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Hey Rob --
The bottom line is the dev team is super-overloaded, can't be everywhere at once (most of the time, anyway :) ).
Much of the time, my life is the 'art of the possible', if you will: prioritizing many competing things. This was one battle we chose not to fight ... but we may indeed have to fight it, as you suggest. Every time we do something like this, however, that means something else moves OFF the table and does not get done.
The startups that succeed are the ones that maintain focus and 'eat of the land' (Art of War, in our world, meaning don't re-invent the wheel / use open source). Focus on core competencies.
But this many now BE a core competency of the new system. So we'll have to have a serious look at it on Monday, I think.
- Mark
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I guess they figure that if Google Analytics has a very detailed statistics engine that is free, why should they make employees work on an entirely new stats engine? Wouldn't it be better to fix up all of the Mahalo bugs and add new features?
Tags: googleanalytics, mahalo, google, stats, pages
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So, for now we have older stats that are a little off and in 10 days I think we'll have our own system built (or GA figured out).
The system for Mahalo Answers page tracking is our own FYI. We're just trying to avoid having to build our own tracking system because of the database server strain.
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The system will need to meet their business requirements and user activities needs.
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Cost and time constraints
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Answered Question
M$1
June 14, 2009 04:48 PM
Why are the Mahalo SERP page views pulled from Google Analytics using their API?
Of what little I know of the coders at Mahalo, they're wicked smart. If there was a giant asteroid that was going to collide with the Earth and the only way it could be diverted was to send a crew of programmers into space to change the course of the giant rock, the government would seek out Mark and his team for the job.
So, I know there is a solid reason behind this....
The pageview stats aren't real time because they pull the stats through the Google analytics API. Why aren't these stats compiled locally? Wouldn't this avoid the pageview lag and generally be more accurate? Is it to reduce processing and storage resources? Why not dedicate a couple of servers to in-house anaylitics?
I'm interested about this because I think that there is something new for me to learn.
So, I know there is a solid reason behind this....
The pageview stats aren't real time because they pull the stats through the Google analytics API. Why aren't these stats compiled locally? Wouldn't this avoid the pageview lag and generally be more accurate? Is it to reduce processing and storage resources? Why not dedicate a couple of servers to in-house anaylitics?
I'm interested about this because I think that there is something new for me to learn.
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| June 15, 2009 12:15 AM |
The bottom line is the dev team is super-overloaded, can't be everywhere at once (most of the time, anyway :) ).
Much of the time, my life is the 'art of the possible', if you will: prioritizing many competing things. This was one battle we chose not to fight ... but we may indeed have to fight it, as you suggest. Every time we do something like this, however, that means something else moves OFF the table and does not get done.
The startups that succeed are the ones that maintain focus and 'eat of the land' (Art of War, in our world, meaning don't re-invent the wheel / use open source). Focus on core competencies.
But this many now BE a core competency of the new system. So we'll have to have a serious look at it on Monday, I think.
- Mark
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June 14, 2009 06:30 PM
Why dedicate resources to an in-house solution when Google Analytics is good enough (and free)? It's accurate and speed isn't a problem unless you have nothing better to do than watch live stats. Also, while I haven't looked, it may be tied into AdSense or other services.
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June 14, 2009 06:39 PM
Speed could be very important in some situations, however. For example, let's say you're managing a page for a popular event such as SXSW. Since the event only lasts a few days, you might want to check your stats hourly to see how they're doing. Obviously for other pages that aren't events or major news stories, this doesn't apply and updating once a day would be satisfactory.
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June 14, 2009 06:50 PM
GA is known NOT to be accurate. There are a bunch of reports and investigations on this including this one from SEOmoz: http://www.seomoz.org/blog/how-reliable-is-google-analytics
When valuing a website for sale / purchase or when making an advertising commitment, it's pretty common for folks to average local logs with Google Analytics with another 3rd party service. No single method is truly accurate unless you're counting something tangible such as clicks or sales.
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When valuing a website for sale / purchase or when making an advertising commitment, it's pretty common for folks to average local logs with Google Analytics with another 3rd party service. No single method is truly accurate unless you're counting something tangible such as clicks or sales.
June 14, 2009 07:24 PM
Rob, GA is accurate enough so far as I can tell. And as you say, perfection is hard to come by.
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June 14, 2009 08:03 PM
"GA is accurate enough so far as I can tell." Can you find any sources that verify GA's accuracy?
"I don't see the value in hourly updates for any page." No, me either... but when you tally up all of the advantages and disadvantages of GA compared to other methods of obtaining analytics, why does GA win here?
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"I don't see the value in hourly updates for any page." No, me either... but when you tally up all of the advantages and disadvantages of GA compared to other methods of obtaining analytics, why does GA win here?
June 14, 2009 06:38 PM
Mahalo probably uses some of the more advanced features of Google Analytics to track where traffic is going, where it's coming from, AdSense integration, etc. Having a local stats engine and Google Analytics on each page would make the page heavier (both on the client side and potentially on the server side). I guess they figure that if Google Analytics has a very detailed statistics engine that is free, why should they make employees work on an entirely new stats engine? Wouldn't it be better to fix up all of the Mahalo bugs and add new features?
Tags: googleanalytics, mahalo, google, stats, pages
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June 14, 2009 06:47 PM
"Why should they make employees work on an entirely new stats engine?"
I agree with you here - but stats are absolutely critical to the new user contributed SERP's. Not only would I like to devote my best effort to the highest traffic & highest paying pages, but I would like to maximize my belt level limit of pages to only the best of the best. No one has any idea about these things without statistics.
"Wouldn't it be better to fix up all of the Mahalo bugs and add new features?"
Yeah, I have nooooo idea about the list of priorities. But I have to think that it was as much effort for the Mahalo dev's to build out (and in) the Google Analytics API as it would have been to buy and implement one of the well known local analytic packages.
Google Analytics is amazing... don't get me wrong. But I know that it has limitations a couple of which are update speed and accuracy.
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I agree with you here - but stats are absolutely critical to the new user contributed SERP's. Not only would I like to devote my best effort to the highest traffic & highest paying pages, but I would like to maximize my belt level limit of pages to only the best of the best. No one has any idea about these things without statistics.
"Wouldn't it be better to fix up all of the Mahalo bugs and add new features?"
Yeah, I have nooooo idea about the list of priorities. But I have to think that it was as much effort for the Mahalo dev's to build out (and in) the Google Analytics API as it would have been to buy and implement one of the well known local analytic packages.
Google Analytics is amazing... don't get me wrong. But I know that it has limitations a couple of which are update speed and accuracy.
June 14, 2009 08:15 PM
We are probably going to have to build a real-time system ourselves. We tried to avoid this, but it seems like the Google Analytics API is not super reliable. So, for now we have older stats that are a little off and in 10 days I think we'll have our own system built (or GA figured out).
The system for Mahalo Answers page tracking is our own FYI. We're just trying to avoid having to build our own tracking system because of the database server strain.
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June 14, 2009 08:25 PM
Wow, thanks for the answer, Jason.
That's cool... I figured that there was a great reason beyond the "database server strain". I've never used the Google Analytics API to push and pull stats the way you guys do so I was curious if this was something that I should look at.
Building out a couple of local analytics servers will likely be one of the easier tasks that the dev's will look back on after this quarter is complete :)
Thanks again for the answer.
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That's cool... I figured that there was a great reason beyond the "database server strain". I've never used the Google Analytics API to push and pull stats the way you guys do so I was curious if this was something that I should look at.
Building out a couple of local analytics servers will likely be one of the easier tasks that the dev's will look back on after this quarter is complete :)
Thanks again for the answer.
June 14, 2009 11:06 PM
Analytics is a tough problem. I have been participating in the Woopra beta http://www.woopra.com/ and have been impressed with their real time analytics. I have been comparing GA with Woopra and have seen pretty good agreement in my limited experience. Maybe Jason should have a chat with them.
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June 14, 2009 11:20 PM
Woopra is pretty. I've been playing with them for a while too and their real time stats look great. I don't think that it would work very well in a high traffic scenario and it would also be exceptionally hard to modify. But for blogs and other stuff like that, I think they have a winner.
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June 15, 2009 04:51 AM
Mahalo probably knows that Google Analytics API is not super reliable and considers it to be good enough. Good enough allows Mahalo to operate without invest expensive coders to build a new system themselves. However, as member begin to question states Mahalo will have to page track manually, an impossible task. The goals, clout, and intent will determine whether Mahalo can build its own tracking system. The system will need to meet their business requirements and user activities needs.
Source(s):
Cost and time constraints
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Thanks a lot for the answer. I really was hoping that there was something a little cooler than a stop-gap where I might be able to explore and learn... maybe next time :)
Not that it means much from someone like me... but from an end user who has a wee little bit of tech in him, I think that what you've pulled off and the honest forthright information everyone has provided has been truly outstanding.