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 M¢25  Funded By Mahalo ? |  August 19, 2009 02:01 PM

Does organic evolution violate the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics?

Should evolution be consider a theory?
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August 20, 2009 11:52 AM
The first and second laws of thermodynamics:

1. Matter and energy can be converted from one form to another but cannot be created or destroyed. The amount of matter + energy in the universe is constant.

2. Whenever the state of a system changes, the potential energy of the end state will always be less than the energy of the initial state. All changes of state result in a decrease in potential energy, which can also be stated as an increase in entropy.

There is nothing inherently different about the biochemical processes that generate energy for living things compared to nonbiological chemistry, and evolution at its most fundamental level is nothing more than a series of changes to the structure of an organic molecule (DNA or RNA). Evolution does not violate the first law of thermodynamics.

The second law applies to the universe as a whole, or to any other *closed* system. If there is an external source adding energy to the system, there is no reason why the end state cannot have greater potential energy (lower entropy) than the initial state. In the case of evolution, the earth is not a closed system, since it receives additional energy from the sun. Evolution does not violate the second law of thermodynamics.

In science, a theory is a concept which is supported by multiple lines of evidence. The popular notion of a theory as more of an educated guess than a description of the real world is referred to in science as a hypothesis. The evidence in support of evolution includes the fossil record (as interpreted based on our knowledge of geology and with the help of radionuclide dating, which itself is possible because of our understanding of nuclear physics), comparative anatomy, and the similarities and differences in genetic material between different types of organism, among others.
Source(s):
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html

Asker's Rating:
• 1. What probablist model explains the creation of something out of nothing?
2. Can a plant evolve into a walking biped? Life has barriers that prevent species from interbreeding between kingdoms.


Tags: thermodynamics, evolution

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August 19, 2009 03:06 PM
Yes, evolution is a "theory", in the scientific sense of the word. It should not be considered a "guess", in the colloquial sense of the word.

Evolution does not violate the laws of thermodynamics. Energy is constantly being pumped into the earth by the sun, so it is not an isolated system. The solar system as a whole can be treated as an isolated system, one in which entropy is continually increasing by vast amounts as the sun gives off heat. Compared to that, the local order of life forms is trivial.

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August 19, 2009 08:11 PM
Q: Does organic evolution violate the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics?

A: No. The earth is not a closed system, and new energy is constantly arriving from the sun.

Q: Should evolution be consider a theory?

A: Of course it's a theory, just like it's a thoeory that what you percieve through your senses is a fair and accurate representation of a reality that exists indepandantly of your self, and that you're not a brain floating in a vat somewhere being fed information through electrodes.

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August 20, 2009 04:31 PM
No, evolution is not a theory.

Anymore.

It was a theory of speciation 150 years ago when Darwin first came up with it, but now that we've had 150 years of scientific investigation and vigerous debate and extended the theory in all kinds of complex ways, we have something called "evolutionary science" that has its roots in the "theory of evolution."

I mean, we don't run around talking about the controversial "Theory of Biology" or the "Theory of Chemistry" or the "Theory of Astronony" right?

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