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This is a tricky issue to me, and I agree that it needs to be evaluated case by case. The problem is that medical treatment is not a pure science. Doctors make mistakes, apply incorrect treatments, etc. All drugs have nasty side effects that are typically rare, but may harm a patient on an individual basis. Someone close to a patient may observe that what the doctor is doing is not helping the patient and intervene. I believe that sometimes parents may see things doctors don't, and for that reason, a parent should have the right to refuse treatment that he believes is harming his child.
Similarly, some people think all doctors are bad, and not always for religious reasons. They believe that the medications are harmful chemicals and that people should be treated "naturally" with herbs and whatever else. These cases are difficult to decide, because some natural remedies do work, and if someone's condition worsens under natural means, you don't know that they would have improved under conventional means.
Finally, there are people who for religious (but never biblical) reasons do not believe in doctors. These people don't care if all their children need is penicillin. Doctors and medicine is bad. Oddly enough, they are usually okay with dentists and optometrists.
My leaning is that if a parent refuses treatment for his child not because he has a hatred for the medical field, but because he does not trust the doctor's treatment, his decision should stand. I don't want a well-meaning doctor (unintentionally) killing my child over my protests.
If a person has actual religious beliefs about treatment or believes in natural remedies, a possible approach would be to have someone who understands their beliefs discuss the issue with them. As I said in other comments, the Bible never warns against going doctors, but says to seek God's help as well. Jesus refers to sick people needing physicians (Mark 2:17) and the apostle Luke was a "beloved physician" (http://www.esvstudybible.org/search?q=colossians+4+14). If it gets to the point where it is obvious to the doctor that the child with die without treatment, then I think a judge should decide the individual case. Until that point, I believe the parents should be reasoned with, but not overruled.
Tags: medicine, religion, bible, parents, doctors
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So, my answer to your question is yes.
However, the state also has a duty to protect children.
The real question in this case is when the state and the parents disagree on what is in the best interest of the children in which situations should the state "win" these disputes.
My personal opinion on when the state should "win" these type of disputes is when:
* there is potential for serious and immediate harm to the child,
* there is universal and unambiguous scientific evidence that the parents decision is "harmful",
* a jury of the parents' peers will agree that the parents decision should be overridden.
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Depending on the competency of the child and what they know of their medical predicament is where the true answer lies.
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Instead of paying a 10% tithe sure if these people did, just mentioning this in general, they may have been able to afford to get medical help not sure if this is the case.
All in all, it is most likely a case of these "parents" not being thrown into a psychiatric facility! I'm religious, and I believe that most health problems are caused by food additives and preservatives, and that most medical 'treatments' recommended by doctors only treat symptoms and not the actual problem, but I'm not stupid enough to leave serious chronic conditions such as diabetes untreated.
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On the religious thing; people that believe that God will heal their child should consider that perhaps God gave the physicians the wisdom to make the right decisions and the scientists the knowledge to engineer effective drugs.
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The judge and most doctors were W R O N G !!!!!!
I learned this many years ago, i.e. how to avoid sickness by refusing to believe doctors. From an injury four years ago, doctors expected me dead, but after seven weeks coma I am back to excellent health for the right food and because I refused the drug prescriptions.
Considering the death of our country and war in the world, your daughter is only in a better place.
I understand all of this because of my injury, and work in 20 countries:
1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
Source(s):
My many years of experience
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Answered Question
M$2
May 22, 2009 01:24 AM
Should religious parents have the right to deny their children medical attention based on their beliefs?
---Quote---
Leilani Neumann and her husband Dale are charged with second-degree reckless homicide in the death of their 11-year old daughter Kara who died of untreated diabetes last March.
Rather than seek medical treatment for their daughter, the Neumanns, who are deeply religious, prayed for Kara.
If convicted, the Neumanns could receive up to 25 years in prison. Dale is scheduled to stand trial in July."
---/quote---
http://wislawjournal.com/article.cfm/2009/05/25/Neumann-case-poses-complex-legal-ethical-questions
Leilani Neumann and her husband Dale are charged with second-degree reckless homicide in the death of their 11-year old daughter Kara who died of untreated diabetes last March.
Rather than seek medical treatment for their daughter, the Neumanns, who are deeply religious, prayed for Kara.
If convicted, the Neumanns could receive up to 25 years in prison. Dale is scheduled to stand trial in July."
---/quote---
http://wislawjournal.com/article.cfm/2009/05/25/Neumann-case-poses-complex-legal-ethical-questions
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| May 22, 2009 02:49 PM |
Similarly, some people think all doctors are bad, and not always for religious reasons. They believe that the medications are harmful chemicals and that people should be treated "naturally" with herbs and whatever else. These cases are difficult to decide, because some natural remedies do work, and if someone's condition worsens under natural means, you don't know that they would have improved under conventional means.
Finally, there are people who for religious (but never biblical) reasons do not believe in doctors. These people don't care if all their children need is penicillin. Doctors and medicine is bad. Oddly enough, they are usually okay with dentists and optometrists.
My leaning is that if a parent refuses treatment for his child not because he has a hatred for the medical field, but because he does not trust the doctor's treatment, his decision should stand. I don't want a well-meaning doctor (unintentionally) killing my child over my protests.
If a person has actual religious beliefs about treatment or believes in natural remedies, a possible approach would be to have someone who understands their beliefs discuss the issue with them. As I said in other comments, the Bible never warns against going doctors, but says to seek God's help as well. Jesus refers to sick people needing physicians (Mark 2:17) and the apostle Luke was a "beloved physician" (http://www.esvstudybible.org/search?q=colossians+4+14). If it gets to the point where it is obvious to the doctor that the child with die without treatment, then I think a judge should decide the individual case. Until that point, I believe the parents should be reasoned with, but not overruled.
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Tags: medicine, religion, bible, parents, doctors
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Other Answers (7)
May 22, 2009 01:59 AM
Ultimately, I think it depends on each individual situation. However, when it's a case like this one, where the child suffers from a treatable condition yet is denied that treatment by their parents, I think it should be treated as any other child abuse case. To me, that's exactly what this is. If a parent caused their child to die by denying him or her food, it would be considered murder, so I believe denial of life-sustaining medication should be treated in much the same way. I'm glad this case is being prosecuted so that maybe other religious nuts will learn a lesson from it. If they want to kill themselves by refusing medication, fine, but they should not be able to risk their child's life based on beliefs the child may not even share once they are old enough to decide.
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May 22, 2009 04:37 AM
Parents not only have a right, but a duty to do what they believe is in the best interest of their children. In this particular case, the parents appear to be doing their duty in providing what they believe is the best possible care for their child. So, my answer to your question is yes.
However, the state also has a duty to protect children.
The real question in this case is when the state and the parents disagree on what is in the best interest of the children in which situations should the state "win" these disputes.
My personal opinion on when the state should "win" these type of disputes is when:
* there is potential for serious and immediate harm to the child,
* there is universal and unambiguous scientific evidence that the parents decision is "harmful",
* a jury of the parents' peers will agree that the parents decision should be overridden.
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May 22, 2009 05:12 PM
Good answer.
I would add that religious people (and others) think that there are worse things than death. So it really is a case of one worldview and one morality imposing itself on another.
I certainly wouldn't go so far as to charge the parents with murder, though in some cases I'd support compelling that the child be treated.
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I would add that religious people (and others) think that there are worse things than death. So it really is a case of one worldview and one morality imposing itself on another.
I certainly wouldn't go so far as to charge the parents with murder, though in some cases I'd support compelling that the child be treated.
May 22, 2009 04:44 AM
There was an episode of Law and Order: SVU where a kid was told by his mom and his doctor that HIV doesn't cause AIDS. The kid was born with it because his mother had it and was manipulated by the same doctor with his beliefs. What took the kid to get tested with HIV (he refused at the beginning) was when Det. Stabler introduced the kid to another kid that had cancer. The kid with cancer explained to the other boy that his parents wouldn't allow proper treatment because they were strict christians (something to that effect) so the boy took matters into his own hands and looked into the HIV recovery process on his own. Depending on the competency of the child and what they know of their medical predicament is where the true answer lies.
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May 22, 2009 02:21 PM
Just as a side point, there is nothing in the Bible forbidding use of doctors or even medicine. And someone who is a "religious leader" who claims to heal someone of an illness but does not is committing criminal fraud. Fraud is not something that was tolerated in Bible times. If someone claimed to be a prophet, and a prophecy of his did not come true, he was executed. I am sick of religious people following lying frauds who claim to be able to heal.
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May 22, 2009 04:44 AM
There are laws in effect that allow a hospital to petition the courts for temporary custody of children in order to give them medical treatment. These laws were placed when it became evident that some parents were not taking their children in to be treated for medical conditions which at times could be cured via surgical or medicinal intervention. Ask yourself, what child would choose pain? What child would choose death over life? Absolutely none. You cannot refuse to get someone medical treatment...ever. So when parents take it upon themselves to choose pain and death for their child, it is considered homicide in the U.S, regardless of religious beliefs.
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May 22, 2009 06:22 AM
They shouldn't have children in the first place, if they aren't willing to do whatever it takes to keep them in the best of health. Instead of paying a 10% tithe sure if these people did, just mentioning this in general, they may have been able to afford to get medical help not sure if this is the case.
All in all, it is most likely a case of these "parents" not being thrown into a psychiatric facility! I'm religious, and I believe that most health problems are caused by food additives and preservatives, and that most medical 'treatments' recommended by doctors only treat symptoms and not the actual problem, but I'm not stupid enough to leave serious chronic conditions such as diabetes untreated.
Source(s):
me
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May 22, 2009 09:25 AM
No, absolutely not. The state often intervenes in cases of child endangerment and this is no different. On the religious thing; people that believe that God will heal their child should consider that perhaps God gave the physicians the wisdom to make the right decisions and the scientists the knowledge to engineer effective drugs.
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May 22, 2009 02:28 PM
People who do not believe in physicians on religious grounds have no biblical grounds. Jesus refers to sick people needing physicians (Mark 2:17], and Luke, the writer of the Gospel of Luke was a physician (Colossians 4:14). Nothing in the Bible warns against using doctors and modern medicine, although there are warnings about not seeking God's help as well.
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October 07, 2009 12:38 PM
Just to say I totally agree with Dale Neumann. The judge and most doctors were W R O N G !!!!!!
I learned this many years ago, i.e. how to avoid sickness by refusing to believe doctors. From an injury four years ago, doctors expected me dead, but after seven weeks coma I am back to excellent health for the right food and because I refused the drug prescriptions.
Considering the death of our country and war in the world, your daughter is only in a better place.
I understand all of this because of my injury, and work in 20 countries:
1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
Source(s):
My many years of experience
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The old man was still sitting there when a rescue boat came and the people on board said, "You can't stay here you have to come with us."
The old man replied, "No, God will save me." So the boat left. A little while later the water was up to the second floor, and another rescue boat came, and again told the old man he had to come with them.
The old man again replied, "God will save me." So the boat left him again.
An hour later the water was up to the roof and a third rescue boat approached the old man, and tried to get him to come with them.
Again the old man refused to leave stating that, "God will grant a miracle & save him." So the boat left him again.
Soon after, the man drowns and goes to heaven, and when he sees God he asks him, "Why didn't you save me? I thought you would grand me a miracle and you have let me down."
God replied, "You idiot, I don't know what you're complaining about. I sent three boats after you!!"
The moral of this story? Sometimes God sends doctors.
We do have to remember that God is more powerful than doctors. When it's God's time to take you, no doctor can save you, and when God wants to spare, no man can kill you.