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M$1.45 October 31, 2009 11:57 PM

IRS' answer for my query regarding nonresident US workers! Attention to all Non-US Mahaloians!

I filled a form to IRS a while back about my question regarding W-BEN and tax for non-US Resident. Today, they emailed me the answer.

I posted it here because this is for every one of us who are not working in US and because the answer came from IRS, I will consider it comes from the most reliable source. I will save the email in case there is problem in the future.

My questions:
I am an Indonesian and have never been to US. I sometimes submit articles to US based internet company (like Associatedcontent and BrightHub ) where I gain little money (less than 100 USD) from upfront payments and google ad sense revenue. Usually they don t require me to fill W-8BEN form, but a new site I want to apply to require it. Should I fill the W-8BEN form? Also, I check that there is a treaty between US and Indonesian about tax exempt for Personal Service Income. Do I qualify for the tax exempt under the treaties, because I have never been in US and thus do not stay more than 119 in a year in US, and my income is not fixed? If so how do I tell the operator of the site I submit my articles to? Thank you for your help.

Their answer:
---------Quote----------------
Thank you for your inquiry dated October 16, 2009. We apologize for any delay in responding to your inquiry concerning if you should fill out the Form W8-BEN, (Certificate of Foreign Status of Beneficial Owner for United States Tax Withholding) and are you exempt under the tax treaty between the United States (U.S.) and Indonesia.

If a United States (U.S.) entity hires a nonresident contractor and if the contractor performs all of the services that he is paid for outside of the United States, this would be considered foreign source income or non U.S. source income. The Internal Revenue Service does not require the payer to report this type of income payment. Nor is this income subject to U.S. withholding tax. If this non U.S. source income is received by a nonresident alien contractor, there would be no filing requirement for them. Therefore the contractor is not mandated by law to supply the payer with the Form W8-BEN, but as a courtesy you may wish to supply the form to the payer. This would be a written document which informs the payer that you are not a U.S. person. This form is kept with the payer.
Because this payment is not considered U.S. source income and is not subject to U.S. tax, there would be no reason to take a treaty exemption. You may advise the payer of these rules.
Sourcing rules for independent personal services can be found in Publication 515, (Withholding of Tax on Nonresident Aliens and Foreign Entities).
Forms and Publications are available on the Internal Revenue Service web site www.irs.gov as well as tax treaty information.
We hope this information is helpful to you and thank you for using our service.
--------------quote--------------

In summary:

1. According to IRS, none of US resident person who is freelance contractor and working outside of US is NOT subjected to US tax. So we don't have to worry about paying tax to US.

2. W8-BEN is not mandatory under law, it is for the company internal record only.

Basicaly their answer is the same as what @michelledevon gave me, but coming from them, this makes it "official".
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Best Answer  Decided by Votes

 
November 02, 2009 11:19 AM
Thanks for that... I can see that while the form isn't required by the IRS Mahalo could be audited and may have to show that the payements to non us citizens are for people who are overseas...

The W8-BEN does I suppose provide them with a quick, easy and effective way of showing this. (And quick easy and effective things keep costs low and help all of us)

Now on the basis that the form is being used mainly for Mahalo's benefit, it would be really nice if there was an official how-to showing how to complete this form. I appreciate that in the past the argument was that Mahalo can't really give tax advice, but it the light of the above post no tax advice is required.... So Please Please Please can someone write one so that we won't have a repeat of the emotionally stressed posts we had last month.


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Helpful: lidyax

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November 02, 2009 11:34 AM
I'd give the tips to anyone who'd build that page. :)

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November 02, 2009 06:31 PM
> The W8-BEN does I suppose provide them with a quick, easy and effective way of showing this.

As far as I can tell, based on the answer above, the W8-BEN doesn't give them anything that a simple assertion "I am outside the US and not a US citizen, signed Blah" would not.

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November 03, 2009 11:59 AM - New Source
The page now exists..... Thankyouthankyouthankyou

http://www.mahalo.com/how-to-fill-out-a-w-8

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November 03, 2009 03:06 PM
But it does not really help. I look for it ad basically it is said what we already know. Fill the name, etc + consult with lawyer.

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November 03, 2009 03:09 PM
I thought the step 1, step 2, step 3 bit did make sense.

Maybe this is because I now know how to fill it in though.

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Other Answers (4)

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November 01, 2009 01:34 AM
Great! I'm glad you posted the official answer for everyone. Thanks for sharing it with everybody, since this will affect a lot of contractors, here on elsewhere.

(Pssst: I'm also glad I was right! LOL)

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Helpful: lilyloretta, psionandy, lidyax

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November 01, 2009 05:35 PM
Thanks for taking the trouble to check this with the IRS.

Great to have these clarifications.

I suggest you bring this to the attention of Mahalo as well, in case they miss this Q&A, by emailing contact@mahalo.com.

I guess Mahalo might want to see some documentation just to show that people are outside the US, though perhaps given they could check IP addresses, even that may not be necessary.

Nice work, and thanks for sharing the info with everyone.

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Helpful: psionandy, lidyax

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November 02, 2009 10:40 AM
Thankyou. This is something I hadn't thought of, but when I read your article and their answer, I realised that I should have. It seems to be good news all round, and a very fair ruling. One more good thing about this site!
Thanks!

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Helpful: psionandy, lidyax

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November 02, 2009 03:31 PM
Nice. Lidyax. Really nice
If I make the team. Imight give it a try
It's a very important and hot topic

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Helpful: lidyax

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November 03, 2009 03:06 PM
It seems that someone already made the page:
http://www.mahalo.com/how-to-fill-out-a-w-8

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