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 M¢47  Funded By Mahalo ? |  September 15, 2009 05:11 PM

If, in the USA, a candidate is elected president while serving time in Federal Penitentiary, can he pardon himself?

Eugene Debs ran for the Presidency in 1920 while in jail and received 3.4% of the vote. What if he had won? Would he have been able to pardon himself, or would he have been unable to be sworn in to take office, or, well, how would you say the situation would have legally worked itself out according to the constitution and law (not how you think it should have turned out)?
(ps. The guy who won Harding, is now generally considered one of the worst presidents ever, if not the worst. Maybe Debs would have been better, but that's another question...)
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September 16, 2009 12:52 AM
The constitution doesn't say much except the President can't use his pardon to protect against impeachment. So he could not keep himself from being impeached but otherwise I guess he probably could. His crime would have to be a federal crime, Presidents can't grant pardons for state crimes.
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September 16, 2009 01:24 AM
Yes, I specified Federal Penitentiary. Not involving impeachment is one issue, he'd be ok on that.

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September 16, 2009 03:20 AM
Interesting, I took my own advice to look at his wikipedia page. He was pardoned by Harding.

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September 16, 2009 01:15 PM
Since no one has been doing much analysis I'll do some. Let's do a timeline. Election Day comes and the the papers report his surprise victory. Next morning the Federal Judge nearest the prison tells Debs' lawyers "Bah, that's just the media." A week or so later all the states have announced their results, but the judge says "So what? He's not elected until the Electoral College meets and elects him." A few weeks later the Electoral College meets and elects Debs. Back to the judge, who says "Since when is being president elect a get-out -of -jail-free card? Come back with a pardon." The current President could pardon Debs, but we know what President Wilson wrote on Debs' pardon application: "Never!". So, Debs stays in jail until Innaugeration Day. On Innaugeration Day the prison chaplain administers the oath of office. Now we come to the real questions. Is the swearing in valid? Why not? Debs is now president, but can he carry out his duties from jail? It doesn't seem likely, so is he therefore unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office? If so, does the Vice President become acting president? Or, is Debs able to discharge his duties to the extent of writing himself a pardon? Who decides? Who would have decided in 1920? Can he pardon himself? Why not? If Debs and his Vice President Seymore Stedman both signed the pardon, would that convince a judge? Would the judge have demanded a law from Congress to clarify the situation? It seems like an interesting question to me.

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September 16, 2009 09:08 PM - New Source
Does it say anywhere that the person running for Presidency has to even be human?

While it's a consequential requirement (citizenship, etc), it may not actually state that requirement. Does that mean if you can get citizenship for your dog that your dog can run for President?

I believe the argument about not being able to prevent ones own impeachment could be used as a case against being able to pardon oneself too. So while there "may" not be explicit rulings on the subject (I'm guessing only @albanian knows for sure at this point), I can imagine Impeachment proceedings being started because an incarcerated President wouldn't be able to perform all the duties of the President unrestricted.

Alfred E. Newman used to get votes too, and he's not even a real person.

http://www.collectmad.com/COLLECTIBLES/aenforprezposter.jpg

Source: http://www.collectmad.com/COLLECTIBLES/aenpr60.htm

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September 16, 2009 10:54 PM
It hinges on the definition of "person". Also, of course:"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States." According to Webster, a "person" is a human being, at least in the main meaning. None of the other meanings could be stretched to fit a dog, even if it was 35 years old. However, should the case of a humanoid alien like a Vulcan ever come up, or a zombie, that would be something for the courts to mull over.

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September 15, 2009 07:00 PM
I honestly dont think anyone in a federal prison could win....but on the off chance I guess he would have to be let go without even needing to pardon himself.

I mean think about it, how many people would want to say I made the President my prison....

Not to mention, if he did win I am sure he would be able to pay his on bail.

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September 15, 2009 07:26 PM
yeah idk maybe he would be able to pardon himself...but in all honesty, who would vote for a candidate in jail? I'm actually really surprised that Debs got 3.4% of the votes...that is definitely 3.4% too many.

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September 16, 2009 01:29 AM
That is not legal at all. A Federal judge would have to order the release, and he would have to have a reason. And bail does not apply, that is only for people awaiting trial not those already sent to the penitentiary.

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September 16, 2009 02:27 AM
Yes but if he became president it would be in any judges best interest to let him be pardoned....who would want to be that judge.

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September 16, 2009 03:17 AM
A glance at Wikipedia might explain how he got 3.4% of the vote, I'm surprised it wasn't more.

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September 16, 2009 09:18 AM
He may not have been on the ballot in all 50 states. Debs would have gotten a heck of a lot more votes had he lived until the 1932 elections.

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