Should Dr. Jack Kevorkian have gone to prison?
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M$14 Answers
When I was 28 ... I was dating a guy pretty seriously. One night he and his friend were on their way home in a rain storm. His buddy skidded through a stop sign from the road conditions and he went through the windshield. He lived, but was a quadraplegic -- completely paralyzed from the neck down. I remember tears streaming down his face in his Neuro ICU hospital bed that he couldn't wipe away... as he railed against the paramedics for resuscitating him... and begged me to help him end his life. Looking at him lying there with the "halo" and all the tubes and wires attached... all I could do was look into his eyes, hold his hand and cry with him. And then cry harder when it occurred to me that he couldn't even feel me holding his hands. I can't imagine that kind of loneliness or hopelessness. But I still couldn't imagine helping him end his life. I told him I would help him with anything but that.
I have not lived with extreme pain for a long period of time. Not the kind that you know is never going to get better. So I can't speak from that kind of subjective vantage point. But in my heart I truly believe that every curve ball life tosses our way is thrown for a reason. We are supposed to learn from every pain -- physical and emotional -- and every happiness. And to everything there is a season. We are given a very short time here and I think it is up to us to take the gifts we have been given... and those curve balls... and make the most of it. After all... when death comes... it is not reversible.
Granted... ethics and law need to catch up to technology... but until they do ... Jack Kevorkian broke the law and deserved to be punished.
PS. Having gone through the grief of 2 close friends committing suicide... I do agree that it is the ultimate selfish act. Generally, people who commit suicide are typically so embroiled in their own hopelessness and despair that they can't see beyond that to how devastated their loved ones would be without them. But in that grief and despair, they also truly believe that their loved ones would be better off without them. So is it weakness or softness? I don't think so. I think it is despair and hopelessness that penetrates so deeply that one can't imagine unless they have been through it.
The whole time I was growing up... my mom used to say "You can't judge anyone unless you have walked a mile in their shoes." So unless you have been down their road to know how they got to the place they are... you just don't have the right to open your mouth and ridicule or judge them for their actions. There are very few things in life I feel strongly about enough to stand up for them. I am very much a proponent of picking my battles. Judging someone else or their actions, or making a determination about their character or lack thereof, however, is simply not "ok".
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This gets a bit graphic as its told by my own personal experience as a certified nurse’s aide.
When someone is unable to roll himself or herself over in bed they get bed sores which are really bad. They need to be rolled over every two hours to prevent these bedsores. In addition, these people are too weak to get up and use the bathroom as we do. They nust be rolled over as needed so aides can change the depends so the feces or urine does not damage their skin or cause an infection if they have a bedsore. For the last week or so of life for many of the cancer patients I helped take care of the urine was not the color as one would expect, it was red. Blood poured out of them, and it was frightening to watch.
They are at the mercy of the disease called cancer and they cry out each time they are rolled. Yet we must do it by law and human compassion. Many of these people cried out for death to come take them, and it was awful to watch.
I am sure this stuff is what lead Dr. K to help these patients. Yes I said help, because he did help them out of pain, a pain so bad that the strongest pain meds available did little to touch. I did not support this man until I seen firsthand these cancer patients and now I fully support him.
personal experience in the health care field.
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M$Its ignorant to believe this is just another way to say murder. It's even more ignorant to lock away an educated man because he has different ideas. We have terms for a reason, an abortion, man-slaughter, attempted murder, suicide, and assisted suicides are different ways to die, not different forms of murder. Although all of these end in death, they are not all crimes.
All life is not precious, this type of thinking is something we need to get over before our world is overpopulated with sick dying people attached to iron lungs. Take notes from the Mayans beliefs on death, why live on past your best days? If your never gonna recover, what is the point? for that matter read up on Darwin. Survival of the fittest applies to this situation.
Say what you will about the doctor. Say he is sadistic, weird, morbid, or even a killer, but you have to realize your saying this because you don't understand him or his ideas. He is a smart, and well read man, If he wasn't he would not have became a practicing doctor. Also he is an educated man who was wrongfully serving time in an overcrowded prison system, we need this space for rapists and child molesters. I cannot begin to explain how his imprisonment is a greater crime than euthanasia.
For the record, if I'm sick and dying in pain. Please just kill me. Oh wait, you'll go to prison, even if i beg you to do so until my last breath.
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M$He was duly convicted of 2nd degree murder, and thumbed his nose at the legal system, saying ..."“You think I’m going to obey the law? You’re crazy,” he said in 1998 shortly before he was accused — and then convicted — of murder after injecting lethal drugs into Thomas Youk, 52...".
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18974940/
It is the people of the State of Michigan that have every right to determine what is and is not considered murder in our State. It's not up to you, or Dr. Kervorkian, or any other serial killer who gets pleasure from killing people.
If you want to change the law, work within the system to get it changed, don't just go around killing people.
Dr. Kervorkian lost his medical license in 1991 because of his illegal practices. Legality aside, he obviously blew the "first, do no harm" vow right off the map. He has had a morbid fascination with death his entire life, and his advertisement for "Death Counseling" is what got him caught by the Medical board. Before that, he had petitioned to do "death experiments" on death row inmates. In other words, he was actively looking for people to kill, people to try out his latest "Thanatron" (Death machine).
The man is just a deranged serial killer, attending court in 18th century costumes, burning court orders. It's a shame they let him out early, it's a shame they let him out at all.
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Goatead:
I'm saying Kervorkian was NOT wrongfully imprisoned, and there is no legal evidence to suggest he was. How did you translate that to "juries have never wrongfully imprisoned anyone"? Not liking the law is not grounds for being found innocent. Dr. Kervorkian was guilty of 2nd degree murder, he was not innocent, AND he did not die in prison. The fact that others may have been wrongfully found guilty and died in prison while appealing has nothing to do with this case.
What are the legal grounds for overturning his conviction?
As for not having time to be a full time law changer because of being a Doctor, he has not been a doctor since 1991, because the State Medical board, like the prosecuting Attorney, the Jury, the judge, and the people of the State of Michigan have all determined that he was a criminal. Some would say we are all too ignorant to see his brilliance and only the good Doctor and those who agree with him are smart, more than smart, geniuses even. Disdain for opposing viewpoints and unjustified arrogance concerning the unfathomable genius of ones own intelligence and morality is a sure recipe for disaster. What you may end up with is insane serial killer "doctors" who use Thanatron Death machines to kill over 130 people, and a handful of people standing on the sidelines cheering him on while the rest of us clean up the mess and send him off to prison. Hopefully we will never have to do it again, but if we do, we are ready to put the next monster in prison, just like this one, because we have laws that we live by, and until they are changed, prison is what Dr. Kervorkian deserved.
He did much more than punch the button on one case, but even that was enough to justify sending him to prison for 2nd degree murder. There is no miscarriage of justice here.
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Well, if they're in agony, what difference does it make if they were terminal. By the way, I don't know how many people agree or disagree with Dr Death going to prison, but IT DOESNT MATTER. Justice and truth are not democratic, it doesn't matter how many people like or dislike it.
Don't take the HBO special at face value. I was in Michigan when this was happening. Many of Dr. Kervorkian's victims were NOT terminal, as reported in the serries of investigative reports published at the time.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070527/NEWS05/70525061/SUICIDE-MACHINE--PART-1--Kevorkian-rushes-to-fulfill-his-clients\--desire-to-die&template=fullarticle
I know he was convicted of 2nd degree murder. In most of the procedures he performed he had the patient press the button on the suicide machine. This was a case where he pressed the button, so that how they got him. I'm not questioning the jury process, I know he was convicted by his peers. If in his mind he thinks he's just helping people in agony get relief, but its against the law, he should break the law.
So your saying juries have never wrongfully imprisoned someone? and the innocent have never died in prison while appealing their case?
There is only room in life for one great passion, you cant be a doctor and a full time law changer.
I should have gave you a few more sentences keepon, i was in a rush.
I asked you that question because you said it was a fair trial after being aware of the trials details. The jury was swayed by the media attention and his non traditional court behavior. This was most certainly used as evidence against him. Dressing in 18th century clothes and burning court papers doesn't make you guilty, it makes you weird. When a jury thinks your weird, they make you guilty.
I guess i just wanted you to elaborate, i see your point. I knew you were a well read and well spoken man, and out of all the other posters on this thread you know the case better than anyone. I wanted to hear why you thought it was fair.
Colonial, that is your opinion, but it is a small minority opinion. You are entitled to it, just as the majority is entitled to their opinion that he is guilty of 2nd degree murder and deserves prison. I am glad to see that we can disagree without rancor.
My answer is no. A doctor is there to help people, help them feel better, fix what's broken, and so on. Kevorkian was only doing his job, yes what he created gave those an option to finish their lives BUT the option, as far as I know, was only given to those who were on their last limb as is, not some college boy who had a sprained ankle, but someone who was close to dying, if not dying already.
I don't feel it was done out of evil as some may say. He was simply a doctor trying to help his patients find comfort, and peace.
You asked what's wrong with assisted suicide? Well my main thing I could see as being a problem, aside from the idea that people are so used to horror that comes with the word suicide, but I think a big thing would be, would this 'procedure' be abused, would it be used when it wasn't necessary. I feel if something like this were brought back, a very VERY fine line would need to be drawn, and it would need to be monitored like crazy, to make sure all goes as planned, and there was no 'sneaking around'.
Hope that answers you questions!
Opinion
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In 2001 Armin Meiwes put an ad online asking for a young well built man who wants to be eaten. A man responded to this ad knowing that he was offering himself up to die and be eaten. The man was killed. Meiwes was sentenced to 8 years in prison. This happened in Germany. This is just another example with assisted suicide. Another example of it not being okay to murder another person with or without their okay.
Encyclopedia of serial killers 2nd edition
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M$You can leave an optional "tip" with Mahalo's virtual currency, Mahalo Dollars. If you are asking a difficult question that might require some research, or if you'd like a wide variety of feedback, a higher tip often leads to more answers to your question.
M$
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M$personal opinion
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I am not saying that anyone that does not feel good or has a bad day should be able to go and get help from a dr to kill themselves. If there is someone that is ill and there is no way that they can survior then where is the harm in it?? If we will put an animal to sleep when they are sick and know that they are in pain and no way out why can't we give mankind the same respect???
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M$Once we start challenging laws by simply breaking them then we are attacking the whole foundation of our country and democracy. For example, I’m British and therefore do not believe in the death penalty – however, I would never think of breaking all those on death row out of jail just because I want to change the law – there has to debate on the issues involved, and while I may believe one way, if the majority of people believe another way, then in a democratic nation, the view of the majority is what is important.
We’ve seen people take the law into their own hands in many different situations, the biggest being with the abortion issue – in extreme cases, doctor’s have been murdered because they perform abortions – this is not the way for a civilized society to act.
While I sympathize with the need for assisted suicide, feeling that if there is absolutely no chance of a cure, and the patient is suffering, then the patient has every right, in a free society, to choose the time of their death – no law should force someone to suffer when there is no other solution for them.
However, to change this law, there must be debate, both in the public and in congress – there are many issues that must be thought through before any law can be changed:
-Is there any chance of a cure in the near future?
-Is the patient in sound mind?
-Can the suffering be alleviated and quality of life improved?
It’s not an easy debate, but it is important that we have this debate, in an open and constructive way, before any law is changed.
My mother passed away because of cancer ten years ago, and the last month of her life was extremely painful and she was only lucid part of the time – she had no quality of life, and despite heavy medication I really wished there had been something I could have done to improve her life for those last moments. Had there been the option for assisted suicide, I would have discussed this with my mother before her cancer became untreatable and made sure she included her wishes in her living will – as it was, I watched my mother suffer and regretted that the laws were different. Although I would have loved to ‘assist’ my mother at this point, I believe in abiding by laws, but more so, I did not know my mother’s wishes and therefore would not have made the choice for her.
So to answer the questions directly – yes, Dr. Jack Kevorkian should have gone to prison – no one is above the law, no matter how honorable his intentions were.
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spiritalk: well I agree to a certain extent - but if someone puts it in a living will, years before they are in the situation then it could be argued that depression or pain had nothing to do with the decision.
I am more against people being kep artificially alive with breathing aparatus, and other drugs rather than being allowed to die naturally - which in a way can be argued as being assisted living - but I still feel, as long as the person has placed their wishes in a living will at a time when they were not suffering from any disease then I have no right to argue with their decision.
I agree that there really is no way for us to know whether this decision was based on logic either, or whether there was even suicidal tendencies at the time, so I suspect this will never be legall binding though!
I do not think suicide (assisted or otherwise) is the answer to life's pains and suffering. I say this in the knowledge that my husband talked about taking his own life for some months before he actually died. (his reasoning went with they kill animals in pain don't they) .
I could not see living life without him then any more than now when it is a done deal. The fact is we have some responsibility to those around us as well as ourselves. I had thought that the doctors might have diagnosed and found some help while he was living. But it was not to be.
Suicidal thoughts stem from a depressed mind. When the depression passes there is renewed ambition and inspiration to live. It passes with time and change of circumstances.
Can anyone (Dr. or otherwise) determine when it is time for someone to die? NO that is not their responsibility. Even the individual themselves are never balanced enough to make that determination. Perhaps that is why life and death is in the hands of the God of our own understanding. A time to live and a time to die is given to all of us.
God bless, J
simeyc: Point well taken. We have living wills to cover the event of being kept alive on machines. I think that is a whole other discussion, but I do not agree that is life at all.
Quality of life has been mentioned as well. There isn't much life in living and suffering. I do agree. But I have watched people in pain wanting to go rally somewhat when the depression passed.
I also know of people who have committed suicide and it was their children (young) who found them. The children were never the same carefree beings again.
God bless, J
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M$The argument should not be whether or not assisted suicide is right. You asked the question should the Dr. go to jail. The simple answer is YES. He broke the existing law.
If you wish to change the law, work in the direction of change. But do not ignore the law and not expect consequences.
Now continue your debate on assisted suicide..............
God bless, J
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