hairstyles for 1893
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M$
To me it looks like Maria or Martha Carroll.
Anyway, if you have a good photoshop type program, create a duplicate layer, then change the top layer from 'normal' to 'multiply', it's usually very good at bringing old text up. also try 'backlight' and 'negative'.
But seeing as you have the original, these are some methods that have been known to work. (Starting with the one that will have the least effect on the paper)
- By the way try NOT TO SCAN/PHOTOCOPY it too often, the lamps in them (normal scanners/photocopiers) have been known to fade ink quicker
1. Blacklight or ultra-violet light source - Brings up faded writing
2. infrared photocopying
3. potassium ferrocyanide if applied gently with a brush, can pickup any trace of iron left in the ink on the page.
This section is from the "Henley's Twentieth Century Formulas Recipes Processes" encyclopedia, by Norman W. Henley and others.
''Restoring Faded Writing''
"Writing on old manuscripts, parchments, and old letters that has faded into nearly or complete invisibility can be restored by rubbing over it a solution of ammonium sulphide, hydrogen sulphide or of "liver of sulphur." On parchment the restored color is fairly permanent but on paper it does not last long. The letters however could be easily retraced, after such treatment, by the use of India ink and thus made permanent. This treatment will not restore faded aniline ink. It only works with ink containing a metal-like iron that forms a black sulphide."
Also have a look at this (They use an old receipt in this example, but the same idea applies)
http://qdewill.com/oldsite/faded.htm
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M$
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M$
You can leave an optional "tip" with Mahalo's virtual currency, Mahalo Dollars. If you are asking a difficult question that might require some research, or if you'd like a wide variety of feedback, a higher tip often leads to more answers to your question.
M$
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M$
As far as the year possibilities - the first plate cameras were made in 1871, with the Kodak roll camera coming along in 1888, then the first mass-marketed camera in 1900.
Source: http://library.thinkquest.org/04oct/01824/thehistory.htm
I also see the "of" on the bottom, not sure what else is there, Just as an aside about that time period. I can remember my grandmother (b.around 1895) writing "In the year of our Lord 19xx" on pictures, That was the standard way of writing dates in that time period.
I know that one aunt's name was Vernor
Mahaloking29, just curious, Why do you think my answer was unhelpful? I am seeing this question as a community mystery and we need lots of clues to solve it...
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M$
LOL
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M$
I'm wondering if is in English or not?
I can totally see what you're talking about. I think it's just old-timey cursive. But I couldn't rule out something else 100%.
When I pick up my laptop and change the angle I'm viewing from I can make out characters but they seem foreign.
Sorry, see above
I'm thinking it almost looks like pencil, but I could be wrong. What do you think? (I doubt it's ballpoint since ballpoints didn't hit American markets until the 1940s)
The language will be "English Hillbilly"
Is this writing in Ballpoint ink?
This is a digital image of an old family photo. I don't have the photo. My brother sent this to me along with other photo's. This one was one of two that were marked "unknown." The family is of the Morris, Stewart, Stanton, Brown, and Knights. The only name other than Nancy that begins with an "N" that I can think of might be Nelda.
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M$
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M$
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M$
Wow! You really have me intrigued with this date thing. I looked at it again, and I think that it says 1866.
Thanks. The problem with the dates is that 1923 is too late. Her hair style seems more Victorian, after 1865
The first word on the second line could be "December" or "Born." I'm pretty sure the middle word on the second line is "Year" and the date is either 1873 or 1893. My eyes have had all they can take for the night though, lol. Hope we've helped!
Just to add to the confusion, it also looks like 1873, 1878, 1888, and 1883. I really do think the last number is a 3. And I can see the 18 more clearly after boosting the brightness and lowering the contrast in photoshop.
Well, 1866 can't be right (unless they're naming her date of birth!). She's not dressed in civil war era clothing, plus the technology of photographs, etc.
I can't see the year at all on my zoom-ins (bummer!), but I'm wondering if it couldn't say 1893? That would make sense! 1883 might make sense, it could very well be that early.
But yeah, if it really absolutely positively says 186_, then it has to be her date of birth.
I like the thinking about the year/birth year.
I just want to warn again, I think Gloria is a big mistake. There is a faint letter after the "a" that you think you're seeing. You're missing letters. Again, I can totally see how you see Gloria. But I think it's a mistake, and I'd hate to see this photo mislabeled.
If @gno is right about the second line, then the second word on the first line might be "born." BTW, my cousin's name is Gloria and her mother's name is Gloella.
Also, I see either 1823 or 1923 in the bottom right corner right where that line ends. I'm having fun with this :)
I agree with Gloria, or at least the G. It's definitely a G. I don't see the l but it could be in there, I definitely see r and a at the end, could have an i squished between. I agree with the born year (I see year at least, can't make out born) and the year I'm seeing is 1873. I think thats a 3 as well, and I can't make myself see anything except 7.
Ok, this is what we (my Fiance and I) think it is:
Gloria Knight
___________
Born Year 1923 (1823?)Edit: Ok. Maybe the dates are wrong. I swear it looks like a "23" there though.
Below is a pic to compare to the actual image with the words traced over. Hope it helps.
Whoa, I think I just (maybe?) had a breakthrough! The bottom line (which I can barely see), the only thing I can kind of make out is the word "of" in the middle.
Now, since you guys can see a year at the end, you know what the last line probably reads?
XDATEX of XMONTHX, 1883
ex: Third of June, 1883
From a contextual standpoint, that makes some sense. I've already speculated that the bottom line is likely either a full name, date, or place. Since it's a portrait, a place is not high on my likely list.
And since the word "of" is being seen by more than one person, I doubt it's her name.
Which leaves a date. And back then, they might've easily phrased the date that way. Take a look, those of you who can read the bottom line! See if you can read anything like that!