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To preface, I take this topic pretty seriously. I'm a "professional" photographer (yes, the quotes were on purpose) who sells photographs online. I never want these photos distributed in the public so I've made myself aware of copyright laws and basic fair use practices.
For content producers, the best bet is to use a mix of good old text by saying "please do not copy or distribute", technology, watermarks and image matching search services.
To directly answer your questions:
*note: I'm just a regular user... a Mahalo employee will have the best answer to this question. But it's Sunday and there is nothing on TV so I'd like to take a stab at an answer.
:==:
"The images used on Mahalo come from flickr and google, but those images are almost always subject to copyright" How does Mahalo get away with this?
This issue has been raised before both internally at Mahalo and externally by members of flickr, etc.
Mahalo appears to be very carefully pulls images from a variety of sources for the image blocks you see on SERP's. These blocks are a collection of images that are pulled from publicly available based on a search criteria and not on the context of a page. This is important because (in my mind) it is what differentiates Mahalo's image blocks and makes them acceptable.
Any image author or distributor has the capability to block sites such as Mahalo from using images. Technical methods such as htaccess filtering or setting a flicker profile to disallow API display will easily block content from being distributed but still viewable by the public.
:===:
"When an image is used in answer to a question, used as the primary image for the guide page on the entire site, etc., how does that not violate copyright of the image?"
This is a tricky subject. The DCMA (digital copyright millennium act) has made changes that specifically outline text, image and video content online. However, the copyright laws that underlay the DCMA changes are still "fuzzy" to say the least.
I believe in Karma and the thought that one should "do on to others". Beyond laws, I don't want to distribute an image that the origional author doesn't want distributed. Simply telling me that the image should not be copied will stop me, but technical methods can again be used (htaccess, no leech scripts, referrer checking, etc).
:===:
So, you've entered the fuzzy world of image online copyright issues.
Your best bet?
Use the advanced Flickr search for Answer and SERP images:
http://www.flickr.com/search/advanced/
Click each of the 3 boxes on the bottom of the page. This will ensure that you only find images that have been marked "ok to distribute".
If in doubt, e-mail Lon or contact@mahalo.com. I know that Lon takes this stuff pretty seriously so I'm sure they wouldn't mind having a quick peak at an image that you weren't 100% sure about.
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anything else he will have to comment on...
p.s. any time you have a question for staff, and don't know who to ask... send it to contact@mahalo.com - that goes to about 10-12 people, and the best person to handle that question should get back to you shortly. =)
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personal experience...
Tags: images, mahalo
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If the owner would'nt want the photos to be copied they should place some kind of security code or put in a vault or put some kind of copywriting warnings.
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M$1.05
September 13, 2009 10:44 PM
What is the issue with copyrighted images and Mahalo?
I'm curious, and I didn't know who to ask this to privately, so if this is a question staff wants to delete, I'm okay with that, but wanted to ask a question.
The images used on Mahalo come from flickr and google, but those images are almost always subject to copyright (though some flickr accounts use a CC license on them instead). I'm assuming Mahalo gets by with using the images section because we are considered a 'search engine' that is 'human powered', but I was wondering... when an image is used in answer to a question, used as the primary image for the guide page on the entire site, etc., how does that not violate copyright of the image?
The images used on Mahalo come from flickr and google, but those images are almost always subject to copyright (though some flickr accounts use a CC license on them instead). I'm assuming Mahalo gets by with using the images section because we are considered a 'search engine' that is 'human powered', but I was wondering... when an image is used in answer to a question, used as the primary image for the guide page on the entire site, etc., how does that not violate copyright of the image?
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| September 14, 2009 01:07 AM |
For content producers, the best bet is to use a mix of good old text by saying "please do not copy or distribute", technology, watermarks and image matching search services.
To directly answer your questions:
*note: I'm just a regular user... a Mahalo employee will have the best answer to this question. But it's Sunday and there is nothing on TV so I'd like to take a stab at an answer.
:==:
"The images used on Mahalo come from flickr and google, but those images are almost always subject to copyright" How does Mahalo get away with this?
This issue has been raised before both internally at Mahalo and externally by members of flickr, etc.
Mahalo appears to be very carefully pulls images from a variety of sources for the image blocks you see on SERP's. These blocks are a collection of images that are pulled from publicly available based on a search criteria and not on the context of a page. This is important because (in my mind) it is what differentiates Mahalo's image blocks and makes them acceptable.
Any image author or distributor has the capability to block sites such as Mahalo from using images. Technical methods such as htaccess filtering or setting a flicker profile to disallow API display will easily block content from being distributed but still viewable by the public.
:===:
"When an image is used in answer to a question, used as the primary image for the guide page on the entire site, etc., how does that not violate copyright of the image?"
This is a tricky subject. The DCMA (digital copyright millennium act) has made changes that specifically outline text, image and video content online. However, the copyright laws that underlay the DCMA changes are still "fuzzy" to say the least.
I believe in Karma and the thought that one should "do on to others". Beyond laws, I don't want to distribute an image that the origional author doesn't want distributed. Simply telling me that the image should not be copied will stop me, but technical methods can again be used (htaccess, no leech scripts, referrer checking, etc).
:===:
So, you've entered the fuzzy world of image online copyright issues.
Your best bet?
Use the advanced Flickr search for Answer and SERP images:
http://www.flickr.com/search/advanced/
Click each of the 3 boxes on the bottom of the page. This will ensure that you only find images that have been marked "ok to distribute".
If in doubt, e-mail Lon or contact@mahalo.com. I know that Lon takes this stuff pretty seriously so I'm sure they wouldn't mind having a quick peak at an image that you weren't 100% sure about.
| Asker's Rating: |
• Thanks for being most helpful, Robb.
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September 13, 2009 11:13 PM
staff will have to give the official word on this... @lon is the best to ask, as he is the editorial director, but I do know that they encourage the use of CC licensed images when looking for images to add to managed pages, and they remove any copyright disputed images immediately. I have heard @lon say this myself. anything else he will have to comment on...
p.s. any time you have a question for staff, and don't know who to ask... send it to contact@mahalo.com - that goes to about 10-12 people, and the best person to handle that question should get back to you shortly. =)
Source(s):
personal experience...
Tags: images, mahalo
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September 13, 2009 11:18 PM
thank you! I didn't know about the contact going to several folks.
The reason I'm asking the question isn't so much because I'm questioning how Mahalo does things, but rather, if I'm managing a page and the images are automatically populated, am I responsible for going to the original link of each of those images to ensure they are not copyrighted before they are used on my page? That type of thing.
I don't want to get in trouble for a copyrighted image on a page I handle. I'm a writer, and regularly get my work stolen, so I don't want to be responsible for the same with a photographer who is an artist too!
Thanks for the answer!
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The reason I'm asking the question isn't so much because I'm questioning how Mahalo does things, but rather, if I'm managing a page and the images are automatically populated, am I responsible for going to the original link of each of those images to ensure they are not copyrighted before they are used on my page? That type of thing.
I don't want to get in trouble for a copyrighted image on a page I handle. I'm a writer, and regularly get my work stolen, so I don't want to be responsible for the same with a photographer who is an artist too!
Thanks for the answer!
September 14, 2009 10:22 AM
There won't be a problem with it since the photos are open for public anyway, unless the photos will be use for commercial advertising purposes that would be another question. most of them are even offer for free download. If the owner would'nt want the photos to be copied they should place some kind of security code or put in a vault or put some kind of copywriting warnings.
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September 14, 2009 04:24 PM
That's not true. Just because it's posted on the internet in public view doesn't mean it's acceptable to use it. Yes, the copyright notice can be posted on the site, but that won't block it from coming out into google images, since GI is a search engine that indexes the pics. That doesn't give us the right to use them without written permission from the copyright holder of the photograph or else the person uses the CC license option, share and share alike, create derivative works, etc.
I was wondering how Mahalo holds US responsible for copyrighted images when they auto-populate on the site. Is it our responsibility to click ever image link on our page and assure a CC license has been provided? I ask, because most every picture that's come up on my auto-populating images on Mahalo has been copyrighted.
I've removed those images and added links to ones I know aren't copyright... but some I've seen on other pages are copyrighted.
Please, please know that just because something is posted on the internet doesn't mean it's available for use without permission.
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I was wondering how Mahalo holds US responsible for copyrighted images when they auto-populate on the site. Is it our responsibility to click ever image link on our page and assure a CC license has been provided? I ask, because most every picture that's come up on my auto-populating images on Mahalo has been copyrighted.
I've removed those images and added links to ones I know aren't copyright... but some I've seen on other pages are copyrighted.
Please, please know that just because something is posted on the internet doesn't mean it's available for use without permission.
September 14, 2009 04:30 PM
Let me give you an example. the image you have posted here is from a website called Red Hot Copy. At the bottom of this website it says:
Copyright © 2008 All Rights Reserved
That means this photo is being used without permission. BUT, it's hotlinked, and that's a grey area of internet law.
So is Mahalo banking on the gray area of hotlinking as defense for fair use?
I just don't want to be held responsible for copyright infringement and am looking for clarification of the policy.
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Copyright © 2008 All Rights Reserved
That means this photo is being used without permission. BUT, it's hotlinked, and that's a grey area of internet law.
So is Mahalo banking on the gray area of hotlinking as defense for fair use?
I just don't want to be held responsible for copyright infringement and am looking for clarification of the policy.
September 14, 2009 05:28 PM
"That means this photo is being used without permission. BUT, it's hotlinked, and that's a grey area of internet law."
All copyright laws are grey. It's a real problem. However, these laws are grey because they are very general and wide reaching.
The content author of this photograph placed it online.
This photograph was not protected using hotlink protection.
This photograph does not contain a watermark
This photograph does not contain metadata saying that distribution or duplication is prohibited.
The website that this image is linked from does not contain a terms of service or other text saying something to the effect of "do not hotlink images".
It is the responsibility of the content author to limit the distribution of photographs.
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All copyright laws are grey. It's a real problem. However, these laws are grey because they are very general and wide reaching.
The content author of this photograph placed it online.
This photograph was not protected using hotlink protection.
This photograph does not contain a watermark
This photograph does not contain metadata saying that distribution or duplication is prohibited.
The website that this image is linked from does not contain a terms of service or other text saying something to the effect of "do not hotlink images".
It is the responsibility of the content author to limit the distribution of photographs.
September 15, 2009 03:54 AM
It is common for website to write copyrighted on their website even if they have not really register their logo or site as copyrighted. Your have to register your logo or pictures to make it officially to obtain copyright. other wish your just bluffing. Nothing personal just an exchange of views.
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The DMCA is clear on everything except hotlinking, which is what a lot if not most of these images are. I was thinking when I asked this question that the hotlinking defense was probably the answer I'd receive. I'm just not comfortable with that for my own pages that I manage.
I like your idea about searching the rights and all. It's just that so far, i've deleted every picture that was auto-populated on Mahalo, and had to replace them manually. That's why I was hoping for a little clarification on the policy and perhaps also to bring about awareness to others who might be using photos they shouldn't be.
Thanks for the in depth answer.
As a photographer, I say thank-you! Thank-you for being conscientious and mindful of other people and their property.
"The DMCA is clear on everything except hotlinking, which is what a lot if not most of these images are."
Yes, they are hotlinked images that are modified (scaled) and displayed as the result of a search term. The DMCA is purposefully unclear in this area. This creates a lot of confusion. What it is clear on is this:
If you create content (including a photograph) and DID NOT place that content online, you can petition websites, hosting companies and ISP's to remove the content. This is done with a simple letter. If no action is taken, the content creator can escalate the action and sue for damages.
If you create content and DID place that content online (even if it was protected) things turn all sorts of shades of grey. In these types of copyright infringement cases the defendant needs to prove that the content author did place the content online and maliciously allowed distribution of that content.
The photos that Mahalo pulls into the image blocks on the SERP's have been placed online and have in not been protected. As a result, copyright is not being broke and "fair use" is in play.
"I was hoping for a little clarification on the policy"
I reviewed the Mahalo TOS and I cannot find an official reference. What I do know is that this issue has been raised before. In my mind, Mahalo's practice of "hotlinking" images on the SERP content blocks is well done. It observes the flags that people can set in flickr, etc to tell automated tools (like the SERP image block) not to display the image. Only images that do not have this flag set or technical restrictions on other sites (blogs, google images, etc) are displayed.
How about using random images from flikr.com?
Is this allowed or does it violate Copy right laws?
What is the difference between "Public domain" or "publicly available" ?