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 M¢25  Funded By Mahalo ? |  October 23, 2009 12:21 PM

What are the Limitations of 1st Law of Thermodynamics?

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October 23, 2009 01:30 PM
The first law of thermodynamics is a statement of conservation of energy. As such it does not provide any guidance on the direction of energy flows from one part of a system to another. Thus, while we know that heat tends to flow from a hot area to a cold one, that is not addressed by the first law of thermodynamics. For more information read http://www.tutorvista.com/content/chemistry/chemistry-iv/thermodynamics/thermodynamics-first-law.php.
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http://www.tutorvista.com/content/chemistry/chemistry-iv/thermodynamics/the....



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October 24, 2009 06:21 AM
First Law of Thermodynamics States that,Energy can neither be created nor be destroyed, it can be only converted from one form to another.

Limitations of 1st Law Of Thermodynamics
1) As it says energy can be converted from one form to another, it don't states how and how much energy is converted.

2) Suppose electrical energy is converted into heat by means of heater, and if same amount of heat is given to heater, it will not generate that amount of electricity. That is low is unidirectional.

3) The Law don't consider losses in conversion.

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Voted as best: pellrider, chriswingate, xds
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October 26, 2009 08:23 AM
1st Law states that the energy remains conserved but it doesn’t indicate

1. The direction of heat transfer.
2. The conditions under which heat can be converted into work.
3. It doesn’t tell why the whole of heat energy cannot be converted into mechanical work.
4. There are many irreversible process occur in nature. 1st law cannot explain the lack of reversibility ex: heat flows naturally from a hot body to cold body but heat will never of itself flow from a cold body to a hot body.
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http://www.examville.com


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Voted as best: kerryk
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October 27, 2009 08:42 AM
One important thing to realize about thermodynamics is that it is all about averages for huge numbers of things (atoms, molecules, etc.). So all of the "laws" of thermodynamics are talking about average behavior - like the second law that says entropy of a closed system cannot decrease. If the system is small enough (it has to be pretty small - like a few molecules), different laws can come into play, like quantum mechanics and other swear words in graduate physics departments. :-)
The first law is pretty solid - it is the first law, after all. But even it is "wrong" - we all know that nuclear fission and fusion reactions can transform matter into energy, effectively creating energy in a closed system!
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Just from my experience learning and teaching thermodynamics and other unmentionable subjects in university.


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Voted as best: lilyloretta, girlieq3000
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October 27, 2009 01:23 PM
Wouldn't you agree that if you take E=mc^2 into account, and count the energy of gamma rays released, and of nuclear binding energy, the energy in the system is preserved even in fission and fusion reactions? Of course once you stray into quantum mechanics you can have energy non-conservation, but only for very very short times (order of h-bar divided by delta-E, as in the ratio of Planck's constant and the magnitude of the created/destroyed energy).

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October 27, 2009 11:12 PM
E=mc^2 is the conversion factor that tells you the maximum amount of energy you can get from a particular amount of matter - the ratio is the square of the speed of light, which is pretty amazing if you think about it!
You can think of this equation as Einstein "proving" that the 1st law of thermodynamics is wrong, since the 1st law says that the only way energy in a closed system can increase is if it is brought in from outside the system, and Einstein says "Wait - I know another way: you can get it from inside the system by changing the matter in the system to energy!".

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