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davepamn davepamn
 

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 M¢25  Funded By Mahalo ? |  November 04, 2009 03:36 PM

Can the Universe be thought of as the sum of its parts?

Does reality exist in space and time?
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opher opher
 
 November 04, 2009 04:54 PM
The question is not very clear. What are the parts you'd be summing over? If those parts include e.g. all mass, energy, dark matter, dark energy, as well as space itself with all its dimensions, both space-like and time-like, then I'd say yes. However, if you only include the "stuff" but not the metric (i.e. space-time) I'd say no.

As for reality, if we leave aside the questions of what is reality, and does it "really" exist and assume for the purpose of this discussion that reality exists, and is the totality of what exists, I'd venture that reality would in that case be equivalent to the universe. If that's so, then reality does not exist *in* space and time, but rather *is* space and time, and everything that's in space and time.
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davepamn davepamn
 
November 04, 2009 05:28 PM
Langan says, "Realty must be thought of as holistic because the basic conditions for existence are embodied in the manifold, which equals the whole."

Langan implies a manifold exist outside of timespace which contains other realities. Therefore, the universe can not be thought of as the sum of its parts.

You've correctly identified parts existing in timespace. What is the manifold that Langan is referring too?

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opher opher
 
November 04, 2009 05:51 PM
I'm not familiar with Langan's work, so I will not be able to comment on it except through what you quote. Based on your quotes I'd make the following observations.
- Claiming the existence of something outside space-time goes beyond physics into meta-physics. This is not something I believe to be measurable or testable. As long as the math he uses is self-consistent, he may have come up with a viable hypothesis as to how things may be. This could be accurate, or it could be a way things could have been, which is not how things happen to actually be.
- Some of this rests on semantics. It may be possible to define one (or more) of the dimensions of space-time as being the direction in which alternate realities would hypothetically lie. If this is so, then space-time would in fact be that manifold you quote Langan as speculating about.
- I don't know what manifold Langan is referring to, but as stated in my previous point, it could be defined to be a more complete representation of space-time.

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docbrown docbrown
 
November 05, 2009 08:18 AM
Fear not, Langen's mathematics is not consistent.

http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2008/02/two_for_one_crackpot_physics_a.php

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opher opher
 
November 05, 2009 01:20 PM
And here I was, trying to avoid making assertions about the quality of someone's theories I had never heard about... Thanks @docbrown.

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davepamn davepamn
 
November 05, 2009 08:04 PM
Quantum physics exists in the realm of metaphysical. Quantum physics works and is predictable but the reasons or causes are unknown.

The universe seems informational and decoding the language of objects suggests a grammer exists describing the Universe as a contained Powerset.

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docbrown docbrown
 
November 06, 2009 01:01 AM
That is just wordplay. Science doesn't work under the assumption that "The universe seems informational". Such a statement is vague and non-falsifiable. Since science only works with falsifiable statements, the assumption does not fall into the realm of science.

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davepamn davepamn
 
November 06, 2009 04:16 AM
The Universe could be represented by a computer. Data is equivalent to bits of information.

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opher opher
 
November 06, 2009 04:25 AM
Saying that "Data is equivalent to bits of information" is a bit redundant, but does not lead to the conclusion you draw that "The Universe could be represented by a computer." Anything can be represented by anything else, but the question then remains, how accurate and valid is the representation, and how well can we use its behavior to predict the behavior of the represented system or object. It is clear that a computer program cannot model accurately the entire universe, at least not while the programmers don't know everything about said universe. This leaves aside the question of computational speed. Today's fastest computers take hours to fully describe models of what happens when one proton interacts with one other proton at a center of mass energy of several TeV over a period of about 10^-23 seconds. Try modeling a universe with 10^40 particles or more during a time span of ~5x10^17 seconds (i.e. a few 10^40 times longer) and you'll not have enough time and enough computers before our suns grows cold to calculate everything in the universe.

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davepamn davepamn
 
November 06, 2009 04:28 AM
All Quantum physics could be simulated by a Quantum computer. The QC becomes the representation of physic world, in that sense.

If the universe could be decoded into a reverse machine then an infinite level of computation capability would be possible, a perpetual motion machine. Computation currently uses heat and energy and has limits.

Quote from "Decoding the Universe"
Bits can be added without consuming energy or increasing the energy of the universe. You can multiple bits. You can negate them. But one action in a computer generates heat, which when dissipated into the environment, increases the entropy in the universe. That action is erasing a bit

Shannon figured out how much energy was required to transmit a bit from place to place under certain conditions.

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owl owl
 
November 04, 2009 05:57 PM
Let me give you some very straight answers and not confusing details.

Ans.1. Yes! The Universe can be thought as a sum of its parts, whatever the parts may be. This is but obvious.

Ans.2. Yes! Realty exists in Time and Space and a lot of progress has already been made in the direction of defining their equations. Don't be surprised if you see a real Time Machine in the next 25 years.

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davepamn davepamn
 
November 05, 2009 08:09 PM
Tacheons exist outside time space.

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opher opher
 
November 06, 2009 01:33 AM
First off, tachyons have not been proven to exist. Second, if they do exist, tachyons would not be outside of space and time. They would in fact exist within space-time, but their world-line would be outside the light-cone of whatever point they traveled through.

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davepamn davepamn
 
November 06, 2009 04:17 AM
Tacheons are predicted to arrive before they depart. The Tacheon travels back in time.

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davepamn davepamn
 
November 06, 2009 04:18 AM
The concept of the Multi-universe suggest that universes are being created constantly in other dimensions.

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opher opher
 
November 06, 2009 04:19 AM
No. Tachyons are hypothetical particles that can only travel faster than light. They cannot arrive before they depart, and they do not travel backward in time. They do, however, travel from point to point faster than any non-tachyonic information could travel which would allow us to determine if the tachyon's time of arrival was later or earlier than the time of departure.

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