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M$10.05 October 20, 2009 01:09 AM

Why can't you say bad things about companies on sites like Linkedin? I mean, if a company provided bad or no service and still charged you.

Where can one go to say that someone did bad work and/or they ripped you off in a business to business case? I know about the Better Business Bureau, but they don't deal with cases of business to business. What if someone ripped you off, where can you expose them, report them, and make certain they pay you back. Sometimes you pay someone a lot of money and they provide you with nothing, bad work, and they scam you. Where can we go to get back at them? How do you get back at them without them suing you for saying bad things about them? Do you have to sue them to get your money back, is this the only way to go about getting back at them?

Are there news channels in New York City that expose these companies, or recommended ways to get back at them? What's the best way to get back at someone who has scammed you or screwed you? Or, is it best not to get back at people like this, and let the bad people get away with doing bad things?
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October 20, 2009 01:30 AM
It's because company names are usually trademarked.

Companies can at any time request that LinkedIn remove their name from the site. As a result, LinkedIn (and other sites) try very hard to maintain an impartial voice through moderation.

I don't necessarily agree that this is right either. Folks should be able to say what they want, when they want, how they want. Freedom of speech.

On the other hand, companies have reputations to maintain. There are a number of places without this type of moderation where a person can speak disparagingly about them.

Regarding what to do when you get ripped off...

Depending on the amount of money, I would likely let my lawyer handle this from start to finish. Lawyers know stuff. They're horrible and evil, but often necessarily and when they are, it's best to get them involved early.

If the amount of money is within the limit of small claims court in your part of the world, then I would first talk to the owner of the company. Try to make a face-to-face appointment with him or her. Explain what happened and why you think it's wrong clearly and calmly. If at any point an argument starts, get up, walk out. This is your best chance at getting 100% of the money.

Next, I'd file a small claims court action. Remember that when you file, you must completely prove why the company owes you money.

Short of that, anything else can be considered slander. You could post under aliases on the Internet, take over their SE positions, Tweet out evil, etc, etc. However, this is almost always futile. As a business, it's better to let the law work it's magic. You may waste more time and money doing these sorts of things than it's worth.

Lawyers are handy with things like these. Even a short 1 hour consult can go a long way and is tax deductible!
Asker's Rating:
• Excellent answer @Robbrown and definitely listen to your advice. There were a few good answers, yet this one seemed to answer the question best!


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October 20, 2009 01:45 AM
Good answer here, and when it's not a small claim, then there are lawyers you've got to get involved. Some people will speak their mind and don't mind, but then others don't because they realize they are either 1. embarrassed that they got scammed or 2. scared of what the scammer might do.

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October 20, 2009 01:55 AM
Number 1 and 2 are good reasons to hire a lawyer.

You don't have to be embarrassed that you got scammed. Lawyers are there to deal with problems and they've all seen a lot of stupid things.

You also don't have to be scared of what the scammer might do. A good lawyer will above all else, protect you and your company.

Still, a lawyer and the whole legal process is usually a big waste of time, money, stress and resources. Personally, I "put them on my list" and never work with them again and if questioned, tell people exactly why I don't work with them.

I've been seriously burned once. I send the owner a really nice Christmas card every single year. I send it to his house and address it from a different person every year so that he doesn't just throw it out. It says something to the effect of, "I'm still doing great in spite of you. XXXX you." That alone makes me feel better for some odd reason. Petty, yes. Professional, no. Does it make me feel better about it? You bet :)

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October 20, 2009 02:05 AM
I found that clever, you send them a "really nice Christmas" card every year. Not a bad idea, but a little odd or creepy. I guess that's not a bad idea to make you feel better, but what would really make you feel better is if you can recover from being burned by them.

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October 20, 2009 03:25 AM
Yes... it is slightly creepy. You're not the first person to note that ;) I conceded that it is odd, but if I didn't do it, it would make me feel like he won. It serves as a source of motivation and I have a little chuckle when I drop it in the mail. In all likelihood, he drops it in the garbage as quickly as it is opened. However, it serves as a reminder to both of us that it happened and that it won't again.

I have recovered. I don't give into spite very often. I figure iff I don't once in a while, then it will bubble up and emerge when I don't want it too.

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October 20, 2009 05:00 PM
Company names might be trademarked, but as far as I know that doesn't prevent in any way people mentioning the names of companies when reporting their behavior.

Sure you may get sued for libel if you can't back up what you say, and maybe sites are worried about that. But that has nothing to do with trademarks.

The underlying problem would seem to more that...

a) Sites don't have anyway of knowing if what you say is true

b) They are worried that they share the risk with you, and it is not a matter for you alone whether you telling the truth or spreading malicious lies

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October 20, 2009 01:18 AM
I'm not sure why Linkedin would have a policy like that, but I would recommend posting a review on yelp.com if you haven't already. That site is well used, and I often look at it before doing business with someone.

Also, if the Better Business Bureau hasn't been able to work with you, consider calling the police. If the business scammed you, it is fraud and/or larceny. It should at least get their attention enough to get them to return the money.

I understand that even if you get your money back, you still want to warn others, which is kind of you. You may want to take a look at www.ripoffreport.com. I haven't used them before but they look like the sort of thing you might want to check out. There is also www.sickofbeingscrewed.com

Good luck!

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October 20, 2009 01:42 AM
One problem, I suspect, is that even if you are perfectly right, and the company in question did in fact behave unethically or even illegally, if you say bad things about them without proof that will stand in court, they can sue you for libel, and might win.

Since the website you mention does not have any such proof, they have a legitimate concern that they could be successfully sued themselves for hosting your remarks. Websites that specialize in this type of post have less to lose, and probably are more knowledgeable about how to protect themselves from potential lawsuits resulting from your posts.

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October 20, 2009 01:44 AM
This is generally not the sort of situation in which you want to turn to a private organization to complain. Private organizations are under no obligation to publicly post any complaint you have regarding this business in question, and often companies who regularly commit fraudulent charges will often ignore complaints.

If you paid the company with a credit card, I would suggest starting a chargeback. If they haven't provided the service in question and you have evidence that they haven't, you should be able to get your money back relatively easily.

You can also contact your state's attorney general here : http://www.oag.state.ny.us/resource_center/complaints/complaints.html . Doing so may be enough pressure to push the company into providing a refund. If the company you have a complaint about is in another state, filing the complaint with that state's AG may be a good idea.

The police are unlikely to do anything for you, as civil courts can provide you with the relief you may need. If the amount is relatively small, you may be able to file in small claims court and avoid hefty legal fees.

Contacting your local news station may work, but they generally stick to more consumer oriented stories.

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October 20, 2009 04:08 AM
I am sorry that you feel that you are being limited in your speech. Here is the quick and down & dirty of what you can and cannot do:

1. You CAN complain. You can complain to:
a. The company itself. You can threaten them with Better Business Bureau sanctions. If the company is licensed through an entity, you can threaten to contact the licensing board and file a grievance with them. This is very effective with professional organizations, and also with builders and contractors.
You can also send them an attorney created demand letter requesting specific redress (such as return of funds, repair of shoddy work, or replacement of a defective item). If needed, you can take the company to court based on breach of contract if it is a service based contract, or a breach of a warranty if it is a goods based agreement. If the loss is small (under $5,000 for New York State), you can go to small claims yourself--if more, then you may want to retain an attorney.
b. The state licensing agency. If an appraiser in North Carolina provided unprofessional service, you can contact the North Carolina Appraisal Board. In your case, since I am not sure what type of a grievance occurred, I cannot give more specific advice.
c. The New York Dept of State. If the business is incorporated, you can contact the licensing board and have the state start an investigation. You can also contact the local/municipality consumer protection agencies that can also investigate and possibly sanction the business.
d. Better Business Bureau. Yes, the BBB can and does have clout--they can take away their rating and more and more individuals review the ratings of the the companies they do business with.
e. Yelp!.com and other sites of similar caliber. However, here you must be careful or else you tread on dangerous grounds where you can be accused of defamation and the company may even win against you. I will explain this in my "Cannot" section in greater detail.

2. What you CANNOT (or should not) do is this:
a. Start a webpage devoted to your problem with this company. The problem here is defamation. To prove defamation, the company would have to show that (1) defamatory statements (2) of or about them (3) where communicated to third parties that (4) caused them damages. If you are stating matters of fact that have not yet been litigated, you run on being sued for damages for your behavior. In addition if other third parties place defamatory statements against the business on your site, you become responsible for them also--which means you can be sued as a third party defendant.
b. Put negative reviews that are hateful, opinionated, and unsubstantiated on Yelp!.com or other sites. Even if it is not defamation, the company may sue you for "Tortuous Interference With a Business Interest" and again, collect damages for their injury. If you do have something negative to say, keep it to factual that is easily proven, and that you were "unsatisfied" with their service--otherwise you may be sued and an injunction as well as punitive damages levied against you.

I hope I was able to assist you.

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October 20, 2009 04:23 AM
This doesn't link to US, but once a woman got bad service in a hospital. She posted in in her email and people forward her email. Then she got jailed for slander. It was a pretty big case but I don;t know the follow up for her case.
Source(s):
http://megapolitan.kompas.com/read/xml/2009/06/03/1112056/inilah.curhat.yan... (sorry it's in Indonesian)


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October 20, 2009 08:55 AM
I'd like to add to what Rob said because he gave good information, but he left out that you can contact the Attorney General's office in your state to file a complaint against the business if you feel they do this to lots of people, they are fraudulent, etc. That's part of what the AG offices do, especially if it's unethical or illegal business practices on a scale larger than just one disgruntled customer. The BBB is useless - I wouldn't even bother with them.

Rob, just an aside, freedom of speech is often misquoted, much like it is here. I'm all for people being able to say what they want, when they want, etc, up to a point. You come into my house and use the 'f' word in front of my son and you'll be asked to leave. Freedom of speech doesn't mean people can say anything they want on a website or anything and not be held responsible.

Freedom of speech means the government will not make a law that prohibits the freedom of speech. That doesn't mean you can't be civilly sued for libeling on a website that is privately (not governmently) owned.

You have the right to speak your mind, but you might have to pay a price in to the person you're damaging in order to do so. You have to weigh your options to decide if you want to pay that price or not. When you come into someone else's home (linkedin, in this case) they have decided they don't want to pay that price. So just like me asking you not to use the F word in my home, LinkedIn has their own rules for their 'home' on the internet.

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October 20, 2009 08:59 AM
i know u want to get back to them, but i think the better question would be why and is it worth your time and aggravation?

I would have to say if they have not taken more then 400 dollars then u then dont bother... But if it is a extreme amount of money then certainly proceed. I know personally I have reported a company to the state and local police with no help on either side of things. So i dont recomend this at all. I would suggest first asking the company nicely to do something for there wrong doings. If that does not work then threaten them with everything you got...

1 tip I have for you would be if the company thinks they are being recorded in any way they could lighten there atitude and drop there guard and refund your money. Consider using a cell phone with record feature, and also put them on speaker as you talk to them, making them think you are in a room full of people or some type of police call or something to scare them.

I also would suggest tell them in worst case scenerio you are going to expose there wrong doings and you have the capability to put the word out on them to over 100 different social media sites... I will personally help you with this if needed, just let me know the company and what to write and i will post for you through one of my tools I use called ping.fm =)

I hope this helps you out some... If you need more helps just let me know!!!

Thanks Mike ! ! !

Tags: report, law

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October 20, 2009 12:54 PM
I recommend ripoffreport, a bbb report, and yahoo directory reviews instead of attacking them on a business networking site. There are some sites specifically geared toward professional information. Depending on your state of residence, you may find a little remedy without lawsuit by contacting consumer reporters in your area from the newspaper or television stations.

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October 20, 2009 12:56 PM
you cant because like with the press thew company can sue you for slander and other trhing along those lines.

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October 20, 2009 06:46 PM
Assuming we are talking about North America here, our gouvernments are very capitalism orientated and make laws such as the laws between slander and free speech. If your actions directly hurt a company financially whether you had a bad experience or not, you are eligible to be sued. Free Speech is allowed if your comments do not directly hurt the company on a large scale (ex: talking to a couple of people, and not broadcasting it to a large audience).

Huge companies have great lawyers which can pretty much make a case out of any problem, and there are little laws that can prevent them from doing this because they are using THEIR free speech.

It is very sad how our gouvernments focus soo much on huge organizations instead of the average person, seeing as we are the people they are "supposed" to represent. The only action a person can take is a large group of people could conform and over throw the gouvernment which by the way is yet to be done.

Thanks!

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October 20, 2009 09:36 PM
beacuse we are in same with different place .

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