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How can we limit the explotive effect of porn on women? Or men for that matter.
So what if spell check did not like "explotive." Suppose legislation was passed that prohibited contracts to have a clause that gave exclusive rights to a nude picture of anyone under the age of 25. Does this make sense? Would this lessen the economic value of those pictures to a publisher? Any other ideas.
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This question is two-fold or three-fold. The exploitive effect of porn on anyone is a point of view or a matter for the Supreme Court. What is porn is a far better starting point for this question.
Once that's decided, even limiting or legislating rights of those photos to the subject is suddenly a diversion into copyright law. Would we then jump sideways and say that nude portraits that are painted are also treated the same way?
This entire question should be posed as one of contract law. That way, the specifics (nudity, porn, men, women) would all just be interchangeable variables where the real question would deal with the law and how contracts are written and enforced.
Hope that helps.
Once that's decided, even limiting or legislating rights of those photos to the subject is suddenly a diversion into copyright law. Would we then jump sideways and say that nude portraits that are painted are also treated the same way?
This entire question should be posed as one of contract law. That way, the specifics (nudity, porn, men, women) would all just be interchangeable variables where the real question would deal with the law and how contracts are written and enforced.
Hope that helps.
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You understood the question very well, so I wish that you had elaborated. Thank you for answering.
I don't think porn is an exploitative industry. Sure, people are essentially selling their bodies, but it's their body and their choice.
So if an poor homeless 18 year old girl poses nude for money and assigns the pictures to a company for an extended period of time, she is not being exploited, or if she is that's her choice?
I can't name a Cambodian who was slaughtered on the killing fields. I can't name a Rwandan who was killed because he was a Tutsi. I can't name a person who is going hungry tonight. So there must not be one.
If she chose to do that for money, it's not really exploitation. She knew what she was getting into.
Or to argue a different way, people prostitute themselves for money. People become medical guinea pigs for money. People do demeaning things for money. But porn as an industry isn't exploitative. None of these examples are exploitative(well maybe prostitution if there's a pimp controlling her, but you get my point) because people know what is involved with what they are doing.
Plus, if she has no other method of obtaining money, are you gonna tell her not to eat because it's exploitative to pose for porn?
Or to argue a different way, people prostitute themselves for money. People become medical guinea pigs for money. People do demeaning things for money. But porn as an industry isn't exploitative. None of these examples are exploitative(well maybe prostitution if there's a pimp controlling her, but you get my point) because people know what is involved with what they are doing.
Plus, if she has no other method of obtaining money, are you gonna tell her not to eat because it's exploitative to pose for porn?
Porn doesn't necessarily equal exploitation, at least not any more than any other area of the entertainment industry does. The people in the adult industry are there by choice, and I doubt that making it more difficult for them to work would be seen as an improvement in their eyes.
So if an poor homeless 18 year old girl poses nude for money and assigns the pictures to a company for an extended period of time, she is not being exploited, or if she is that's her choice?
I'd have to ask her if she felt personally exploited, but yes, the choice was hers.
I appreciate the point you're illustrating here, but my opinion on this remains the same as above - porn doesn't necessarily equal exploitation.
I appreciate the point you're illustrating here, but my opinion on this remains the same as above - porn doesn't necessarily equal exploitation.
I'm not suggesting that porn equals exploitation. I'm suggesting limiting most of the value of the porn of a person from 18 to 24 to that person.
Have you ever talked to any of the women who work in porn?
Do they feel exploited?
Also, why are people effected by porn? Can't you simply not watch it or turn it off? I do.
Do they feel exploited?
Also, why are people effected by porn? Can't you simply not watch it or turn it off? I do.
So if an poor homeless 18 year old girl poses nude for money and assigns the pictures to a company for an extended period of time, she is not being exploited, or if she is that's her choice?
Well sure it's her choice.
If she's being forced to take off her clothes, well that's already illegal, isn't it?
If she wants or needs the money and takes off her clothes... that's a choice.
Don't get me wrong... I'm not defending porn. I'd be happy if it was never available again.
If she's being forced to take off her clothes, well that's already illegal, isn't it?
If she wants or needs the money and takes off her clothes... that's a choice.
Don't get me wrong... I'm not defending porn. I'd be happy if it was never available again.
The way I understand your solution is that you'd essentially make nude images public domain. Empirically, this has already failed. In the early days of the internet, nude images were freely re-appropriated and distributed as if they were public domain. Yet, the only industry to make money in those days was the porn industry.
I also think your solution is too broad. I disagree with those who say there is no exploitation. However, many adult stars do choose that life, and make pretty good money. If anything, you would reduce the money going to particular adult stars, not the industry. To reduce exploitation, you really have to target where that exploitation is really occurring. I'm not an expert, but I think much child pornography is imported, as is a lot of porn that uses economically disadvantaged women (and men) who may have little alternative. So perhaps importers would have to be held accountable for the conditions under which the porn was created. (this could also apply to other products created under exploitative conditions).
I also think your solution is too broad. I disagree with those who say there is no exploitation. However, many adult stars do choose that life, and make pretty good money. If anything, you would reduce the money going to particular adult stars, not the industry. To reduce exploitation, you really have to target where that exploitation is really occurring. I'm not an expert, but I think much child pornography is imported, as is a lot of porn that uses economically disadvantaged women (and men) who may have little alternative. So perhaps importers would have to be held accountable for the conditions under which the porn was created. (this could also apply to other products created under exploitative conditions).
This is a good point, however I am not suggesting that the image become public domain. I am suggesting that anyone between the ages of 18 to 24 must retain the right to sell the image over and over and that they can not sign away this right. I realize that copyright law will have to change to accommodate this.
It eliminates the economic value. This is essentially ends up being a ban on commercial nude pictures for models/actors up to the age of 25.
If you are really attempting to eliminate the exploitation then you have to make sure the actors/models are getting fair value and can negotiate fair contracts. It's only exploitation if the actors/models are not participating as fully economically as the are, ummm, physically. How about a high minimum wage for such actors/models?
Of course we are talking about models/actors over 18 and who ARE adults.
If you are really attempting to eliminate the exploitation then you have to make sure the actors/models are getting fair value and can negotiate fair contracts. It's only exploitation if the actors/models are not participating as fully economically as the are, ummm, physically. How about a high minimum wage for such actors/models?
Of course we are talking about models/actors over 18 and who ARE adults.
I think you are bringing up a problem which has nothing particularly to do with porn. Artists, actors, musicians, authors, the whole lot need better protection while alive and a lot less when dead. Right now the copyright and royalty laws are made to protect the corporations that publish, exhibit, and exploit. Books are kept out of print, copyrights are kept by corporations 75 years after the death of the creator. Meanwhile performers can lose or be swindled out of their rights while still alive when they should be getting income for their old age. The whole subject needs to be readdressed by Congress with no corporate lobbyists allowed within a 1000 miles.
In addition to your point, we have Bearshare, Limewire and a miriad of file sharing programs that specifically set out to sell software in which the user is held accountable while the developer claims not culpability. This is not like kids using a tape recorder in the 70's to tape songs....they didn't have the technology to share those tapes with thousands of nameless users.
I love your point about things being taking of print. You have to go to Alibris, Amazon and occassionally Ebay to find CLASSIC works.
I love your point about things being taking of print. You have to go to Alibris, Amazon and occassionally Ebay to find CLASSIC works.
The only way we can limit the exploitive effect of porn on women and on men for that matter is to teach our kids about respect.
It is basically the same way we eradicate racism for our communities. We teach our kids respect. Respect for themselves and for other human beings.
Young boys need to be taught respect for women. Young girls need to be taught respect for themselves and for other people.
But the media is no help to parents on this topic. When shows like CSI with graphic depictions of gore and violence are glorified and a football halftime show has a wardrobe malfunction that only a quick eye and Tivo could even possibly see something that looks maybe just a little bit like a titty - and that gets a $50,000 fine (?!?) then we are living in an upside down world.
There would be alot less battery and alot less teen pregnancy if we could only teach our kids that being intimate is special thing and not a taboo "we just can't talk about it" kind of thing. If we could sit down with our kids and say here is a naked body - any questions? Then perhaps there wouldn't be such a obsession with porn.
Have my boys seen pictures of naked women? Absolutely. Have they seen naked anime women. Unfortunately, also yes. but hopefully the message has gotten through that those are unrealistic images of women.
We need to start teaching our kids about healthy relationships based on respect.
It is basically the same way we eradicate racism for our communities. We teach our kids respect. Respect for themselves and for other human beings.
Young boys need to be taught respect for women. Young girls need to be taught respect for themselves and for other people.
But the media is no help to parents on this topic. When shows like CSI with graphic depictions of gore and violence are glorified and a football halftime show has a wardrobe malfunction that only a quick eye and Tivo could even possibly see something that looks maybe just a little bit like a titty - and that gets a $50,000 fine (?!?) then we are living in an upside down world.
There would be alot less battery and alot less teen pregnancy if we could only teach our kids that being intimate is special thing and not a taboo "we just can't talk about it" kind of thing. If we could sit down with our kids and say here is a naked body - any questions? Then perhaps there wouldn't be such a obsession with porn.
Have my boys seen pictures of naked women? Absolutely. Have they seen naked anime women. Unfortunately, also yes. but hopefully the message has gotten through that those are unrealistic images of women.
We need to start teaching our kids about healthy relationships based on respect.
Excellent answer. I wish everyone felt this way. From 1983 to 1985, I worked at a shelter for teenagers. As it got close to the holidays, some parents would drop off their kids and leave. They didn't want their kids to disrupt the holidays. We had one sweet girl that was the best car thief I ever met. She could steal a car in three minutes. Her dad used to praise her for her abilities. She used to make thin cuts on her wrists almost daily. A mother used her daughter in three ways. You know what I mean. And people wonder why I think that some 18 to 24 year olds are exploited by porn dealers. If they are going to strip for money, I want to make sure that THEY get the money.
I would actually argue that this would cross the line. Governmental responsibility is pretty much limited to protecting the greater society from imminent harm. When a person is imprisoned, it is to protect society from their actions until they can be properly "reformed"...and when they are fined, it is basically a less dramatic way of reforming them as they will now know there are consequences to their actions and hopefully be discouraged from doing it again. Pornography is not a harm to the greater society. Granted, it may seem of poor taste to some individuals, but in the end it is simply sex between two consenting adults(over the age of 18) which is available to the public(to be viewed in "private").
I'm not even sure I would go so far as to say it is exploitative. At least, no more so than many other perfectly legal industries. The 18 year old homeless girl whom you mentioned does have other options. She is led through a series of contracts and negotiations, and signs on for the promise of being paid money for her...er..."services." While I understand that you will argue that her choices are limited by her means, she does have the option of attending one of the many homeless shelters, get low-paying jobs and working her way up, or finding other ways to make ends meet like so many others do. But she consciously makes the decision to sell her image in exchange for money. If you still feel that it is exploitative in this case, I would argue that other, more "tasteful" routes are just as exploitative...though the masses by their own bias do not see them as such. Church groups routinely offer the homeless shelter, and send missionaries into impoverished areas. They prey upon those without hope, or very many other options, and offer them shelter, food, and the promise of salvation for their dedication to the church. The homeless staying in the shelter, or eating of the food is often contingent on them listening to the sermons, or even attending mass. If anything, this practice could be far MORE exploitative since the homeless receives goods which are immediately used (shelter for the night, food for the night) and are unable to be invested or leveraged to get ahead in life or change in a direction of their choosing...
You see, although you may disagree with an industry and find it distasteful, legislation is very rarely the correct course of action to correct a problem. In fact, in this case it would probably make things far, far worse. If you outlaw the tightly controlled pornography industry as it exists now, those who wish to watch it will simply create an extensive underground network. This new pornography, free of the controls which are currently on it, will then be able to feed on the myriad of twisted desires of the debased. At that point, it truly will become exploitative...
And finally, don't be too hard on porn. There are very few industries which have had such a positive impact on the world, or in the case of porn, on technology...Almost ALL computer advances over the past 20 years have been spurred on by one of two industries...porn and video games, and every now and then a mixture of both...
With all that said, I'm really not into the whole porn thing. I'm sure someone with a little more research and experience in the area/business would be able to give a far more articulate and reasonable answer. Don't get me wrong...I'm sure I've financed more than one young college girl's tuition at the club...=P...but porn just doesn't quite do it for me...lol
All joking aside, I know I have probably insulted a number of people with my choice of comparison. If it causes you pain, I hope you understand it is simply there as a counterpoint to a claim and no harm is intended. Flame on! =P
I'm not even sure I would go so far as to say it is exploitative. At least, no more so than many other perfectly legal industries. The 18 year old homeless girl whom you mentioned does have other options. She is led through a series of contracts and negotiations, and signs on for the promise of being paid money for her...er..."services." While I understand that you will argue that her choices are limited by her means, she does have the option of attending one of the many homeless shelters, get low-paying jobs and working her way up, or finding other ways to make ends meet like so many others do. But she consciously makes the decision to sell her image in exchange for money. If you still feel that it is exploitative in this case, I would argue that other, more "tasteful" routes are just as exploitative...though the masses by their own bias do not see them as such. Church groups routinely offer the homeless shelter, and send missionaries into impoverished areas. They prey upon those without hope, or very many other options, and offer them shelter, food, and the promise of salvation for their dedication to the church. The homeless staying in the shelter, or eating of the food is often contingent on them listening to the sermons, or even attending mass. If anything, this practice could be far MORE exploitative since the homeless receives goods which are immediately used (shelter for the night, food for the night) and are unable to be invested or leveraged to get ahead in life or change in a direction of their choosing...
You see, although you may disagree with an industry and find it distasteful, legislation is very rarely the correct course of action to correct a problem. In fact, in this case it would probably make things far, far worse. If you outlaw the tightly controlled pornography industry as it exists now, those who wish to watch it will simply create an extensive underground network. This new pornography, free of the controls which are currently on it, will then be able to feed on the myriad of twisted desires of the debased. At that point, it truly will become exploitative...
And finally, don't be too hard on porn. There are very few industries which have had such a positive impact on the world, or in the case of porn, on technology...Almost ALL computer advances over the past 20 years have been spurred on by one of two industries...porn and video games, and every now and then a mixture of both...
With all that said, I'm really not into the whole porn thing. I'm sure someone with a little more research and experience in the area/business would be able to give a far more articulate and reasonable answer. Don't get me wrong...I'm sure I've financed more than one young college girl's tuition at the club...=P...but porn just doesn't quite do it for me...lol
All joking aside, I know I have probably insulted a number of people with my choice of comparison. If it causes you pain, I hope you understand it is simply there as a counterpoint to a claim and no harm is intended. Flame on! =P
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My $0.02
My $0.02
I am not against porn. I simply want the economic value of nude pictures of 18 to 24 year old people to be mainly reserved to THEM.
many accept that the lifestyle is a business and treat it as one. don't know how much real exploitation there is in any commercial pornography.
Ultimately everyone has a choice. You might not like the consequences of the choices you have to make. But, everyone has a choice. I hate porn. I wish it did not exist. The best way to limit the exploitation in porn is rather simple. Stop making it. But, the reality of this is that people are not going to stop making it because there is a market for it driven by base human drives. I have a bias when it comes to the topic. I think we as a species would do better without it. If you just ban it a black market will pop up and things will be worse. So, that is not the answer. Regulation...The government sticks it's nose into to many things as is. I don't think that is a good answer. I would have to say the society as a whole needs to develop character and self control and maybe a little moral restraint.
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I own a soap box.
I own a soap box.
You have a good point about the black market. That probably would develop. It is interesting to me that so many people who have answered this question have focused on whether or not porn is good or bad and have ignored the question of who should economically benefit.
I think the absolute best answer to the explotive affect of porn on people came along a couple years ago.
Very simple.
Require all hardcore porn sites to use a .porn or .xxx TLD.
This would solve numerous problems plaguing the world right now as well.
_
Personal Note: Duh .
Very simple.
Require all hardcore porn sites to use a .porn or .xxx TLD.
This would solve numerous problems plaguing the world right now as well.
_
Personal Note: Duh .
Absolutely right. Create a domain that would put porn into a red zone. The religious right is completely nuts to ignore this and it shows how many of them are more interested in posturing than developing methods to keep children away from porn. Imagine a Google search engine that would not display the xxx domain.
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For the most part, I think that there are enough laws around porn.
Also, porn seems to be a very closed industry where the application, approval and retention process is very tricky.
In short, the people who do it know exactly what they're getting into.
As for the folks who are exposed to it.... well every television & computer has an off switch. The most powerful decision that an individual can make is to use self control.