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Regardless of what you or anyone else thinks about homosexuality, it seems likely that many if not most potentially homosexual individuals will be "eliminated" or "fixed" before they are even born, through Genetic or Neurobiological screening of the womb before while the mother is pregnant.
From http://www.slate.com/id/2193841/ (via http://scienceblogs.com/gnxp/2008/06/curing_the_gay.php ) here's a good quote...
------- BEGIN -------
If the idea of chemically suppressing homosexuality in the womb horrifies you, I have bad news: You won't be in the room when it happens. Parents control medical decisions, and surveys indicate that the vast majority of them would be upset to learn that their child was gay. Already, millions are screening embryos and fetuses to eliminate those of the "wrong" sex. Do you think they won't screen for the "wrong" sexual orientation, too?
Liberals are slow to see what's coming. They're still fighting the culture war. The Toronto Star, like other papers, finds a neuroscientist who thinks the new study "should erode the moral judgments often made against homosexual preferences and rebut any argument that it is a mere a lifestyle choice." Well, yes. But then what? The reduction of homosexuality to neurobiology doesn't mean your sexual orientation can't be controlled. It just means the person controlling it won't be you.
-------- END --------
Now, whether the organizations that exist around religion, like the Catholic Church, will play a role in encouraging such procedures or not is not known. But given the current rhetoric, I'd say it is likely that the Catholic Church would encourage all pregnant Catholic mothers to undergo such screening procedures to "eliminate" or "fix" any possible homosexuality before the child is even born.
So to answer the question "can religion cure homosexuality". (Where "religion" is being used as a euphemism for an organization built around religion.) I'd say the answer is "yes". The "cure" won't be through blind faith. But it will be through encouraging or ordering of individuals who obey them to undergo the screening procedure.
Source(s):
http://scienceblogs.com/gnxp/2008/06/curing_the_gay.php
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Evolution has shown that homosexuality exists in many species, not just our own. But, seeing as the Roman Catholic Church does not believe in Evolution, they fail to see the proof as it exists and continue believe that homosexuality is a blight that must be cured instead.
Source(s):
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13674-evolution-myths-natural-selecti...
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I can't speak on how the church feels they can "cure" homosexuality. I can only give you my opionion as a Christian that views homosexuality as sin: (and hear me out first)
My thoughts are that the Bible does clearly state that homosexuality is wrong. (The overquoted verse in Leviticus) BUT the Bible also states that you "should not suffer a witch to live" and that liars, theives, and adulters are all in the same position.
I've lied in my life, and I think that to God, the sin of lying is just as bad as the sin of homosexuality. Do I deserve to be stoned? Shunned? Looked down on? No! and neither do homosexuals.
In my life as I grow closer to God, I feel more convicted about things in my life that are not according to his plan. My church accepts me as I am (liar and all) and as they encourage me to grow in my faith I am compelled to remove those things from my life.
I don't think that homosexuals should be shunned, looked down on, or even stopped from marying (that's not the church's place) the best thing that a REAL Christian that wants change could do would be introduce the homosexual community to a real loving God and He will take care of removing those things in their lives that are not right.
(I'm not saying that we should ever tell them the homosexuality is right, o
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According to the BBC reporter in your video clip, the Pope said that "acts of homosexual behavior" are sinful. This doesn't clearly indicate whether he thinks homosexuality can be "cured." If we take the Pope's comparison literally (to saving the rain forests) you might say that the while the Pope believes in preserving the rain forests from harm, it does not mean he thinks that the underlying temptation to despoil them can be eliminated from human society. However, by raising awareness of certain consequences it is implicit that he believes some behavior might be changed.
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Both are impossible. Human sexuality isn't 100% static, but something like gender orientation is immutable once established.
Homosexuality isn't something to be "cured" anyway. It is not a disease--it's an uncommon, yet normal (e.g. left-handedness) state of being, just another part of the human condition. It's completely harmless in and of itself.
As for religious groups CLAIMING that they can "cure" homosexuality (they generally refer to it as "conversion therapy" or "reparative therapy"):
***
"From the available data, four studies reported a "success" rate during conversion therapy of 0.4%, 0.0%, 0.5 and 0.04%. That is, conversion therapy has a failure rate in excess of 99.5% during each study. Considering the anecdotal data which indicates a large percentage of extremely depressed and suicidal clients emerging from conversion therapy, it would appear that this form of therapy is worthless. It m[a]y well result in the death by suicide of more gays and lesbians than it "converts" to a heterosexual orientation." -- http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_exod1.htm
***
There is no major body of medical professionals that, given all that we know about human sexuality, feel that homosexuality is something that can be 'removed' in any way, or that needs to be:
***
"In response to Dr. Spitzer's study, the APA issued a statement affirming its position and cautioning that "there is no published evidence supporting the efficacy of reparative therapy as a treatment to change one's sexual orientation.""
"The then APA president, Lawrence Hartmann, a professor at Harvard Medical School, called Spitzer's study 'too flawed to publish.'"
"A Washington Post article stated that:
'Hartmann noted the study was retrospective, that it lacked controls or independent measurements, and was based entirely on self-reports by people who were motivated to say they had changed because of their affiliation with ex-gay or anti-gay groups.'"
"On 2001-SEP-23, Jack Drescher, M.D., FAPA Chair Committee on Gay, Lesbian and Bisexual Issues of the American Psychiatric Association wrote a letter to the Finish Parliament which discussed the Spitzer study:
'As for the scientific merits of his study, I believe it is significantly flawed. One flaw is that the majority of subjects in the study had one 45-minute telephone interview with Dr. Spitzer and no follow-ups. Other than Dr. Spitzer, I can find no reputable researcher who will agree that this is an accurate way to assess whether a person has changed their sexuality. That point was underscored in another study presented at the same symposium. Schroeder and Shidlo's study (in press) found that many individuals who claimed to have changed sexual orientation during a first telephone interview changed their story at a second, follow-up interview.'"
"David Elliot, spokesperson for the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force said, 'The sample is terrible, totally tainted, totally unrepresentative of the gay and lesbian community.'"
"Psychologist Douglas Haldeman of the University of Washington commented that there is no credible scientific evidence that sexual orientation can be changed, 'and this study doesn't prove that either.' He noted that the participants appeared unusually skewed towards religious conservatives and people treated by therapists 'with a strong anti-gay bias.'"
Source(s):
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_exod1.htm
http://www.outfront.org/library/experts.html
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_spit.htm
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While I have never been down that road, I can honestly say that God has changed my life, because I asked Him to, and because my belief and acceptance of His Son Jesus Christ's gift of salvation has given me the right to be a child of God. I used to have desires for worldly things and to do things that were in direct contradictions of God's will as it is written in the Bible, but God changed my heart through much prayer and reading of His word, and I now I have no particular interest in such things.
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I believe that religion is great... If that's what you need to keep you morally straight, then so be it. Your sexuality is not a moral question whatsoever. Again, my own opinion.
As such, I believe that sexuality and religion actually have no place in the same realm. Religion historically has tabooed sex and made it seem like a horrible, ungodly thing; however, sex is quite needed for the evolution of our species (note, evolution of our traits is a given. Please do not argue with me about it. The human is one of the most adaptable species on the planet. Don't believe it? Go spend a few months with the Alaskan tribes... see if you feel the same about it at the beginning as you do at the end).
Homosexuality is seen in many, many species (I hate to not give a number and use vague words; however, I'm not up to the task at the moment to pull up the fact that tens if not hundreds of thousands of species engage in homosexual activities). Religion as a whole has deemed man "above the average animal" and as such as put in rules to prevent what it sees as abnormal activities.
So my answer, in short (now that I've given the long) is no. Religion cannot "cure" homosexuality as it is not a disease nor is it abnormal for mammals specifically or animals generally.
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Dr. Alan Sanders, a psychiatric geneticist at Evanston Northwestern Healthcare Research Institute, is currently heading the biggest study ever undertaken on sexual orientation. He's looking at the genetic makeup of more than 700 sets of gay brothers.
think the evidence is pretty convincing already that a substantial contribution to sexual orientation comes from genetics," he said. "It's probably the single biggest factor that we know about."
Source(s):
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Story?id=4529843&page=2
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They think Adam and Eve are the first people on earth, whereas we are here through the process of evolution.
People think that the burning red and yellow thing up in the sky is the sun god whereas we know it is just a mass of energy containing hydrogen, nitrogen etc etc.
These people think rain is given by rain god whereas we know that it is the cycle of rain through which we get rain.
People used to think earthquakes were the result of devils/demons getting angry and waging war in the belly of the earth the place where we call hell. But now we know the causes of earthquakes.
The same goes for lightning. People didn't know the reason for it so they presumed that God was angry.
People tend to bring in God as an explanation to every question that they don't have an answer for. But guess what, science answers them at some point in time.
So, be it Pope or the President of the WORLD or whatever, they all will come to realize that God is not there and homosexuality is not a disease and/or a crime. It is part of nature itself and is not curable.
For those who do not agree, I have only one thing to say. Time will tell.
Source(s):
My life experience and my "common sense"
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If you think something you are doing is wrong, don't do it or ask for advice. If you see that someone else does something you think is wrong, give some good advice and think twice before you do so. Don't enforce your judgement upon others.
Few years ago, I also used to think that sexuality has nothing to do with sin. I used to think I can't harm anybody. I am not homosexual and have never been, but I think I was wrong. Sex is a natural thing and it has its purpose. I don't think one should feel constrained by social pressure, it might be wrong, but use your judgement and reflect on what you are going to do, or what you have just done.
I think that homosexuality can be cured (and many other soul diseasaes which the church leaders might oversee), but each person is the key factor in its own healing.
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In addition, homosexuality is neither a disease or a moral choice, it's a lifestyle issue, like taste in fashion or which flavor of ice-cream you like.
Christians want to frame homosexuality as some sort of problem that can be solved, and in reality this is wrong twice, it's not a problem to be homosexual, it does no harm to either yourself or anyone else, and sexual orientation cannot be changed, those who try generally end up miserable.
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Butz meant that the Pope had no business setting out rules about contraception, since celibacy keeps Catholic leaders 'out of the game'.
The same applies for most forms of sexuality. Popes don't know what sex is, so they certainly don't know what homosexuality is. No celibate clergyman is in a position to pass judgement on homosexuality. They no playa da game...
Likewise, no human knows what the Bible means - it's all guesswork. Which makes the Bible pretty useless when it comes to making rules. It's fine as a source of inspiration. But anyone so inspired has to acknowledge it's all an interpretation, and must take responsibility for their own interpretation.
To keep a long story short, it's not our place to pass judgement on things like sexuality. Anyone who pretends to have that authority is a charlatan, a liar, a deluded fool. Too bad there are so many around.
Source(s):
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Butz
2. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,908948,00.html
3. http://www.slate.com/id/2183658/
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These programs raise my hackles, first of all because they appear to me to be a predatory offshoot of the self-help culture, posing a quick-fix to people who in this case may or may not have a problem. It's like a "Get Straight Now!" pill.
At this point I will clarify that someone with a sex addiction may need some assistance--but that that problem can affect both genders, and is not contingent on sexual orientation. Likewise someone who has a full-blown porn addiction needs help, but that doesn't mean that (non kiddy) porn is in itself wrong.
Anything can be addictive, but I don't beleive that religious organizations have any business poking their nose into this arena. The people who enroll in these programs should either be living their lives, or seeking psyciatric help if their "problem" has hindered their lives somehow.
At best these programs, I think, teach the person who has a legitimate problem to supress that--which is not helpful in the end, because it doesn't get to the core of their issue in the first place. It's like the emotional eater who has her stomach stapled, but then turns to drinking or smoking to fill the void, because her pain is still there.
HERE'S A GOOD DISCUSSION OM THE SUBJECT-----
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081103011122AAfaGyr
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Christ and the Church have always upheld the dignity of all human beings (especially homosexuals), but they have both denounced the SIN of adultery and sodomy. St. Paul equates both actions as the same sin. Christ forgave the woman that was to be stoned for committing adultery, but also told her to “turn away from sin”.
The moral of this story is love the sinner, but not the sin. Some level a charge that not all sins are of the same gravity. Even if we accept this premise, how is the encouragement of living in sin bringing you closer to God and salvation. It is like empathizing for an alcoholic, accepting them and then giving them another drink!
Is it natural to be homosexual? Well, is it natural to be an alcoholic? People are born with these propensities every day. However the true questions is, should you make it acceptable for these folks to engage in and promote a lifestyle even if it means that they will destroy themselves and everyone else around them. Is it their fault that they were "born this way"? I think not, but we all have our weaknesses and we all need God in our lives to save us from ourselves. Rationalizing that adultery or sodomy is a good and healthy thing for individuals and society is tantamount to saying that alcoholic deserve another drink. Neither can be "cured" of their condition, but history has proven that engaging in such revelry will only serve accelerate their own self destruction and those around them. We must each live with our own condition, but we should never encourage self destructive behavior in the condition of others.
AIDS kills indiscriminately just like DUI's, and likewise both can be avoided by acknowledging and accepting that these behaviors (risky sexual behaviors such as sex with multiple partners whether homosexual, heterosexuals, bisexual or other and alcohol/drug abuse) are self destructive and can be averted by self control. Self control is the underlying premise of all moral codes. Religions, just like the Catholic Church, Judaism, Islam, etc are based on this premise. Those that seek relativism in these moral codes will paint these and all other religions that profess the same truth as intolerant of homosexuality.
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Answered Question
M$3
December 23, 2008 07:24 PM
Can religion cure homosexuality?
VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope Benedict said on Monday that saving humanity from homosexual or transsexual behavior was just as important as saving the rainforest from destruction.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idUKTRE4BL2FE20081222
The rainforest, which serves as a giant carbon filter of the earth, is being cut down at the rate of 1 football field/per second, that's 31 Million football fields worth of forest each year. When those trees gets cut down the carbon those trees have sucked up get released.
We choose the destroy the rainforest (mainly to build grazing ground for fast food beef) but from what I understand Gay's don't choose to be gay.
http://www.nature.org/rainforests/explore/facts.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/un-poised-to-agree-action-to-halt-rainforest-destruction-1062900.html
http://uk.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idUKTRE4BL2FE20081222
The rainforest, which serves as a giant carbon filter of the earth, is being cut down at the rate of 1 football field/per second, that's 31 Million football fields worth of forest each year. When those trees gets cut down the carbon those trees have sucked up get released.
We choose the destroy the rainforest (mainly to build grazing ground for fast food beef) but from what I understand Gay's don't choose to be gay.
http://www.nature.org/rainforests/explore/facts.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/un-poised-to-agree-action-to-halt-rainforest-destruction-1062900.html
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| December 23, 2008 08:20 PM |
From http://www.slate.com/id/2193841/ (via http://scienceblogs.com/gnxp/2008/06/curing_the_gay.php ) here's a good quote...
------- BEGIN -------
If the idea of chemically suppressing homosexuality in the womb horrifies you, I have bad news: You won't be in the room when it happens. Parents control medical decisions, and surveys indicate that the vast majority of them would be upset to learn that their child was gay. Already, millions are screening embryos and fetuses to eliminate those of the "wrong" sex. Do you think they won't screen for the "wrong" sexual orientation, too?
Liberals are slow to see what's coming. They're still fighting the culture war. The Toronto Star, like other papers, finds a neuroscientist who thinks the new study "should erode the moral judgments often made against homosexual preferences and rebut any argument that it is a mere a lifestyle choice." Well, yes. But then what? The reduction of homosexuality to neurobiology doesn't mean your sexual orientation can't be controlled. It just means the person controlling it won't be you.
-------- END --------
Now, whether the organizations that exist around religion, like the Catholic Church, will play a role in encouraging such procedures or not is not known. But given the current rhetoric, I'd say it is likely that the Catholic Church would encourage all pregnant Catholic mothers to undergo such screening procedures to "eliminate" or "fix" any possible homosexuality before the child is even born.
So to answer the question "can religion cure homosexuality". (Where "religion" is being used as a euphemism for an organization built around religion.) I'd say the answer is "yes". The "cure" won't be through blind faith. But it will be through encouraging or ordering of individuals who obey them to undergo the screening procedure.
Source(s):
http://scienceblogs.com/gnxp/2008/06/curing_the_gay.php
| Asker's Rating: |
• Very unique answer, absolutely not what I was expecting to hear, original research, well done Reiver.
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Other Answers (14)
December 23, 2008 07:33 PM
Apparently, the Roman Catholic Church believes that homosexuality is a disease that can be cured just like Jesus cured Lazarus from Leprosy. They believe that it is unnatural and thus there is something inherently wrong with the brain of someone who is a homosexual. Evolution has shown that homosexuality exists in many species, not just our own. But, seeing as the Roman Catholic Church does not believe in Evolution, they fail to see the proof as it exists and continue believe that homosexuality is a blight that must be cured instead.
Source(s):
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13674-evolution-myths-natural-selecti...
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December 24, 2008 04:50 PM
Please research your answers before posting. The Roman Catholic Church does not teach that homosexuality is curable, Jesus brought Lazarus back from the dead not cured him of Leprosy and the Roman Catholic Church does not deny that evolution exists. It does however teach that all human beings must be treated with dignity (homo or hetero), that Jesus is God and that micro evolution exists, but is not the controlling power in the universe.
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December 23, 2008 07:40 PM
The "church" is full of fear of anything that changes its basic structure. Centuries ago they discommunicated the revolutionary minds that suggested the earth was round instead of flat, because it challenged what they felt was the correct Biblical perception of the world. I can't speak on how the church feels they can "cure" homosexuality. I can only give you my opionion as a Christian that views homosexuality as sin: (and hear me out first)
My thoughts are that the Bible does clearly state that homosexuality is wrong. (The overquoted verse in Leviticus) BUT the Bible also states that you "should not suffer a witch to live" and that liars, theives, and adulters are all in the same position.
I've lied in my life, and I think that to God, the sin of lying is just as bad as the sin of homosexuality. Do I deserve to be stoned? Shunned? Looked down on? No! and neither do homosexuals.
In my life as I grow closer to God, I feel more convicted about things in my life that are not according to his plan. My church accepts me as I am (liar and all) and as they encourage me to grow in my faith I am compelled to remove those things from my life.
I don't think that homosexuals should be shunned, looked down on, or even stopped from marying (that's not the church's place) the best thing that a REAL Christian that wants change could do would be introduce the homosexual community to a real loving God and He will take care of removing those things in their lives that are not right.
(I'm not saying that we should ever tell them the homosexuality is right, o
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December 23, 2008 07:49 PM
Thieves choose to steal, harming the person to owned what they stole
Liars choose to lie, harming the person to whom they tell the lie
Murderers choose to kill, harming the person whose life they end
Homosexuals no more choose who to love than you do, and they harm no one in doing so.
Equating homosexuality with those three crimes is revolting.
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Liars choose to lie, harming the person to whom they tell the lie
Murderers choose to kill, harming the person whose life they end
Homosexuals no more choose who to love than you do, and they harm no one in doing so.
Equating homosexuality with those three crimes is revolting.
December 23, 2008 07:53 PM
I wasn't meaning to say that homosexuality is equivalent to lying, stealing, or murdering. I was trying to lump lying, stealing, cheating, murdering, homosexuality, and ever other immoral act into one catagory: Sin.
Lying is a sin. Murder is a sin. Homosexuality is a sin, but in the same context as before, I've lied and I'm no better than a homosexual. And a homosexual is no better than a murderer no matter how you and I would like to assign the seriousness of level of the sin. Its all sin. All the same, If a church group protest outside a gay activist group, they should do the same outside any home in the US that houses a person who has ever lied. It is all sin. All the same to God.
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Lying is a sin. Murder is a sin. Homosexuality is a sin, but in the same context as before, I've lied and I'm no better than a homosexual. And a homosexual is no better than a murderer no matter how you and I would like to assign the seriousness of level of the sin. Its all sin. All the same, If a church group protest outside a gay activist group, they should do the same outside any home in the US that houses a person who has ever lied. It is all sin. All the same to God.
December 23, 2008 08:04 PM
The problem with the ideals of "God" in general is that your God as a Christian is a selfish and personal God. Note that this is not a "dig" or a "stab" at your religion. It is a statement that holds true with the teachings that your religion professes. i.e. Place nothing above me and I shall answer your prayers.
God didn't say that man should not lay with man. Man said this. This is why the evolution of Christianity is taking a very odd turn lately in that many followers are now viewing the Bible for what it is: A guide. Not a direct line-by-line directive of how to live your life. The stories are stories, told from generation to generation to instill a moral compass for those who have not one to begin with (although if you note, a baby will always know they have done something wrong once they've done it and are taught... religion doesn't teach them morality. Their family does).
All in all, I wish you well in your journey to the end. All people have their own compass and should be guided by this. Take care and spread your perspective with your fellow lambs (again, not a derogatory term. Literal to your faith) and see if they too are as progressive as yourself.
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God didn't say that man should not lay with man. Man said this. This is why the evolution of Christianity is taking a very odd turn lately in that many followers are now viewing the Bible for what it is: A guide. Not a direct line-by-line directive of how to live your life. The stories are stories, told from generation to generation to instill a moral compass for those who have not one to begin with (although if you note, a baby will always know they have done something wrong once they've done it and are taught... religion doesn't teach them morality. Their family does).
All in all, I wish you well in your journey to the end. All people have their own compass and should be guided by this. Take care and spread your perspective with your fellow lambs (again, not a derogatory term. Literal to your faith) and see if they too are as progressive as yourself.
December 23, 2008 08:06 PM
I understood exactly what you're saying. Apparenlty you don't understand that I'm telling you your view of homosexuality is both facutally wrong and morally reprehensible.
Homosexuality is not immoral unless you define it to be. It harms NO ONE. There is no danger being engaged in, no person or other creature being injurred, no one being taken advantage of in any way. The only possible way you can consider this act "immoral" is by the all-encompassing "because God said so." Morality without reason is no morality at all.
Even the Church acknowledges that there are in fact "levels" of sin. Murder is in fact a worse sin than eating meat on Fridays. Look up the words "mortal" and "venial". To say that a homosexual who has committed no crime other than being attracted to a member of his/her own gender, is "no better than" a person who commits the worst crime imaginable shows just a tremendous lack of reality, ethics, and understanding.
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Homosexuality is not immoral unless you define it to be. It harms NO ONE. There is no danger being engaged in, no person or other creature being injurred, no one being taken advantage of in any way. The only possible way you can consider this act "immoral" is by the all-encompassing "because God said so." Morality without reason is no morality at all.
Even the Church acknowledges that there are in fact "levels" of sin. Murder is in fact a worse sin than eating meat on Fridays. Look up the words "mortal" and "venial". To say that a homosexual who has committed no crime other than being attracted to a member of his/her own gender, is "no better than" a person who commits the worst crime imaginable shows just a tremendous lack of reality, ethics, and understanding.
December 23, 2008 08:13 PM
In no way do I take offense at your "lamb" reference, but I'm not sure that I understand the "selfish" portion of my God.
My God gave his only begotten son to die on the cross for the forgiveness of sins.
My God provides for me and brings me closer with my family.
My God does all these things and expects me to not value anyone higher than him. He expects and deserves to be thanked for what he does.
Genesis 2:24-25 says, “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Leviticus 18:22 (New International Version)
Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
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My God gave his only begotten son to die on the cross for the forgiveness of sins.
My God provides for me and brings me closer with my family.
My God does all these things and expects me to not value anyone higher than him. He expects and deserves to be thanked for what he does.
Genesis 2:24-25 says, “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Leviticus 18:22 (New International Version)
Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
December 24, 2008 03:40 PM
More quotes from the bible --> http://www.wvinter.net/~haught/Bible.html. I don't want to get in squabble here but I agree with Mritty, Akuta. More logical :)!
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December 24, 2008 05:09 PM
Please research your answers before posting. Homosexuality has been around as long or if not longer than the Catholic Church and it has been as destructive then as it is now. No one complains that illegal narcotics are destructive when they are a user, but if they are victimized by it, they loudly proclaim the EVIL and self destructive nature of using and abusing drugs.
Christ and the Church have always upheld the dignity of all human beings (especially homosexuals), but they have both denounced the SIN of adultery and sodomy. St. Paul equates both actions as the same sin. Christ forgave the woman that was to be stoned for committing adultery, but also told her to “turn away from sin”.
The moral of this story is love the sinner, but not the sin. Some level a charge that not all sins are of the same gravity. Even if we accept this premise, how is the encouragement of living in sin bringing you closer to God and salvation. It is like empathizing for an alcoholic, accepting them and then giving them another drink!
Is it natural to be homosexual? Well, is it natural to be an alcoholic? People are born with these propensities every day. However the true questions is, should you make it acceptable for these folks to engage in and promote a lifestyle even if it means that they will destroy themselves and everyone else around them. Is it their fault that they were "born this way"? I think not, but we all have our weaknesses and we all need God in our lives to save us from ourselves. Rationalizing that adultery or sodomy is a good and healthy thing for individuals and society is tantamount to saying that alcoholic deserve another drink. Neither can be "cured" of their condition, but history has proven that engaging in such revelry will only serve accelerate their own self destruction and those around them. We must each live with our own condition, but we should never encourage self destructive behavior in the condition of others.
AIDS kills indiscriminately just like DUI's, and likewise both can be avoided by acknowledging and accepting that these behaviors (risky sexual behaviors such as sex with multiple partners whether homosexual, heterosexuals, bisexual or other and alcohol/drug abuse) are self destructive and can be averted by self control. Self control is the underlying premise of all moral codes. Religions, just like the Catholic Church, Judaism, Islam, etc are based on this premise. Those that seek relativism in these moral codes will paint these and all other religions that profess the same truth as intolerant of homosexuality.
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Christ and the Church have always upheld the dignity of all human beings (especially homosexuals), but they have both denounced the SIN of adultery and sodomy. St. Paul equates both actions as the same sin. Christ forgave the woman that was to be stoned for committing adultery, but also told her to “turn away from sin”.
The moral of this story is love the sinner, but not the sin. Some level a charge that not all sins are of the same gravity. Even if we accept this premise, how is the encouragement of living in sin bringing you closer to God and salvation. It is like empathizing for an alcoholic, accepting them and then giving them another drink!
Is it natural to be homosexual? Well, is it natural to be an alcoholic? People are born with these propensities every day. However the true questions is, should you make it acceptable for these folks to engage in and promote a lifestyle even if it means that they will destroy themselves and everyone else around them. Is it their fault that they were "born this way"? I think not, but we all have our weaknesses and we all need God in our lives to save us from ourselves. Rationalizing that adultery or sodomy is a good and healthy thing for individuals and society is tantamount to saying that alcoholic deserve another drink. Neither can be "cured" of their condition, but history has proven that engaging in such revelry will only serve accelerate their own self destruction and those around them. We must each live with our own condition, but we should never encourage self destructive behavior in the condition of others.
AIDS kills indiscriminately just like DUI's, and likewise both can be avoided by acknowledging and accepting that these behaviors (risky sexual behaviors such as sex with multiple partners whether homosexual, heterosexuals, bisexual or other and alcohol/drug abuse) are self destructive and can be averted by self control. Self control is the underlying premise of all moral codes. Religions, just like the Catholic Church, Judaism, Islam, etc are based on this premise. Those that seek relativism in these moral codes will paint these and all other religions that profess the same truth as intolerant of homosexuality.
December 23, 2008 07:52 PM
I don't think there is a common answer to what "religious people" think about this issue, since there are various approaches to the subject in both religious and secular thinking. Questions about biological determinism and environmental influence on all types of human behavior are hotly debated subjects and in the case of homosexuality specifically, quite inconclusive (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation). According to the BBC reporter in your video clip, the Pope said that "acts of homosexual behavior" are sinful. This doesn't clearly indicate whether he thinks homosexuality can be "cured." If we take the Pope's comparison literally (to saving the rain forests) you might say that the while the Pope believes in preserving the rain forests from harm, it does not mean he thinks that the underlying temptation to despoil them can be eliminated from human society. However, by raising awareness of certain consequences it is implicit that he believes some behavior might be changed.
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December 23, 2008 07:54 PM
The only way for someone to think homosexuality can be "cured" or "removed" is to have a grave misconception or two about what homosexuality is. People with this idea are also the kind of people who think heterosexuals can be "turned gay". Both are impossible. Human sexuality isn't 100% static, but something like gender orientation is immutable once established.
Homosexuality isn't something to be "cured" anyway. It is not a disease--it's an uncommon, yet normal (e.g. left-handedness) state of being, just another part of the human condition. It's completely harmless in and of itself.
As for religious groups CLAIMING that they can "cure" homosexuality (they generally refer to it as "conversion therapy" or "reparative therapy"):
***
"From the available data, four studies reported a "success" rate during conversion therapy of 0.4%, 0.0%, 0.5 and 0.04%. That is, conversion therapy has a failure rate in excess of 99.5% during each study. Considering the anecdotal data which indicates a large percentage of extremely depressed and suicidal clients emerging from conversion therapy, it would appear that this form of therapy is worthless. It m[a]y well result in the death by suicide of more gays and lesbians than it "converts" to a heterosexual orientation." -- http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_exod1.htm
***
There is no major body of medical professionals that, given all that we know about human sexuality, feel that homosexuality is something that can be 'removed' in any way, or that needs to be:
***
"In response to Dr. Spitzer's study, the APA issued a statement affirming its position and cautioning that "there is no published evidence supporting the efficacy of reparative therapy as a treatment to change one's sexual orientation.""
"The then APA president, Lawrence Hartmann, a professor at Harvard Medical School, called Spitzer's study 'too flawed to publish.'"
"A Washington Post article stated that:
'Hartmann noted the study was retrospective, that it lacked controls or independent measurements, and was based entirely on self-reports by people who were motivated to say they had changed because of their affiliation with ex-gay or anti-gay groups.'"
"On 2001-SEP-23, Jack Drescher, M.D., FAPA Chair Committee on Gay, Lesbian and Bisexual Issues of the American Psychiatric Association wrote a letter to the Finish Parliament which discussed the Spitzer study:
'As for the scientific merits of his study, I believe it is significantly flawed. One flaw is that the majority of subjects in the study had one 45-minute telephone interview with Dr. Spitzer and no follow-ups. Other than Dr. Spitzer, I can find no reputable researcher who will agree that this is an accurate way to assess whether a person has changed their sexuality. That point was underscored in another study presented at the same symposium. Schroeder and Shidlo's study (in press) found that many individuals who claimed to have changed sexual orientation during a first telephone interview changed their story at a second, follow-up interview.'"
"David Elliot, spokesperson for the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force said, 'The sample is terrible, totally tainted, totally unrepresentative of the gay and lesbian community.'"
"Psychologist Douglas Haldeman of the University of Washington commented that there is no credible scientific evidence that sexual orientation can be changed, 'and this study doesn't prove that either.' He noted that the participants appeared unusually skewed towards religious conservatives and people treated by therapists 'with a strong anti-gay bias.'"
Source(s):
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_exod1.htm
http://www.outfront.org/library/experts.html
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_spit.htm
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December 23, 2008 08:03 PM
Okay, so even making the assumption that homosexuality is not a choice, but a predisposition what says that a true religious experience can't change it?
Maybe homosexuality is something that some people are born with, but...
Do you believe in miracles?
My approach is simpler, as a person grows closer to God, they will begin to see things in their lives that they will realize are wrong in their lives. God will change their heart. This could be turning away from bad business practices, lying, cheating on your wife, or homosexuality. A relationship with God can change your heart regardless of what is in it right now.
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Maybe homosexuality is something that some people are born with, but...
Do you believe in miracles?
My approach is simpler, as a person grows closer to God, they will begin to see things in their lives that they will realize are wrong in their lives. God will change their heart. This could be turning away from bad business practices, lying, cheating on your wife, or homosexuality. A relationship with God can change your heart regardless of what is in it right now.
December 23, 2008 08:08 PM
- Fact Refuted
The fact that more religious societies tend to be less moral than more secular ones directly contradicts the premise that being closer to God helps people 'fix' the things that 'are wrong in their lives', even if the 'wrong things' are calibrated to the moral structure of the religion itself (for example, to a non-religious person, premarital sex could be no big deal, while it's considered a large moral transgression in mainstream Christianity).
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
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http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
December 23, 2008 08:28 PM
- Fact Refuted
Where do you get your information that more "religous" societies tend to be less moral than more secular societies?
Also: I never said that it was religion that caused people to be able to fix things in their lives. I said it was growing closer to God. The RELATIONSHIP (both directions) is what will grow and cause you to modify things in your life that do not make the other person (God) happy.
I have a relationship with my wife. I love her. I want her to be happy, and she wants me to be happy. I don't cheat on my wife, not because it woudn't feel good to me, but because it would make her unhappy. My relationship with her dictates my actions. The same should be our relationship with God.
I have a relationship with God. I love him. For all he's done in my life. Therfore, because of that relationship and my desire to please God, I do not do things that I know displease Him.
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Also: I never said that it was religion that caused people to be able to fix things in their lives. I said it was growing closer to God. The RELATIONSHIP (both directions) is what will grow and cause you to modify things in your life that do not make the other person (God) happy.
I have a relationship with my wife. I love her. I want her to be happy, and she wants me to be happy. I don't cheat on my wife, not because it woudn't feel good to me, but because it would make her unhappy. My relationship with her dictates my actions. The same should be our relationship with God.
I have a relationship with God. I love him. For all he's done in my life. Therfore, because of that relationship and my desire to please God, I do not do things that I know displease Him.
December 23, 2008 09:09 PM
- Fact Refuted
"Where do you get your information that more "religous" societies tend to be less moral than more secular societies?"
Hello? The link immediately following that comment?
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
"I never said that it was religion that caused people to be able to fix things in their lives. I said it was growing closer to God. The RELATIONSHIP (both directions) is what will grow and cause you to modify things in your life that do not make the other person (God) happy."
Oh, come on, it's obvious that a society that is more religious is going to have more people who claim to (since you can't prove you have a relationship with God anymore than I can claim to have a relationship with Odin) have a relationship with God, so my point stands.
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Hello? The link immediately following that comment?
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
"I never said that it was religion that caused people to be able to fix things in their lives. I said it was growing closer to God. The RELATIONSHIP (both directions) is what will grow and cause you to modify things in your life that do not make the other person (God) happy."
Oh, come on, it's obvious that a society that is more religious is going to have more people who claim to (since you can't prove you have a relationship with God anymore than I can claim to have a relationship with Odin) have a relationship with God, so my point stands.
December 24, 2008 03:45 PM
John, you faith is commendable your logic is not! You seem to agree that God created someone as a homosexual. And then you go on to say that it displeases God.
And what you are saying is that a Miracle should happen that would change Homosexuality. I rather pray for world peace!!
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And what you are saying is that a Miracle should happen that would change Homosexuality. I rather pray for world peace!!
December 23, 2008 07:56 PM
While I do not see homosexuality as a disease (rather a choice, one which some people unfortunately choose to make), I do think that religion can "cure" those who wish to follow the tenets of their religion over such a lifestyle. While I have never been down that road, I can honestly say that God has changed my life, because I asked Him to, and because my belief and acceptance of His Son Jesus Christ's gift of salvation has given me the right to be a child of God. I used to have desires for worldly things and to do things that were in direct contradictions of God's will as it is written in the Bible, but God changed my heart through much prayer and reading of His word, and I now I have no particular interest in such things.
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December 23, 2008 10:07 PM
Why during one of the stages of sex ed when I was little ... I'm afraid I didn't really know much about such things until then.
I'm somewhat nonplussed by your view of a 7 word question to be a refutation of fact. Especially since I never tried to pass my thoughts off as facts -- all I said was my thoughts and my personal experience with religion changing myself.
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I'm somewhat nonplussed by your view of a 7 word question to be a refutation of fact. Especially since I never tried to pass my thoughts off as facts -- all I said was my thoughts and my personal experience with religion changing myself.
December 24, 2008 03:48 PM
That's the same argument that was used with left handed people. Or for that matter Galileo when he said the earth was not the center of the universe. We still are pretty bad at accepting the minority view arn't we!
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December 23, 2008 07:57 PM
Well, that depends on if you see religion and sexuality even linked. I believe that religion is great... If that's what you need to keep you morally straight, then so be it. Your sexuality is not a moral question whatsoever. Again, my own opinion.
As such, I believe that sexuality and religion actually have no place in the same realm. Religion historically has tabooed sex and made it seem like a horrible, ungodly thing; however, sex is quite needed for the evolution of our species (note, evolution of our traits is a given. Please do not argue with me about it. The human is one of the most adaptable species on the planet. Don't believe it? Go spend a few months with the Alaskan tribes... see if you feel the same about it at the beginning as you do at the end).
Homosexuality is seen in many, many species (I hate to not give a number and use vague words; however, I'm not up to the task at the moment to pull up the fact that tens if not hundreds of thousands of species engage in homosexual activities). Religion as a whole has deemed man "above the average animal" and as such as put in rules to prevent what it sees as abnormal activities.
So my answer, in short (now that I've given the long) is no. Religion cannot "cure" homosexuality as it is not a disease nor is it abnormal for mammals specifically or animals generally.
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December 23, 2008 07:58 PM
If religion could make you straight, then sexual orientation would be a choice. However, the current scientific evidence points to sexual orientation being genetic even though a "sexual orientation" gene hasn't yet been isolated Dr. Alan Sanders, a psychiatric geneticist at Evanston Northwestern Healthcare Research Institute, is currently heading the biggest study ever undertaken on sexual orientation. He's looking at the genetic makeup of more than 700 sets of gay brothers.
think the evidence is pretty convincing already that a substantial contribution to sexual orientation comes from genetics," he said. "It's probably the single biggest factor that we know about."
Source(s):
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Story?id=4529843&page=2
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December 23, 2008 08:32 PM
- Fact Refuted
I don't have a sincere opposition to the idea that homosexuality is not a choice, but that does not make it right. The same "genetic evidence" that says that homosexuals are born that way also lean towards saying that people who molest children are born with that tendency.
Why is it ok for a person to give in to the biological tendency towards homosexuality but it would be horrible for a child molester to use "I was born that way" as a defense in court?
My point is that there are alot of things that may be genetically more likely but that does not make them morally right.
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Why is it ok for a person to give in to the biological tendency towards homosexuality but it would be horrible for a child molester to use "I was born that way" as a defense in court?
My point is that there are alot of things that may be genetically more likely but that does not make them morally right.
December 23, 2008 08:37 PM
Because the child molester is actively harming another human being, and therefore should enact his own willpower to act against his inborn behavior.
Homosexuals are harming absolutely no one and have no reason to stop other than so-called religious people are telling them "you're bad!".
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Homosexuals are harming absolutely no one and have no reason to stop other than so-called religious people are telling them "you're bad!".
December 23, 2008 08:41 PM
God doesn't exist. Simple as that. And people who look at things from the point of view of God are often wrong about many things. They think Adam and Eve are the first people on earth, whereas we are here through the process of evolution.
People think that the burning red and yellow thing up in the sky is the sun god whereas we know it is just a mass of energy containing hydrogen, nitrogen etc etc.
These people think rain is given by rain god whereas we know that it is the cycle of rain through which we get rain.
People used to think earthquakes were the result of devils/demons getting angry and waging war in the belly of the earth the place where we call hell. But now we know the causes of earthquakes.
The same goes for lightning. People didn't know the reason for it so they presumed that God was angry.
People tend to bring in God as an explanation to every question that they don't have an answer for. But guess what, science answers them at some point in time.
So, be it Pope or the President of the WORLD or whatever, they all will come to realize that God is not there and homosexuality is not a disease and/or a crime. It is part of nature itself and is not curable.
For those who do not agree, I have only one thing to say. Time will tell.
Source(s):
My life experience and my "common sense"
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December 23, 2008 10:42 PM
I don't know whether religion can cure homosexuality, the only person who can cure it is the one who makes the choice. Religion can at most show you the way, but in the end it is the decision of every one of us. God made us free and no institution can take away the freedom from us. Church was horribly wrong when it was enforcing itself onto people and now it suffers the consequences of its own mistakes. I feel sad to see so many people denying God completely just because of it. If you think something you are doing is wrong, don't do it or ask for advice. If you see that someone else does something you think is wrong, give some good advice and think twice before you do so. Don't enforce your judgement upon others.
Few years ago, I also used to think that sexuality has nothing to do with sin. I used to think I can't harm anybody. I am not homosexual and have never been, but I think I was wrong. Sex is a natural thing and it has its purpose. I don't think one should feel constrained by social pressure, it might be wrong, but use your judgement and reflect on what you are going to do, or what you have just done.
I think that homosexuality can be cured (and many other soul diseasaes which the church leaders might oversee), but each person is the key factor in its own healing.
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December 23, 2008 10:49 PM
Ok, when was the exact moment when you decided to be heterosexual? Can't remember ever choosing? That's because you didn't - and neither do homosexuals, you do not pick who you're attracted to, it's probably largely genetically determined. In addition, homosexuality is neither a disease or a moral choice, it's a lifestyle issue, like taste in fashion or which flavor of ice-cream you like.
Christians want to frame homosexuality as some sort of problem that can be solved, and in reality this is wrong twice, it's not a problem to be homosexual, it does no harm to either yourself or anyone else, and sexual orientation cannot be changed, those who try generally end up miserable.
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December 24, 2008 02:04 AM
Earl Butz said it best: "he no playa da game, he no maka da rules."(1) Butz meant that the Pope had no business setting out rules about contraception, since celibacy keeps Catholic leaders 'out of the game'.
The same applies for most forms of sexuality. Popes don't know what sex is, so they certainly don't know what homosexuality is. No celibate clergyman is in a position to pass judgement on homosexuality. They no playa da game...
Likewise, no human knows what the Bible means - it's all guesswork. Which makes the Bible pretty useless when it comes to making rules. It's fine as a source of inspiration. But anyone so inspired has to acknowledge it's all an interpretation, and must take responsibility for their own interpretation.
To keep a long story short, it's not our place to pass judgement on things like sexuality. Anyone who pretends to have that authority is a charlatan, a liar, a deluded fool. Too bad there are so many around.
Source(s):
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Butz
2. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,908948,00.html
3. http://www.slate.com/id/2183658/
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December 24, 2008 04:40 AM
I think not. I was married to a gay guy for ten years. He was a Baptist, and his religion didn't favor homosexuals, so he tried to be straight. He actually became physically ill during our marriage, with asthma, hypoglycemia, and a host of what used to be called psychosomatic illnesses and are now seen as symptoms of mind-body dissonance. He finally left me for a man, and we are still good friends. I know he tried to use both religion and society as ways to become straight and couldn't.
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December 24, 2008 05:33 PM
http://leejagers.files.wordpress.com/2006/07/homosexuality.jpg These programs raise my hackles, first of all because they appear to me to be a predatory offshoot of the self-help culture, posing a quick-fix to people who in this case may or may not have a problem. It's like a "Get Straight Now!" pill.
At this point I will clarify that someone with a sex addiction may need some assistance--but that that problem can affect both genders, and is not contingent on sexual orientation. Likewise someone who has a full-blown porn addiction needs help, but that doesn't mean that (non kiddy) porn is in itself wrong.
Anything can be addictive, but I don't beleive that religious organizations have any business poking their nose into this arena. The people who enroll in these programs should either be living their lives, or seeking psyciatric help if their "problem" has hindered their lives somehow.
At best these programs, I think, teach the person who has a legitimate problem to supress that--which is not helpful in the end, because it doesn't get to the core of their issue in the first place. It's like the emotional eater who has her stomach stapled, but then turns to drinking or smoking to fill the void, because her pain is still there.
HERE'S A GOOD DISCUSSION OM THE SUBJECT-----
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081103011122AAfaGyr
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December 24, 2008 05:48 PM
Please research your answers before posting. Homosexuality has been around as long or if not longer than the Catholic Church and it has been as destructive then as it is now. No one complains that illegal narcotics are destructive when they are a user, but if they are victimized by it, they loudly proclaim the EVIL and self destructive nature of using and abusing drugs. Christ and the Church have always upheld the dignity of all human beings (especially homosexuals), but they have both denounced the SIN of adultery and sodomy. St. Paul equates both actions as the same sin. Christ forgave the woman that was to be stoned for committing adultery, but also told her to “turn away from sin”.
The moral of this story is love the sinner, but not the sin. Some level a charge that not all sins are of the same gravity. Even if we accept this premise, how is the encouragement of living in sin bringing you closer to God and salvation. It is like empathizing for an alcoholic, accepting them and then giving them another drink!
Is it natural to be homosexual? Well, is it natural to be an alcoholic? People are born with these propensities every day. However the true questions is, should you make it acceptable for these folks to engage in and promote a lifestyle even if it means that they will destroy themselves and everyone else around them. Is it their fault that they were "born this way"? I think not, but we all have our weaknesses and we all need God in our lives to save us from ourselves. Rationalizing that adultery or sodomy is a good and healthy thing for individuals and society is tantamount to saying that alcoholic deserve another drink. Neither can be "cured" of their condition, but history has proven that engaging in such revelry will only serve accelerate their own self destruction and those around them. We must each live with our own condition, but we should never encourage self destructive behavior in the condition of others.
AIDS kills indiscriminately just like DUI's, and likewise both can be avoided by acknowledging and accepting that these behaviors (risky sexual behaviors such as sex with multiple partners whether homosexual, heterosexuals, bisexual or other and alcohol/drug abuse) are self destructive and can be averted by self control. Self control is the underlying premise of all moral codes. Religions, just like the Catholic Church, Judaism, Islam, etc are based on this premise. Those that seek relativism in these moral codes will paint these and all other religions that profess the same truth as intolerant of homosexuality.
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Very interesting...