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Video games I try to put related pages for any pages, if we have them or not, related to it: cheats, reviews, a main page, sequel or prequel title(s), and something related to the content of the game. (Example, for my MUA pages I have a few links related to Marvel comics.)
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That's the perfect number of pages to digest nicely in one serving, while still serving as a nice resource and suggestion guide.
The highest number I think I'd ever want to see is 10-12
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(12 only for pages that are REALLY interconnected with hundreds of others). If you get more than 10 or 12 it becomes an unreadable brick of text and downright oppressive. Stick to the brightest and best. If you can't narrow it down to 12, I think you really need to raise your standards a little bit.
I'll leave it to you, @Lon to know how Google prefers the number of "related pages". From a reader's point of view though, less is more.
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bunnyphuph...
So, related pages need to be QCd somehow for accuracy and proper representation of Mahalo, not an inaccurate search result. That should help determine if you should include it in your list.
Once it's found to be a legit Mahalo page, I think 20? I'd like to pick up some related product pages for exotic critters - like calcium dust. That page needs to be created and managed, and is an ideal "related" page for my critter "How Tos".
I've identified about 20, hence the number, that I'd like to bag when I'm able. I talked to Annek about this.. Not the number per se, the claiming of pages that will be beneficial to mine.
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For Example on the Barack Obama page, a link to the related term Michelle Obama is likely somewhere in the Guide Note or Fast Facts. So there is no need to put a link to her page in the "Related Mahalo Pages" section.
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I would say about 3 to 5 lines of related pages is good which would be about 10 to 15 related pages.
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How much is too much?
Cause in general say a music band. I can fit them in say 4-5 different genres but also popular entertainment movies etc etc because well a band can be everywhere.
where do you draw the line on choosing a pages categories?
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Even 10-15 can be too much... but sometimes is not enough.
It really depends on the subject of the page.
In any case... a big lump of links is almost useless to the visitor. That screen shot illustrates it beautifully, @lon!
Where more links are appropriate, something HAS to be done to separate them out... either through using code, or through adding other sections.
If your page is a very broad topic, like Sharks, you can break it out to different sections of related links, with some kind of title or even a paragraph to set it off and tell the visitor what you are doing.
I can see that that topic would have several groups of related pages... shark species - (self explanatory), science of sharks (zoos and zoological links), sharks in the media - links to pages on shark films, documentaries, tv shows, sharks in the news (or shark interactions with people) - shark attack buzzy pages, etc. etc.
But to put all of those links in one lump all mixed up is useless. Break them out into separate sections if you need them and they are relevant... and not all shark pages would need all those related pages... just link back to the main page and a few other relevant ones. Only broader pages really need to have more.
Using @lon's example... if this was a costume page, the manager could have linked to Halloween Costumes for Kids | Halloween Costumes for Adults etc... then from those pages the manager could get more specific.
I plan to bring out some information on interlinking within a single website (like mahalo.com) that tells the search engines which pages are the most important on a website, and in Google's case... makes sure you don't dilute your page rank... that's not for this discussion, but it is part of the reason I'm answering the way I am. =)
By doing it the way I am outlining, you enhance the user experience, and google and the other search engines will not see your page as a link farm. Instead, it will be seen as a valuable resource, and all of those GROUPS of related links, where they are closely related to each other, can actually help you be seen as more of an authority to the SE's and your visitor.
Source(s):
My 2 cents... and a bit of linking experience =)
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I think the problem you have is that all those Related references were/are valid. But instead of listing an entire tree they should have simply pointed to a top level. So maybe Halloween Costume would cover about half of those. And then on the Halloween Costume page should Witch Costume, Monster Costume, Prince Costume, and Other Costume. Then Other Costume broken down further on it's own page.
I think part of the problem is related pages is controlled by US. Maybe it should be broken down via an algorithm based on similar queries like other sites do.
Then instead of Related pages having a small list set in stone like a lot of people say here 6-10 items where we can add "Other pages you might enjoy."
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Maybe that section should have a character limit or something like that to prevent this type of thing from happening.
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Answered Question
M$1.90
October 21, 2009 08:55 PM
How many related pages is TOO many?
I'm getting a bit concerned with the Related Pages sections I'm seeing on some of the topic pages on Mahalo. Specifically, I'm seeing WAY too many related pages. Having relateds on your page is of course really good, and I'd encourage you to scan around and find a good group of them. But I think 15-20 would have to be the absolute maximum number I'd want to see on your page.
There are numerous reasons for this. First off, having dozens and dozens of relateds on a single page makes it look spammy, and unappealing to the eye. I'm very likely to scan a list of 5-10 related pages and look for something interesting to click on, but when I see a list of 50 pages, I think "oh, that's just SEO nonsense" and skip right past it. But perhaps MORE importantly for your purposes, having so many random links to other Mahalo pages all bunched together with no context actually diminishes the rank you're spreading to these other pages. If you pick 5 carefully selected related pages to link to, you will send a reasonable amount of your page's "Google Juice" to them. If you manage one or more of these related pages, in essence, you're doing part of your job...helping to attract more attention from search engines to your pages, and convincing search engines that your pages are a better authority on this topic than other sites. But if you have 50 pages on there, you're spreading yourself too thin and won't pass any tangible benefit to other Mahalo pages.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20671413@N02/4032414079/
If you're a page manager, please take some time to look at your pages and consider if you have an appropriate amount of related pages linked on there. Thanks!
There are numerous reasons for this. First off, having dozens and dozens of relateds on a single page makes it look spammy, and unappealing to the eye. I'm very likely to scan a list of 5-10 related pages and look for something interesting to click on, but when I see a list of 50 pages, I think "oh, that's just SEO nonsense" and skip right past it. But perhaps MORE importantly for your purposes, having so many random links to other Mahalo pages all bunched together with no context actually diminishes the rank you're spreading to these other pages. If you pick 5 carefully selected related pages to link to, you will send a reasonable amount of your page's "Google Juice" to them. If you manage one or more of these related pages, in essence, you're doing part of your job...helping to attract more attention from search engines to your pages, and convincing search engines that your pages are a better authority on this topic than other sites. But if you have 50 pages on there, you're spreading yourself too thin and won't pass any tangible benefit to other Mahalo pages.
If you're a page manager, please take some time to look at your pages and consider if you have an appropriate amount of related pages linked on there. Thanks!
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October 21, 2009 09:07 PM
I try to keep my related pages to what someone would be looking for after reading my pages. if its about coupons for a specific store, I put links to that store's Mahalo page, other stores like it, search terms for what they sell, etc. Maybe 5 to 10 max. Video games I try to put related pages for any pages, if we have them or not, related to it: cheats, reviews, a main page, sequel or prequel title(s), and something related to the content of the game. (Example, for my MUA pages I have a few links related to Marvel comics.)
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October 21, 2009 09:07 PM
I'm going to say that 6 is your magic number. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That's the perfect number of pages to digest nicely in one serving, while still serving as a nice resource and suggestion guide.
The highest number I think I'd ever want to see is 10-12
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(12 only for pages that are REALLY interconnected with hundreds of others). If you get more than 10 or 12 it becomes an unreadable brick of text and downright oppressive. Stick to the brightest and best. If you can't narrow it down to 12, I think you really need to raise your standards a little bit.
I'll leave it to you, @Lon to know how Google prefers the number of "related pages". From a reader's point of view though, less is more.
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bunnyphuph...
October 22, 2009 12:53 AM
I couldn't agree more!
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October 22, 2009 05:55 PM
Because we were talking about it Wednesday, I looked up How to Play Guitar. Page Manager has 39 related Mahalo pages. OMG! And I believe that's the top-viewed page??
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October 21, 2009 09:09 PM
In designing my last page, I searched Mahalo for related pages on my topic. 90% of them were up for grabs, and just glorified search responses, not actual existing Mahalo pages. Links outdated, whole bit, and bad for Mahalo IMO. So, related pages need to be QCd somehow for accuracy and proper representation of Mahalo, not an inaccurate search result. That should help determine if you should include it in your list.
Once it's found to be a legit Mahalo page, I think 20? I'd like to pick up some related product pages for exotic critters - like calcium dust. That page needs to be created and managed, and is an ideal "related" page for my critter "How Tos".
I've identified about 20, hence the number, that I'd like to bag when I'm able. I talked to Annek about this.. Not the number per se, the claiming of pages that will be beneficial to mine.
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October 22, 2009 05:56 PM
victoria...
sometimes there is no page yet for a particular term that would be appropriate... however, by adding a link to it, if it is clicked, the visitor still gets relevant information just by the nature of how mahalo works.
depending on the page, it sometimes pays to have the link even if there is no page.
for example... on a coupon page, if i have Sears Deals and there is no page for Sears, it would still pay to have the link. it makes sense that it would link back to the store, and that page will eventually get made and will have instant incoming links. in the meantime, anyone clicking the link still gets relevant results from the search aspect of mahalo
and in the case where there is a page but not a lot of content on it, those can be claimed any time by page managers, and then it would pay to already have the link in place. when they add content, it has a more immediate benefit, because those pages are already linked to and getting the attention from the search engines.
@lon has mentioned something related to this several times in the past. it is no different than inlinking in your text for pages that would make sense, even if we don't have them yet.
it also saves you a LOT of time that you would have spent going and checking over and over to see if the page is there yet or has content yet.
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sometimes there is no page yet for a particular term that would be appropriate... however, by adding a link to it, if it is clicked, the visitor still gets relevant information just by the nature of how mahalo works.
depending on the page, it sometimes pays to have the link even if there is no page.
for example... on a coupon page, if i have Sears Deals and there is no page for Sears, it would still pay to have the link. it makes sense that it would link back to the store, and that page will eventually get made and will have instant incoming links. in the meantime, anyone clicking the link still gets relevant results from the search aspect of mahalo
and in the case where there is a page but not a lot of content on it, those can be claimed any time by page managers, and then it would pay to already have the link in place. when they add content, it has a more immediate benefit, because those pages are already linked to and getting the attention from the search engines.
@lon has mentioned something related to this several times in the past. it is no different than inlinking in your text for pages that would make sense, even if we don't have them yet.
it also saves you a LOT of time that you would have spent going and checking over and over to see if the page is there yet or has content yet.
October 22, 2009 06:06 PM
Thanks, SW
Yes, I have calcium dust on me related links. Have to be on the How To Team to claim it, but hope to someday.
Thanks for the logic regarding including those links anyway, fully-fledged pages or not. Makes sense now. I have oodles, inlinked within my page itself, ready to go! Maybe I should add just a few to my related Mahalo pages as well. Really appreciate it!
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Yes, I have calcium dust on me related links. Have to be on the How To Team to claim it, but hope to someday.
Thanks for the logic regarding including those links anyway, fully-fledged pages or not. Makes sense now. I have oodles, inlinked within my page itself, ready to go! Maybe I should add just a few to my related Mahalo pages as well. Really appreciate it!
October 22, 2009 06:17 PM
no problem.
sometimes it is really the only way you can have enough related pages... and you don't necessarily want to be the one to create the page. =)
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sometimes it is really the only way you can have enough related pages... and you don't necessarily want to be the one to create the page. =)
October 21, 2009 09:38 PM
Another good way to Manage this section is use terms that you have not yet linked to in the Guide Note. For Example on the Barack Obama page, a link to the related term Michelle Obama is likely somewhere in the Guide Note or Fast Facts. So there is no need to put a link to her page in the "Related Mahalo Pages" section.
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October 21, 2009 10:44 PM
I agree some pages have way too many related pages linked and often time they are not even related. Some of the old pages that were made in the beginning have some unrelated pages partly because there were not that many pages to choose from at the time. Now there are so many pages so it is easy to find closely related pages. I would say about 3 to 5 lines of related pages is good which would be about 10 to 15 related pages.
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October 22, 2009 01:48 AM
I try to find related pages that fit my key words so the reader can broaden their knowledge about the entire subject and not just the managed page topic. Using the keywords gives spotlights to several member pages instead of just one or two. So, yes, I completely agree with Lon. I have to admit the screen shot was pretty amazing...that took some time to gather all those links!
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October 22, 2009 03:23 AM
I think a single number for every type of page is too limited, it just depends on the page, for example I have some that only have 4 related pages listed and for some I have about 10 -12 or maybe a few more. But if I have more, I try to be sure that they are all closely related. I agree Lon, it will look like spam to the search engines if there are too many links listed like that, we really don't want pages to have even the slightest hint of spam. I have just been looking at some of the Christmas pages, they all have tons of links, on one page there were too many to count (I stopped counting at 100). All these related pages are about Christmas, and all the ones I checked had content, but it still seems like way too many.
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October 22, 2009 03:47 AM
I would think these types of pages would be looked at as spam pages by the search engines. I could be wrong but I believe I read somewhere that the spiders crawl across the page looking at related content versus how many links there are with those same key words. ( or something to that affect)
*off to find the answer*
edited to add http://computer.howstuffworks.com/search-engine2.htm
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*off to find the answer*
edited to add http://computer.howstuffworks.com/search-engine2.htm
October 22, 2009 03:52 AM
What about the thought of too many categories? How much is too much?
Cause in general say a music band. I can fit them in say 4-5 different genres but also popular entertainment movies etc etc because well a band can be everywhere.
where do you draw the line on choosing a pages categories?
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October 22, 2009 06:25 PM
for categories... it is my belief that it should be in every category that is relevant. doesn't look too great on the page, but it sets up linking behind the scenes that is very important. that outweighs the look, in my opinion.
visitors aren't going to click those links quite as often, anyway, but it will be important for how google sees the whole site, and how important individual pages will be seen.
it also gives you instant incoming links for search engines to find and spider your page.
i would imagine that the category function is going to be utilized more in the future as mahalo grows. right now we don't even have categories for everything, and not enough content for many of the categories we do have. but as the site grows it will fill out more and i am sure they will become more visible in the site structure as they are utilized more.
the bigger we are the more we will need those categories. by adding your pages now, it will save you work down the line. you want those pages to be found when someone goes to a category that would be appropriate.
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visitors aren't going to click those links quite as often, anyway, but it will be important for how google sees the whole site, and how important individual pages will be seen.
it also gives you instant incoming links for search engines to find and spider your page.
i would imagine that the category function is going to be utilized more in the future as mahalo grows. right now we don't even have categories for everything, and not enough content for many of the categories we do have. but as the site grows it will fill out more and i am sure they will become more visible in the site structure as they are utilized more.
the bigger we are the more we will need those categories. by adding your pages now, it will save you work down the line. you want those pages to be found when someone goes to a category that would be appropriate.
October 22, 2009 06:30 PM
"put as many as you can" really doesn't help for SEO, either... in a case like @lon gave in his example, it would just dilute the power of the links on your page. depending on what the actual page is, (lon didn't say) that could really make a difference in how the SE's see the pages you are linking to.
that can get kinda involved, so i won't go into it here. but more for the sake of having more won't help. =)
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that can get kinda involved, so i won't go into it here. but more for the sake of having more won't help. =)
October 22, 2009 09:30 PM
your right, i didnt think of that... each keyword has so much density so you probably dont want to do that for good SEO... How many would you say is good for SEO smartweb?
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October 23, 2009 03:46 AM
it depends on the subject and on how broad your subject is.
if you have a lot, you can still do it... you just have to do it right so that they are not all together in one lump... and you need some context for them.
read my answer to this question and then if you need more information for a specific page, send me a direct question.
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if you have a lot, you can still do it... you just have to do it right so that they are not all together in one lump... and you need some context for them.
read my answer to this question and then if you need more information for a specific page, send me a direct question.
October 22, 2009 05:44 PM
I look at this a bit differently. Even 10-15 can be too much... but sometimes is not enough.
It really depends on the subject of the page.
In any case... a big lump of links is almost useless to the visitor. That screen shot illustrates it beautifully, @lon!
Where more links are appropriate, something HAS to be done to separate them out... either through using code, or through adding other sections.
If your page is a very broad topic, like Sharks, you can break it out to different sections of related links, with some kind of title or even a paragraph to set it off and tell the visitor what you are doing.
I can see that that topic would have several groups of related pages... shark species - (self explanatory), science of sharks (zoos and zoological links), sharks in the media - links to pages on shark films, documentaries, tv shows, sharks in the news (or shark interactions with people) - shark attack buzzy pages, etc. etc.
But to put all of those links in one lump all mixed up is useless. Break them out into separate sections if you need them and they are relevant... and not all shark pages would need all those related pages... just link back to the main page and a few other relevant ones. Only broader pages really need to have more.
Using @lon's example... if this was a costume page, the manager could have linked to Halloween Costumes for Kids | Halloween Costumes for Adults etc... then from those pages the manager could get more specific.
I plan to bring out some information on interlinking within a single website (like mahalo.com) that tells the search engines which pages are the most important on a website, and in Google's case... makes sure you don't dilute your page rank... that's not for this discussion, but it is part of the reason I'm answering the way I am. =)
By doing it the way I am outlining, you enhance the user experience, and google and the other search engines will not see your page as a link farm. Instead, it will be seen as a valuable resource, and all of those GROUPS of related links, where they are closely related to each other, can actually help you be seen as more of an authority to the SE's and your visitor.
Source(s):
My 2 cents... and a bit of linking experience =)
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October 22, 2009 07:24 PM
My 2 cents currently only worth 1 cent do to the economy. I think the problem you have is that all those Related references were/are valid. But instead of listing an entire tree they should have simply pointed to a top level. So maybe Halloween Costume would cover about half of those. And then on the Halloween Costume page should Witch Costume, Monster Costume, Prince Costume, and Other Costume. Then Other Costume broken down further on it's own page.
I think part of the problem is related pages is controlled by US. Maybe it should be broken down via an algorithm based on similar queries like other sites do.
Then instead of Related pages having a small list set in stone like a lot of people say here 6-10 items where we can add "Other pages you might enjoy."
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October 22, 2009 10:59 PM
I agree that that is way too many related pages. I try to keep my related pages section fairly small, however, there have been several instances where other people have gone in to my pages and added links to the Related Pages section. And of course I don't know that this has been done, until I happen to go to my page to make updates. So I think that in a lot of cases where there are excessive related pages, that this might be what is happening. This is one of my pet peeves with Mahalo, that people with high belt levels can go into other peoples pages and make changes without that person being notified. Maybe that section should have a character limit or something like that to prevent this type of thing from happening.
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