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2 years, 3 months ago

DISCUSS: Joseph Andrew Stack Manifesto Transcript

Discuss the Joseph Andrew Stack manifesto below.

If you’re reading this, you’re no doubt asking yourself, “Why did this have to happen?” The simple truth is that it is complicated and has been coming for a long time. The writing process, started many months ago, was intended to be therapy in the face of the looming realization that there isn’t enough therapy in the world that can fix what is really broken. Needless to say, this rant could fill volumes with example after example if I would let it. I find the process of writing it frustrating, tedious, and probably pointless… especially given my gross inability to gracefully articulate my thoughts in light of the storm raging in my head. Exactly what is therapeutic about that I’m not sure, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

We are all taught as children that without laws there would be no society, only anarchy. Sadly, starting at early ages we in this country have been brainwashed to believe that, in return for our dedication and service, our government stands for justice for all. We are further brainwashed to believe that there is freedom in this place, and that we should be ready to lay our lives down for the noble principals represented by its founding fathers. Remember? One of these was “no taxation without representation”. I have spent the total years of my adulthood unlearning that crap from only a few years of my childhood. These days anyone who really stands up for that principal is promptly labeled a “crackpot”, traitor and worse.

While very few working people would say they haven’t had their fair share of taxes (as can I), in my lifetime I can say with a great degree of certainty that there has never been a politician cast a vote on any matter with the likes of me or my interests in mind. Nor, for that matter, are they the least bit interested in me or anything I have to say.

Why is it that a handful of thugs and plunderers can commit unthinkable atrocities (and in the case of the GM executives, for scores of years) and when it’s time for their gravy train to crash under the weight of their gluttony and overwhelming stupidity, the force of the full federal government has no difficulty coming to their aid within days if not hours? Yet at the same time, the joke we call the American medical system, including the drug and insurance companies, are murdering tens of thousands of people a year and stealing from the corpses and victims they cripple, and this country’s leaders don’t see this as important as bailing out a few of their vile, rich cronies. Yet, the political “representatives” (thieves, liars, and self-serving scumbags is far more accurate) have endless time to sit around for year after year and debate the state of the “terrible health care problem”. It’s clear they see no crisis as long as the dead people don’t get in the way of their corporate profits rolling in.

And justice? You’ve got to be kidding!

How can any rational individual explain that white elephant conundrum in the middle of our tax system and, indeed, our entire legal system? Here we have a system that is, by far, too complicated for the brightest of the master scholars to understand. Yet, it mercilessly “holds accountable” its victims, claiming that they’re responsible for fully complying with laws not even the experts understand. The law “requires” a signature on the bottom of a tax filing; yet no one can say truthfully that they understand what they are signing; if that’s not “duress” than what is. If this is not the measure of a totalitarian regime, nothing is.

How did I get here?

My introduction to the real American nightmare starts back in the early ‘80s. Unfortunately after more than 16 years of school, somewhere along the line I picked up the absurd, pompous notion that I could read and understand plain English. Some friends introduced me to a group of people who were having ‘tax code’ readings and discussions. In particular, zeroed in on a section relating to the wonderful “exemptions” that make institutions like the vulgar, corrupt Catholic Church so incredibly wealthy. We carefully studied the law (with the help of some of the “best”, high-paid, experienced tax lawyers in the business), and then began to do exactly what the “big boys” were doing (except that we weren’t steeling from our congregation or lying to the government about our massive profits in the name of God). We took a great deal of care to make it all visible, following all of the rules, exactly the way the law said it was to be done.

The intent of this exercise and our efforts was to bring about a much-needed re-evaluation of the laws that allow the monsters of organized religion to make such a mockery of people who earn an honest living. However, this is where I learned that there are two “interpretations” for every law; one for the very rich, and one for the rest of us… Oh, and the monsters are the very ones making and enforcing the laws; the inquisition is still alive and well today in this country.

That little lesson in patriotism cost me $40,000+, 10 years of my life, and set my retirement plans back to 0. It made me realize for the first time that I live in a country with an ideology that is based on a total and complete lie. It also made me realize, not only how naive I had been, but also the incredible stupidity of the American public; that they buy, hook, line, and sinker, the crap about their “freedom”… and that they continue to do so with eyes closed in the face of overwhelming evidence and all that keeps happening in front of them.

Before even having to make a shaky recovery from the sting of the first lesson on what justice really means in this country (around 1984 after making my way through engineering school and still another five years of “paying my dues”), I felt I finally had to take a chance of launching my dream of becoming an independent engineer.

On the subjects of engineers and dreams of independence, I should digress somewhat to say that I’m sure that I inherited the fascination for creative problem solving from my father. I realized this at a very young age.

The significance of independence, however, came much later during my early years of college; at the age of 18 or 19 when I was living on my own as student in an apartment in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. My neighbor was an elderly retired woman (80+ seemed ancient to me at that age) who was the widowed wife of a retired steel worker. Her husband had worked all his life in the steel mills of central Pennsylvania with promises from big business and the union that, for his 30 years of service, he would have a pension and medical care to look forward to in his retirement. Instead he was one of the thousands who got nothing because the incompetent mill management and corrupt union (not to mention the government) raided their pension funds and stole their retirement. All she had was social security to live on.

In retrospect, the situation was laughable because here I was living on peanut butter and bread (or Ritz crackers when I could afford to splurge) for months at a time. When I got to know this poor figure and heard her story I felt worse for her plight than for my own (I, after all, I thought I had everything to in front of me). I was genuinely appalled at one point, as we exchanged stories and commiserated with each other over our situations, when she in her grandmotherly fashion tried to convince me that I would be “healthier” eating cat food (like her) rather than trying to get all my substance from peanut butter and bread. I couldn’t quite go there, but the impression was made. I decided that I didn’t trust big business to take care of me, and that I would take responsibility for my own future and myself.

Return to the early ‘80s, and here I was off to a terrifying start as a ‘wet-behind-the-ears’ contract software engineer... and two years later, thanks to the fine backroom, midnight effort by the sleazy executives of Arthur Andersen (the very same folks who later brought us Enron and other such calamities) and an equally sleazy New York Senator (Patrick Moynihan), we saw the passage of 1986 tax reform act with its section 1706.

For you who are unfamiliar, here is the core text of the IRS Section 1706, defining the treatment of workers (such as contract engineers) for tax purposes. Visit this link for a conference committee report (http://www.synergistech.com/1706.shtml#ConferenceCommitteeReport) regarding the intended interpretation of Section 1706 and the relevant parts of Section 530, as amended. For information on how these laws affect technical services workers and their clients, read our discussion here (http://www.synergistech.com/ic-taxlaw.shtml).

SEC. 1706. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN TECHNICAL PERSONNEL.

(a) IN GENERAL - Section 530 of the Revenue Act of 1978 is amended by adding at the end thereof the following new subsection:

(d) EXCEPTION. - This section shall not apply in the case of an individual who pursuant to an arrangement between the taxpayer and another person, provides services for such other person as an engineer, designer, drafter, computer programmer, systems analyst, or other similarly skilled worker engaged in a similar line of work.

(b) EFFECTIVE DATE. - The amendment made by this section shall apply to remuneration paid and services rendered after December 31, 1986.

Note:

· "another person" is the client in the traditional job-shop relationship.

· "taxpayer" is the recruiter, broker, agency, or job shop.

· "individual", "employee", or "worker" is you.

Admittedly, you need to read the treatment to understand what it is saying but it’s not very complicated. The bottom line is that they may as well have put my name right in the text of section (d). Moreover, they could only have been more blunt if they would have came out and directly declared me a criminal and non-citizen slave. Twenty years later, I still can’t believe my eyes.

During 1987, I spent close to $5000 of my ‘pocket change’, and at least 1000 hours of my time writing, printing, and mailing to any senator, congressman, governor, or slug that might listen; none did, and they universally treated me as if I was wasting their time. I spent countless hours on the L.A. freeways driving to meetings and any and all of the disorganized professional groups who were attempting to mount a campaign against this atrocity. This, only to discover that our efforts were being easily derailed by a few moles from the brokers who were just beginning to enjoy the windfall from the new declaration of their “freedom”. Oh, and don’t forget, for all of the time I was spending on this, I was loosing income that I couldn’t bill clients.

After months of struggling it had clearly gotten to be a futile exercise. The best we could get for all of our trouble is a pronouncement from an IRS mouthpiece that they weren’t going to enforce that provision (read harass engineers and scientists). This immediately proved to be a lie, and the mere existence of the regulation began to have its impact on my bottom line; this, of course, was the intended effect.

Again, rewind my retirement plans back to 0 and shift them into idle. If I had any sense, I clearly should have left abandoned engineering and never looked back.

Instead I got busy working 100-hour workweeks. Then came the L.A. depression of the early 1990s. Our leaders decided that they didn’t need the all of those extra Air Force bases they had in Southern California, so they were closed; just like that. The result was economic devastation in the region that rivaled the widely publicized Texas S&L fiasco. However, because the government caused it, no one gave a s**t about all of the young families who lost their homes or street after street of boarded up houses abandoned to the wealthy loan companies who received government funds to “shore up” their windfall. Again, I lost my retirement.

Years later, after weathering a divorce and the constant struggle trying to build some momentum with my business, I find myself once again beginning to finally pick up some speed. Then came the .COM bust and the 911 nightmare. Our leaders decided that all aircraft were grounded for what seemed like an eternity; and long after that, ‘special’ facilities like San Francisco were on security alert for months. This made access to my customers prohibitively expensive. Ironically, after what they had done the Government came to the aid of the airlines with billions of our tax dollars … as usual they left me to rot and die while they bailed out their rich, incompetent cronies WITH MY MONEY! After these events, there went my business but not quite yet all of my retirement and savings.

By this time, I’m thinking that it might be good for a change. Bye to California, I’ll try Austin for a while. So I moved, only to find out that this is a place with a highly inflated sense of self-importance and where damn little real engineering work is done. I’ve never experienced such a hard time finding work. The rates are 1/3 of what I was earning before the crash, because pay rates here are fixed by the three or four large companies in the area who are in collusion to drive down prices and wages… and this happens because the justice department is all on the take and doesn’t give a f**k about serving anyone or anything but themselves and their rich buddies.

To survive, I was forced to cannibalize my savings and retirement, the last of which was a small IRA. This came in a year with mammoth expenses and not a single dollar of income. I filed no return that year thinking that because I didn’t have any income there was no need. The sleazy government decided that they disagreed. But they didn’t notify me in time for me to launch a legal objection so when I attempted to get a protest filed with the court I was told I was no longer entitled to due process because the time to file ran out. Bend over for another $10,000 helping of justice.

So now we come to the present. After my experience with the CPA world, following the business crash I swore that I’d never enter another accountant’s office again. But here I am with a new marriage and a boatload of undocumented income, not to mention an expensive new business asset, a piano, which I had no idea how to handle. After considerable thought I decided that it would be irresponsible NOT to get professional help; a very big mistake.

When we received the forms back I was very optimistic that they were in order. I had taken all of the years information to Bill Ross, and he came back with results very similar to what I was expecting. Except that he had neglected to include the contents of Sheryl’s unreported income; $12,700 worth of it. To make matters worse, Ross knew all along this was missing and I didn’t have a clue until he pointed it out in the middle of the audit. By that time it had become brutally evident that he was representing himself and not me.

This left me stuck in the middle of this disaster trying to defend transactions that have no relationship to anything tax-related (at least the tax-related transactions were poorly documented). Things I never knew anything about and things my wife had no clue would ever matter to anyone. The end result is… well, just look around.

I remember reading about the stock market crash before the “great” depression and how there were wealthy bankers and businessmen jumping out of windows when they realized they screwed up and lost everything. Isn’t it ironic how far we’ve come in 60 years in this country that they now know how to fix that little economic problem; they just steal from the middle class (who doesn’t have any say in it, elections are a joke) to cover their a***s and it’s “business-as-usual”. Now when the wealthy f**k up, the poor get to die for the mistakes… isn’t that a clever, tidy solution.

As government agencies go, the FAA is often justifiably referred to as a tombstone agency, though they are hardly alone. The recent presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies in their eight years certainly reinforced for all of us that this criticism rings equally true for all of the government. Nothing changes unless there is a body count (unless it is in the interest of the wealthy sows at the government trough). In a government full of hypocrites from top to bottom, life is as cheap as their lies and their self-serving laws.

I know I’m hardly the first one to decide I have had all I can stand. It has always been a myth that people have stopped dying for their freedom in this country, and it isn’t limited to the blacks, and poor immigrants. I know there have been countless before me and there are sure to be as many after. But I also know that by not adding my body to the count, I insure nothing will change. I choose to not keep looking over my shoulder at “big brother” while he strips my carcass, I choose not to ignore what is going on all around me, I choose not to pretend that business as usual won’t continue; I have just had enough.

I can only hope that the numbers quickly get too big to be white washed and ignored that the American zombies wake up and revolt; it will take nothing less. I would only hope that by striking a nerve that stimulates the inevitable double standard, knee-jerk government reaction that results in more stupid draconian restrictions people wake up and begin to see the pompous political thugs and their mindless minions for what they are. Sadly, though I spent my entire life trying to believe it wasn’t so, but violence not only is the answer, it is the only answer. The cruel joke is that the really big chunks of s**t at the top have known this all along and have been laughing, at and using this awareness against, fools like me all along.

I saw it written once that the definition of insanity is repeating the same process over and over and expecting the outcome to suddenly be different. I am finally ready to stop this insanity. Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let’s try something different; take my pound of flesh and sleep well.

The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed.

Joe Stack (1956-2010)
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baka13's Avatar
baka13 | 2 years, 3 months ago
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I have to be honest. I'm not normally given to displays of emotion. But I was weeping by the time I finished with this. Because Joe Stack is me. Not just me. But people like me. People who every day wake up and feel that the world has played a very, very, very bad, very ill-tasting joke on them. These are the very same people who have built every single country in this history of Planet Earth. The very same people who are beaten down, day after day, engaged in unfair trade with their employers. The very people who drown in debt they have no way of repaying, working day after day after day, 8 hours, 12 hours, 16 hours, 24 hours, sometimes even 36 hours at a time.

This is not a new concept, either, this merciless destruction of the tired, the poor, the huddled ma***s, yearning to breathe free, but only managing to breathe the carcinogens of factory smoke. In ancient Sparta, the nobility declared a merciless annual war against the Helots, their own peasantry, to bludgeon them into submission so abject that they would never even dare to dream that things might ever be different. In the middle ages, the serf was little more than a slave. Now, the serf...worker, that is, is a wage-slave, still bound to their jobs, bound to their tiny paychecks, wishing that somehow things could be different, yet knowing that they will not be. Ever.

"Why is it that a handful of thugs and plunderers can commit unthinkable atrocities (and in the case of the GM executives, for scores of years) and when it’s time for their gravy train to crash under the weight of their gluttony and overwhelming stupidity, the force of the full federal government has no difficulty coming to their aid within days if not hours? Yet at the same time, the joke we call the American medical system, including the drug and insurance companies, are murdering tens of thousands of people a year and stealing from the corpses and victims they cripple, and this country’s leaders don’t see this as important as bailing out a few of their vile, rich cronies. Yet, the political “representatives” (thieves, liars, and self-serving scumbags is far more accurate) have endless time to sit around for year after year and debate the state of the “terrible health care problem”. It’s clear they see no crisis as long as the dead people don’t get in the way of their corporate profits rolling in."

Yes. Why is it that our lives are worth so little to the people we elect that they'll gleefully watch us burn while they light their cigars on our pyres? Why is it that our CEO's and our dear, dear politicians wish so desperately to see us perish? What answer can anyone give that will satisfy the demands of basic human DECENCY?! Have they forgotten how to be human? Have they somehow evolved into Morlocks? It would seem so, yet if they were Morlocks, wouldn't that make us the Eloi, living our charmed lives above the surface, just like the characters from H.G. Wells' "The Time Machine"? No. Because we DON'T live charmed lives. We're fed garbage that is designed to kill us. Everyone knows it. But who has a will strong enough to resist? Often, we participate in this nightmare because we feel we have no choice. This is the only reality we know now. And if this is the logical conclusion of history, then I pray for a comet to come and end it all. (nothing personal to anyone there. I don't wish death on anyone, but if this continual war against one's own people is the way it will be forever, then our lives mean nothing anyway.)

"And justice? You’ve got to be kidding!

How can any rational individual explain that white elephant conundrum in the middle of our tax system and, indeed, our entire legal system? Here we have a system that is, by far, too complicated for the brightest of the master scholars to understand. Yet, it mercilessly “holds accountable” its victims, claiming that they’re responsible for fully complying with laws not even the experts understand. The law “requires” a signature on the bottom of a tax filing; yet no one can say truthfully that they understand what they are signing; if that’s not “duress” than what is. If this is not the measure of a totalitarian regime, nothing is."

Just in case anyone holds on to the delusion that this is a land of freedom and justice and conscience and liberty, just like the propaganda says, I ask where is paradise for people like "The West Memphis Three"? Where is justice for them? They're sitting on Death Row right now. Because they were metal-heads. Where is paradise for them? Where is paradise for Leonard Peltier, who was illegally extradited from Canada, thrown into prison as a political prisoner, and denied the chance of ever again being a free man? Where was paradise for Sacco and Vanzetti, who were executed just because they were Anarchists? Where is the justice for these people? Where is the justice for the people who spent years in the pen for selling drugs to feed their children, because our wonderful system couldn't provide them the basic necessities they needed to feed, shelter, clothe, educate, and nurture their families? What answer can the powers-that-be give for this? Perhaps they've grown so arrogant, they feel they don't NEED to answer. Maybe they rest upon the law as if the law is its own justification. WRONG!!!!!

"My introduction to the real American nightmare starts back in the early ‘80s. Unfortunately after more than 16 years of school, somewhere along the line I picked up the absurd, pompous notion that I could read and understand plain English. Some friends introduced me to a group of people who were having ‘tax code’ readings and discussions. In particular, zeroed in on a section relating to the wonderful “exemptions” that make institutions like the vulgar, corrupt Catholic Church so incredibly wealthy. We carefully studied the law (with the help of some of the “best”, high-paid, experienced tax lawyers in the business), and then began to do exactly what the “big boys” were doing (except that we weren’t steeling from our congregation or lying to the government about our massive profits in the name of God). We took a great deal of care to make it all visible, following all of the rules, exactly the way the law said it was to be done.

The intent of this exercise and our efforts was to bring about a much-needed re-evaluation of the laws that allow the monsters of organized religion to make such a mockery of people who earn an honest living. However, this is where I learned that there are two “interpretations” for every law; one for the very rich, and one for the rest of us… Oh, and the monsters are the very ones making and enforcing the laws; the inquisition is still alive and well today in this country."

And Churches do not have to contribute anything material to society. This is a rule which has endured for centuries. Why? When the Roman Catholic Church alone has enough money to feed the entire world for months, why are they not following the freaking MESSAGE that Jesus Christ, the founder of their entire religion, put forth. Feeding the many? Yeah, that was a Jesus thing (whether or not one believes the stories is immaterial. The whole point is in the message, a message which many if not all religions seems to have lost track of over the centuries). Funny how it was a Jesus thing. But not a Pope thing. But I'm not singling out the Popes here. Because every single leader of every single religion in the world has failed in the same way, failed to see to the needs of their flocks. But people continue to flock to them. Because, much like convicts, we're institutionalized to believe that this is the only way.

And this double standard, these different sets of rules for the rich and the poor, to that I say, how dare they? But louder than that, I scream, "How dare WE?!!!" For you see, we get exactly what we deserve. Because WE let this happen. I did. You did. We all did. Our parents did. Our grandparents did. Their parents did, and so on into the dim mists of antiquity. All because we didn't have the courage to stand up for ourselves. There are 300 million Americans, give or take. How many of those Americans are there in all three branches of government? I'm willing to bet that the answer to that does not fall in the "millions" category. How is it that thousands are able to control MILLIONS?! Because we let them. Every 4 years.

Now I know what you're saying. "What do you want ME to do? I'm just one person. I can't make a difference. What's the point in sacrificing my T-Bone steaks, and my playstations, and my fancy car, and my "good" job, for the uncertainty of a Revolution which probably will be squelched at its very inception?" The answer to this is that YOU can't do anything. By yourself, anyways. Each and every one of us, as an individual, is powerless. But consider if only 10% of the total population of the U.S. decided to take up arms and march on Washington? That's upwards of 30 million people. What can 30 million people do? Well, they can do a lot more than 1 can.

It has saddened me greatly throughout my life whenever I thought of examples like the Kent State incident, where 4 American citizens, college students, were gunned down by their own countrymen, National Guardsmen. Where was the revolution then? There was none. Instead it was "Well, they killed four of us. They're not playing around. I guess we'd better join the system and try to make as much money as we can." Welcome to the '80's, the "Me" Decade. And if you're looking for the genesis of all the woes you're suffering right now, the '80's is a good place to start looking. Rather than let the deaths of those four American citizens COUNT for something, rather than let that incident be the catalyst for a popular revolution to overthrow Capitalism and establish Direct Democracy, they just gave up. Just like we give up. We sit there and watch Iraq and Afghanistan coverage on cable news, and we shake our heads, and say "That's a terrible shame. We shouldn't be over there." But do we do anything to stop it?

Well, here's something I'm doing to stop it. It may not accomplish much, but at least I'm trying. To all citizens of the United States and to all servicemen and servicewomen serving here and abroad, I have this to say:

IF YOU HAVE NOT JOINED THE ARMED FORCES, DON'T. IF YOU HAVE JOINED THE ARMED FORCES, MUTINY. REFUSE TO FIGHT. I AM AWARE THIS STATEMENT WALKS THE LINE OF TREASON, AND I MAKE THIS STATEMENT ON MY OWN. NEITHER MAHALO.COM NOR ANYONE ELSE ON THIS PLANET IS PARTY TO THIS STATEMENT. BUT YES, I ADVISE YOU TO MUTINY, BECAUSE YOUR LIVES ARE WORTH MORE TO ME THAN THEY ARE TO YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT!

"The significance of independence, however, came much later during my early years of college; at the age of 18 or 19 when I was living on my own as student in an apartment in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. My neighbor was an elderly retired woman (80+ seemed ancient to me at that age) who was the widowed wife of a retired steel worker. Her husband had worked all his life in the steel mills of central Pennsylvania with promises from big business and the union that, for his 30 years of service, he would have a pension and medical care to look forward to in his retirement. Instead he was one of the thousands who got nothing because the incompetent mill management and corrupt union (not to mention the government) raided their pension funds and stole their retirement. All she had was social security to live on."

The paragraph I just cited is exactly the point at which I started to cry. Because that old lady described in that paragraph might as well be my own Mother. My Mother was a musical genius. She was composing music at age 3. She passed up a chance to go to Juliard so that she could raise a family. Since she was a single mother with 3 kids, she went to work, naturally, at a place that seemed to pay a decent wage. Bethelhem Steel, Burns Harbor. She worked there for 30 years, performing all manner of unsafe jobs, such as cleaning asbestos, shoveling Coke ovens (for those not familiar with steelworker terminology, "Coke" is the substance that's left over after coal has been burned up), operating massive sheers designed to cut giant slabs of red-hot steel (sheers which can and have cut people entirely in half). At my mother's steel mill, people died from being crushed to death by falling Steel coils weighing tons, and there was not enough left of such people to scrape up with a spatula. She, too, worked there for 30 years. And when she retired, instead of a pension, she got a lump sum of about 25,000 dollars. 25,000 for 30 years of a**-busting service. That's less than a 1000 dollars a YEAR. Can you live on a grand a year? Do you know of anyone who can? I know I can't. And I don't know anyone else who can. And why this madness? Because politicians sold those pensions down the river, in order to help out their corporate cronies. Is THAT justice? I ask you, is that JUSTICE?!

"In retrospect, the situation was laughable because here I was living on peanut butter and bread (or Ritz crackers when I could afford to splurge) for months at a time. When I got to know this poor figure and heard her story I felt worse for her plight than for my own (I, after all, I thought I had everything to in front of me). I was genuinely appalled at one point, as we exchanged stories and commiserated with each other over our situations, when she in her grandmotherly fashion tried to convince me that I would be “healthier” eating cat food (like her) rather than trying to get all my substance from peanut butter and bread. I couldn’t quite go there, but the impression was made. I decided that I didn’t trust big business to take care of me, and that I would take responsibility for my own future and myself."

I too live on peanut butter and bread. Because I can afford little else. I make 400 bucks a month. My rent and bills are more than that. Add on top of that thousands of dollars of college debt that I can't pay off, from several years of college that amounted to nothing because, as I was working 16 hour days AND going to school full time, I had to drop out after 3 years due to sheer exhaustion. I can forget about my dream of making a living as a novelist, because economics is a beast which devours all dreams, just like mine. Like the tragic author of the above manifesto, I have learned better than to trust the business world to give a f*** about me. Because money truly does talk in our backwards society, and I cannot even hope to DREAM of ever having enough of it to matter to anyone who calls the shots. Am I the only one? I doubt it. I'm willing to bet some of my Mahalo creds (because that's about the only currency I've got right now) that there are a huge number of you who are reading this who are exactly the same boat I am. Because that's how the system works. It's OUR guts, and THEIR gold. OUR labor and THEIR Leer Jets. And all because the American electorate has been brainwashed to vote against their own interests. We are the proverbial crowd of peasants charging down the street screaming "MORE power to the rich! MORE power to the Aristocracy!!!!" How utterly stupid is that?

"I remember reading about the stock market crash before the “great” depression and how there were wealthy bankers and businessmen jumping out of windows when they realized they screwed up and lost everything. Isn’t it ironic how far we’ve come in 60 years in this country that they now know how to fix that little economic problem; they just steal from the middle class (who doesn’t have any say in it, elections are a joke) to cover their a***s and it’s “business-as-usual”. Now when the wealthy f--k up, the poor get to die for the mistakes… isn’t that a clever, tidy solution."

The preceding paragraph hit me hard. Do you want to know why? I'll tell you why. Because I am the poor that get to die for the mistakes of the rich. My body is falling apart, piece by piece. I walk with a permanent limp, I desperately need dentures, and my knees are already starting to give out. I'm pushing thirty, but years of hard labor have given me the body of a 60-year-old. Know what my healthcare plan is? I'm on the "Advil and water" plan. Because that's the only healthcare that is available to me. I live in a "Right-to-Work" state, or as we call them, a "Right-to-Starve" state. Employers are not required to provide s*** for us. And just when I thought maybe, just MAYBE I might finally be able to get some healthcare, our good friends the United States Senate decided that my life, and for that matter, your life, wasn't worth saving. And now, here is the reality. I WILL die. Not from old age. But from lack of healthcare. I WILL die. Thank you, United States Government and the Healthcare Industry! It's so touching that you have our best interests at heart, as always!

"I know I’m hardly the first one to decide I have had all I can stand. It has always been a myth that people have stopped dying for their freedom in this country, and it isn’t limited to the blacks, and poor immigrants. I know there have been countless before me and there are sure to be as many after. But I also know that by not adding my body to the count, I insure nothing will change. I choose to not keep looking over my shoulder at “big brother” while he strips my carcass, I choose not to ignore what is going on all around me, I choose not to pretend that business as usual won’t continue; I have just had enough."

He's right about that. He was not the only one to have all he can stand. And I cannot truly blame him for choosing to die rather than to let these wicked, EVIL people at the head of our Government continue to rape him. I do not in any way condone suicide, and certainly not homicide, but I understand fully what drove him to it. Because I'm ALSO at the "I've had enough" stage. Only, I won't pick up a gun and kill myself and/or others. Nor will I fly a plane into a building. That's not my style. Since it has been established that eventually, lack of healthcare, if not unsafe working conditions, will KILL ME, I've decided to fight back the only way I feel I can. I will continue to ROT this miserable, utterly broken system from the inside out until it falls apart at the seams and a new system is FORCED, or until I finally succumb and die. Whichever comes first. That's how I fight a revolution, folks.

"I can only hope that the numbers quickly get too big to be white washed and ignored that the American zombies wake up and revolt; it will take nothing less. I would only hope that by striking a nerve that stimulates the inevitable double standard, knee-jerk government reaction that results in more stupid draconian restrictions people wake up and begin to see the pompous political thugs and their mindless minions for what they are. Sadly, though I spent my entire life trying to believe it wasn’t so, but violence not only is the answer, it is the only answer. The cruel joke is that the really big chunks of s--t at the top have known this all along and have been laughing, at and using this awareness against, fools like me all along.

I saw it written once that the definition of insanity is repeating the same process over and over and expecting the outcome to suddenly be different. I am finally ready to stop this insanity. Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let’s try something different; take my pound of flesh and sleep well.

The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed."

I sorrow at the death of Mr. Stack, and the circumstances which caused it. I also sorrow for everyone who was in any way hurt or grieved by his actions. But I agree with his manifesto fully on every single point, and it does a good job of exposing the inherent, glaring flaws in our system. And Mr. Stack, though you're dead now, nonetheless I wish to say that you did not truly die in vain. Because even if I'm the only one in the world dedicated to the concept of drastic, irrevocable social/political/economic revolution, then at least the Revolution lives on in me. And will do so until the moment I draw my very last breath. Despite the fact that you went out in a very sad way, driven to the point where all hope was lost, nonetheless, I pray that your words will convert a few sheep into human beings. The world needs less sheep, and more people in it.

Slowly, the business world is changing a little (thank you, @Jason and thank you, Wikipedia and Google for giving us at least that!) but a little change is not even close to enough.

I apologize for my overly lengthy answer to this question. I didn't intend for it to be so long, but this is a subject that I've very passionate feelings about, and I've just literally released years of pent-up rage and frustration in the course of writing it. To end this answer, I'm going to put a bunch of pictures on the bottom of the answer. It's amazing how you can type one single word, "Despair", into Google Image search, and you come up with a bunch of pictures which describe this exact subject perfectly. Viva la Revolucion.

-Derek, "Baka13"
images:

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justin_time | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

Amazing response. It's very courageous of you to put yourself out there like that. Your personal reflections added to the bittersweet flavor of the manifesto, making each a read I'll never forget.

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doubleminaz | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

Derek, thanks for that response. YOUR call to action was heartfelt and well-expressed.

STACK'S call to action needs to be split into two parts: his letter and his subsequent actions.

His letter was well put-together and passionate, like yours. Like yours, I - and just about everyone - honestly could have empathy for the guy. But, the basis for most of his woes seems to have been his 20+ year running battle with the IRS. Perhaps it is my personal interactions with people who have similar ideologies - mostly, work-related - but I have little love for the let's-call-the-parts-of-the-government-that-we-don't-like-illegitimate-while-utilizing-the-parts-we-like groups.

Then, the actions that he took after he finished crafting the letter. Setting his house on fire with his wife and daughter inside. Flying a plane into an office building during the middle of the day. He was a sick man who finally went flying over the edge on his final sortie against the government.

I will defend your right to speak out - whether it is against our government or whatever. But, not when it crosses the line into illegality, immorality, and/or insanity.

(I'd expound further, but I've got to leave for awhile. Your answer deserves more time and thought, and I'll try to return to it later. Thanks.)

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baka13 | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

@justin_time I have been saying the very things that Mr. Stack said for years, but the problem is, no one listens. Well, maybe not no one. But few listen. Because, as they understand it, they have far too much to lose. This notion that they have far too much to lose, I think, is the product of social indoctrination, mixed with a natural love of their families. The social indoctrination comes in practically from the moment they are born, as they watch the behaviors of those around them. Their mothers and fathers, aunts and uncles, brothers and sisters, teachers, preachers, friends and acquaintances all hold to the belief that the system can somehow be changed from within, that somehow, the system can be re-shaped by playing by its own rules. This is tantamount to Anakin Skywalker thinking to destroy the Sith from within. No matter how idealogically pure one is when they enter politics, politics corrupts everybody. Without exception. There are only two ways that our system will be overthrown, and a new one can be set up. One is a massive cataclysm from without (natural disaster, major nuclear annihilation, total, and I mean TOTAL economic collapse), and the other is a blight, a rotting disease from within. There is no changing the system from within, because the very people we elect to do that are the very ones who get corrupted by all that power, all that money. Simply put, THEY have too much power, and WE don't have anything like enough. The myth that the system can be changed from within is a seductive one, I'll admit. But it is a myth nonetheless.

@doubleminaz One of the biggest tragedies of this whole incident is that, in reading that manifesto, I saw how articulate, how eloquent, how very intelligent Stack was, and I lament that he chose to remove himself and others from this world in the way he did, rather than devote that eloquence to the cause of Revolution. He didn't have to die. The others killed in this sad sad act didn't have to die either. He could have chosen to stay alive. He could have chosen, as I do, to spend his entire life FIGHTING. Even knowing it is likely a hopeless cause. But he didn't. That, I blame Stack for. But even so, I still can completely understand why he felt he was driven to do this. This is not about a private war against the IRS. Or even any one of the agencies of Government. This was a symbolic attack against the very MECHANISMS of Capitalism which enable all the evils of the system to come to be. No one human being on the face of this planet is responsible for the evils of our system. But the system itself, the way it works, the way it functions, is itself the culprit. And it is those very mechanisms of Capitalism that I seek to attack, and seek to destroy, so that the "machine" is utterly wiped out of even the MEMORY of every human being in the world.

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tracebooks | 2 years, 3 months ago
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I really feel his pain. At one point, I was hiring contract engineers. I was a recruiter. I had to fire one guy once, on my manager's orders, and I felt awful about it. This was several years after that law was passed. The guy was walking 2 hours to work because he had 4 kids, was building his own home, and had sunk everything he had into it. As a result he had BO, even though he showered once at work. My company had two complaints about him--just two--and then I was told to fire the guy. If you'd ever told me I could make a guy cry that was twice my age, I wouldn't have believed you. I then went to the restroom and tossed my lunch. I felt truly evil that day.

I know for a fact the middle class is being squeezed out of existence. I've heard this several times in statistics over the years; I've felt it myself. It's really not a good world where you're either worrying constantly about the next meal, or you're worrying constantly about all your investments. There has been a "middle class" for hundreds of years, since the rise of the merchants in the Middle Ages. Or even earlier, with the similar class in ancient Rome. Now it seems to be sink or swim in the Olympics.

Stack wanted to make a splash. He did it. He compares it to sacrificing his life for many. Unfortunately he took other lives in the process.

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brian san | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

Mohamed Atta wanted to make a splash. He did it. He compares it to sacrificing his life for many. Unfortunately he took other lives in the process.

Does it still have the same ring to it? To me it's no different.

Yes there are problems that need to be fixed, but this guy is not part of any solution that I want to be involved with.

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paulscott | 2 years, 3 months ago
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As someone who has been personally screwed by the IRS and when I called them to make payment arrangements over the last several years they have told me why don't I just sell something to pay it off? Like what? My house that I am underwater on because of the housing bubble? The car that I owe more than it is worth because I bought a GM and it lost value faster than I could make payments due to the high interest being charged by greedy banks because my credit score wasn't high enough because I didn't have credit cards? Then I am told after I get the cards that I have to use them or it doesn't help my credit. So I use them and then they keep my score low so they can charge my higher interest rates by floating due dates or slowly processing payments.

I understand his issue with the IRS and the royal screw job that the middle class is getting and has been getting for awhile. I don't agree at with how he handled it. It doesn't help his case being branded as a terrorist.

I don't know what the answer is to the problem. I do understand his frustration suffering at the hands of the IRS and having what you worked so hard for taken away from you with no recourse.

He should have put his software engineering skills to work and put up a website to advocate for those that have been harmed by the IRS and big government. Started a Not For Profit Organization and found allies in the media and on the Internet to help him and build a coalition to petition the government to fix the problems

I have heard from CPA's the tax situation is a mess this year and they even admit no one really understands it anymore. I have seen Not For Profits have money pulled from their checking or savings accounts because a form was filed late. An organization that serves a community could have been pushed out of existence because someone made a mistake. People who worked for that organization could have not gotten paid if there wasn't enough money and that was just their problem.

Jason, maybe it is time to put up a single site that people can report these issues and maybe get government to take notice of the majority of the middle class who are just being squeezed to death.

Flying a plane into a building solves nothing. But getting people together to stand with one voice and say it is time we have fairness and equity for all.

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blueflower | 2 years, 3 months ago
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I will start by pointing out that this man was a worthless piece of human garbage, whose actions do nothing but undermine any point he was trying to make. This is unfortunate, because a lot of the points he is hovering around (usually without really making) are things the country could stand to discuss. Frankly, instead of inspiring people who might actually have been persuaded to agree with his positions to revolt, he has only made himself revolting. His manifesto is one long screed about how all his financial problems come from pretty much anybody but himself, and without government/corporate/religious meddling his life would have been swell. Somehow this seems to be justification in his mind for trying to murder potentially 200 strangers, as well as burning down his family's house and putting his own wife's life in danger.(1) Talk about your epic temper-tantrums...

Moving on, I'll say he suffers from the same problem as most tax-protesters--he's preaching to the choir, and not making much effort to explain to non-tax-protesters exactly how the government's tax laws ruined his life, beyond saying "I tried to avoid paying as much of my taxes as possible, and the IRS caught me breaking their rules. Then they hit me with the fines and back-pay they’ve always said they would. It's not fair! *SOB*”, followed by claims that taxes are too complicated for anyone to manage. This would be more effective if a cursory examination of his history with the IRS didn’t paint a pretty clear picture of a man who didn’t give a hoot about following tax law in the first place.(2) Including a link to the discussion of the 1986 tax changes was helpful in showing an actual example of what he thought was wrong with the law. That bit of legislation is bad, but really, none of the things he brings up have me convinced government meddling has destroyed his life to the extent he's trying to claim. They’re certainly not worth killing over. His links aren't the best for explaining what exactly that law did (my sources explain the problem a little better, I think).(4a-c) It's unclear to me why so many people discuss this as if it makes it impossible for a independent contractor to work directly for a customer as an IC--that law shouldn't affect them unless they're working as part of a 3-party arrangement (customer, contractor, and something like a temp agency). Companies that didn't understand this may have been skittish about hiring independent contractors, but that seems like something a bit of judicious advertising about the state of the law could have prevented, not an insurmountable barrier to working as an IC.

I like how he closes with "the capitalist creed: from each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed". I'm sure this is meant to be commentary on the (admittedly) unfair plutocratic system this country seems to have developed. It's pretty ironic hearing it come from this guy, though. He seems to feel entitled to higher wages than the people he's working for are paying, and thinks the government should regulate them more to ensure that he gets that extra money (naturally he has no justification for why he's earned it, he just gives a bare assertion that he should be making more than he is). He acts like nothing he could have done would have made him successful in his career, when plenty of other computer techs adapted to the new legislation and market slumps just fine. Apparently he thinks the US government should keep military bases open for no real reason other than shoring up the economy in his neighborhood. I say this as a military brat, with friends and family in the military, who has lived in multiple towns that would be devastated if their bases ever closed: it is unfair to expect the whole country to dump money into your town every year for an unnecessary base. It's hypocritical to expect that while you’re railing against the government investing a fixed amount of money to keep companies that are the keystone of numerous local economies across the country from collapsing. This guy seems to have been fine with government intervention and using scads of taxpayer money as long as it ended up benefiting him personally. Somehow that isn't greed in his mind--greed is only for corporations, politicians, and the Catholic Church (?!). He seems to be rather myopic about the possible effects of not bailing out some of these companies, both on the nation and on his own bottom line. For example, I'm sure his efforts at finding work in airplane-related fields would have been much better had the airlines not been bailed out post 9-11. Also, clearly promoting easy access to his clients was more important than security at that time (*end sarcasm*). He seems to have been far more interested in sticking it to the man than doing what’s best for the country, or even what was best for himself and his family.

He complains that it's the government's fault he couldn't command the pay he thought he should be getting, due to them meddling in his financial affairs (through taxes), not meddling in them (by not forcing companies to pay him more), and through the government not being able to stop market crashes (though he appears to hate pretty much everything the government has tried to do to prevent their complete collapse). It’s unclear what role he thinks the government is supposed to play beyond putting Joe Stack’s interests before all others, and asking for as little as possible in return.

With the exception of citing his time eating cheap garbage in college (like pretty much everybody else I've ever known), and his alleged no-income period, he doesn't really sound like a poor person. He apparently managed to earn enough money to buy (and keep) a plane, and to get (and keep) a pilot's license. While I've known people who weren't rich and flew their own planes, it isn't exactly a common pastime for people with no money. He somehow lost track of $12,700 of income on his family's taxes, which seems strange for someone making anything close to the median family income in this country (around $73,000 for married couples), let alone for a poor family.(3) How could you not notice that large of a percentage of your household income missing on your documentation? Of course, that's assuming he actually made a good faith effort to check his taxes (as he claims he did). In more recent articles, his accountant claims Stack didn’t tell him about all of his family income, and when he finally found out and the IRS was auditing him, Stack ignored the audit until it was too late to do anything.(5) Now, he could be lying, but so far I find him more credible than Stack.

I don't have a problem with people taking the deductions and credits that are legally available to them. However, rather than actually making an honest assessment of his tax situation, Stack joined a group with exactly the same beliefs he had, and took advice solely from people who would tell him what he wanted to hear--that is, that he didn't have to pay taxes. Then he acted surprised when taking these alleged "loopholes" that only the "brilliant minds" in his group claimed were legal turned out to be illegal. Gee, what a shock! Speaking to anybody (and I mean ANYBODY) outside of his little group would have made it clear that these “loopholes” were ridiculous and illegal.(2) He attempted to say that his house was a church, because he felt it was unfair for churches to get tax breaks that he couldn’t take advantage of. It would be absurd to tax a non-profit religious institution in the same way we tax a solitary, for-profit worker. Their situations are nothing alike. The IRS has been clear about this.(6) But that didn’t matter to Stack—somebody was getting a break, and that person wasn’t him. He claims he was gullible to try to follow the laws of our nation, but doesn't seem to understand that he was gullible to think these tax-dodgers actually knew what they were talking about. Or, that he must really think we’re gullible to assume we’ll believe he actually thought posing as a church was a legal way for a computer tech to not pay taxes. Not to mention that we’d need to be really gullible to think this was something done out of patriotism rather than greed. He positions himself as someone who made a reasonable effort to understand his tax obligations, but his history says otherwise.(2)

He seems to believe that because he wrote letters to his congresspeople (and apparently everyone else's), and they didn't do what he wanted them to, that means he didn't have representation. He ignores the fact that there are a lot of other people in the country who don't necessarily agree with his positions who deserve representation too. He has the assumption that all the middle-class and poor citizens of the country would agree with all of his positions, but doesn't support it with evidence. Clearly he thinks that the government's disinclination to have Joe-Stack-friendly positions is evidence of the insidious influence of corporations, but he doesn't actually say anything to prove that. He claims the movement against the 1986 legislation was destroyed by corporate agents working inside the movement, and doesn't support that with any evidence. Nor does he give any indication that he has considered any other possible explanation for why this legislation may have passed that doesn't fit his conspiracy theory. Regardless of the truth of his assertions, he is arguing from his gut rather than reality. This isn't to say his positions are all wrong, just that a person shouldn't claim their arguments are being ignored if they aren't actually making their arguments in the first place.

While I encourage people to write to their congresspeople (every little bit helps), and meeting with people who agree with your political positions can be a positive step toward getting desired changes enacted, there are a lot of other ways this man could have gotten his message out without murder and suicide. Most of the big ones are outlined here:
http://www.factnet.org/A_Summary_of_Social_Activism_Techniques.htm
(As an aside, I don’t know much about factnet.org, so this isn’t meant to promote them—I just liked their summary)

Just whining about the unfairness of life to your friends and politicians isn't going to make change happen. Come to think of it, from reading the news articles about this tragedy, Stack didn't even get as far as whining to his friends. Most of them had no idea he felt this way about taxes, so this guy was even more ineffectual than most protesters.(1)(7) Perhaps he didn't want to risk hearing people he cared about disagree with him.

People trying to affect change in the country should avoid letting kooks like this become the face of their movement. Stack has probably seriously set back his cause, and the people who are celebrating his actions are making things even worse. Nobody wants to support a cause championed by murderers and the people who love them. Stack thought he was rallying "patriots" to water the tree of liberty with blood, or something equally delusional. What he's really done is terrorism, trying to sway the country to his will by forcing government action and encouraging violence against innocent people. It isn't like all those office drones at the IRS building are responsible for this guy's problems, or our shoddy tax laws. They didn't write them. Resorting to violence just shows that his argument isn't compelling on its own. What he has done just shows that he was monstrously selfish. In addition to believing he had a right to stay here, using all the services the government provides, without paying the tab our laws make it clear he owes for the privilege, this guy thought he had a right to destroy a building (two, if he did indeed burn down his family's house), and kill a bunch of people just to make his point. Then, he left a manifesto that he obviously knew wasn’t going to be very effective in changing anybody’s mind (but would let him vent without hearing any rebuttals) and left his wife and children to deal with the aftermath of his actions.(7) The man was an irresponsible coward, and it will be a shame if his actions are what leads this country to reexamine its tax laws. Apologies to anyone looking for an impartial, objective analysis of his manifesto--his actions were just beyond the pale for me.

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aui's Avatar
aui | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

What about when there is repeated evidence of the US government either sacrificing its own citizens or using them as test subjects for illegal experiments?

Two under or un-reported stories from 9-11 bring this up: an architect alleges the Twin Towers were already condemned for structural flaws...

http://redlineav.com/tsg.deposition.contd.2.html
http://www.rense.com/general47/pulled.htm

And the day before the event Rumsfeld had a press conference at the Pentagon to go over the missing $2.3 Trillion from the Pentagon budget. Leaves were cancelled for the accountants and they were all ordered to show up the next day. Guess which part of the building got hit?

Even Columbo could figure out a motive here...

http://www.9eleven.info/ChicagoJun06.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/29/eveningnews/main325985.shtml

Seems we are past the point of peaceful protest.

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derosajohanna | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

Correcting myself there: I didn't know anything about this guy apart from the fact that he wrote this manifesto then flew a light plane into the IRS building.

You might be right there - preconceived feelings probably do influence how it reads a little.

I guess I probably do feel that all the collective negative things that have been done, not done, neglected, ignored, etc by whoever has made the U.S.'s decisions over a period of time, amounts to much more to be up in arms about than what this guy has done, even if it wasn't a responsible way to go about things.

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derosajohanna | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

Hmm... I didn't count the paragraphs on each topic, or count how many sentences were about tax, or anything like that. I just read the thing, about this person that I didn't know anything about just prior to it.... and came away with an impression of a discussion about the state of the nation, not about tax or the IRS. That's just how it reads to me.

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blueflower | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

I see where you're coming from, baka. The way things are set up in this country, as businesses get larger, they grow more powerful, there's more pressure on the leaders of the companies to make money for their investors, and responsibility for the company's actions becomes more diffuse. The huge corporations are pretty much designed to be amoral money-making machines, and their investors don't feel any culpability for whatever negative actions the corporations take to maximize their profits. It's difficult to punish all the people responsible for illegal actions undertaken by the companies, and even if we manage to nail some of them, enough get away with their misdeeds for it to not be a real deterrent. It's a bad situation all around, and we should do something about it. I wouldn't be surprised if we agree on a lot of the nation's problems, actually.

Where I have to disagree is that it's impossible to get the government to pay attention to the needs of its people, rather than the wants of the richest and most powerful individuals. Perhaps I'm naive, but I think the system can still work. I also would need a much clearer picture of oppression in this country to even consider revolting. As I see it, the vast majority of Americans aren't of the opinion that our circumstances warrant revolt. As such, I think it's immoral to resort to violence to get my way--I would be way too worried that I was forcing my will on an apathetic populace based on a faulty assumption that they agreed with me, rather than being one of the first people to do what everybody else is thinking (if that makes sense). There's a thin line between freedom fighter and terrorist, after all.

One of the things that makes Stack so horrible in my view is that his actions are going to taint the discussion of all the issues he brings up. His actions were counter-productive, as well as being evil. When people celebrate this man and/or his message, it just makes it more likely that those who read or hear that are going to see anybody making similar points as being a potentially dangerous loon, too. You're better off making your own arguments without even referencing this guy.

I also have to say that I'm pleasantly surprised to see how civil the discussion is around here. I've had a lot of political discussions on QnA sites other than Mahalo that were nowhere near this reasonable. It's good to see people keeping an open mind while making their own good points. It makes me feel a little more justified in my hope for a better future. :)

@ doubleminaz: Thanks!

@ the comment above this (sorry, it went into voting before I saw you): I've looked at the arguments for why people think 911 was an inside job, and I just don't believe them. I understand why you're suspicious (and believe me, a part of me really wanted to believe that was true because I disagreed with so much of the last administration's policies), but I never did find the argument that compelling. 911 is one of those things that I see as being caused by incompetence, rather than outright malice (on our government's part--obviously the terrorists were malicious). So, I would put the desire to revolt over that as an example of people attacking the government for the wrong reasons.

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baka13 | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

And what about those of us who have reached the conclusion that the U.S. Government simply doesn't care? You suggested working through already established means which already exist within the system (writing congresspeople, for instance), but to many, myself included, that action has become a clear futility.

I agree that Stack could have, and should have, found a far more constructive way to make himself heard. But I also don't see this whole sad debacle as really being about taxes at all. Not at its core. Certainly, he attacked the IRS (in more ways than one), but it seems like the taxes were merely the last straw. (Personally, I love taxes, because I love schools and roads and sanitation systems. I think taxes are great, and I wish EVERYONE would pay them equally). The center of the issue is the fact that the Government simply doesn't care about the 96 percent of us who do not have the money, and neither does Big Business. Both these are points reiterated time and time again in the manifesto.

I'm not saying the man should be canonized. He did a very terrible thing, and I don't think anyone condones flying a plane into a government building employing civilians. But he did raise several good points prior to that final act of stupidity, and those points should not be lost in the general outrage at his actions. That's the way I see it, anyway.

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baka13 | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

See, I think it could have been anyone doing this, not just Joseph Stack. There are a lot of angry, outraged people in this country. The very structure of the Capitalist Republic makes those at the top wicked and vicious people, not even necessarily through any choice of their own. We literally cannot have an uncorrupt government within the parameters of a capitalist republic. Our system simply does not allow for the pure and untainted.

My position on this has never been to defend those trying to shirk their civic duty (such as paying taxes). When it comes down to it, Stack (though I personally agree with his anti-government and anti-corporate views, and share his outrage at the extermination of the middle class, could just as well have been anyone, but what was important was the message that lay at the core. People like me are being marginalized out of existence by this system of ours which declares war on the poor. This is my country. I was born here. Lived here all my life. I would not flee even if I had the financial wherewithal to do so, because this is my homeland. So my other two options are to lay down and die, or to rebel and die. Given those choices, I choose to rebel. I'd prefer it not to have to come to an armed civil war. I'd prefer that the Republic relinquish power peacefully, willingly, and for the good of the land and all its peoples. But if it must come down to armed revolution, I would support it. Because the United States Government declared war on the poor a long time ago. That means they declared war on me. And my family. And the families of everyone I know.

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derosajohanna | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

I agree with you, Baka.... it seems that a lot of people are just focusing on this guy's IRS problems, and don't seem to look at what the manifesto is really about - which is about the need for change in MANY areas, and the futility of hoping, waiting, or asking for these changes.

Again, I don't believe it was right to act in a way that caused death and I don't think he should be looked at as some sort of hero. But his manifesto isn't really about taxes or the IRS.

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derosajohanna | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

Lon, or someone who can fiddle with the system, can you help me? This question is saying that I voted for it. I didn't intend to.

Not to devalue this well-written answer, but I don't want the outcome of this question to be messed up by an error.

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blueflower | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

Different people can take very different things from the same bit of writing. We all bring a bit of ourselves into our interpretation. For someone already deeply frustrated with the status quo, I'm sure the bits about an uncaring government ignoring the needs of its less wealthy citizens in favor of the rich, powerful, and influential come across as being more important to his manifesto than I see them as being. I may be a little harsh in my reading because, as I said in my answer, I find what he's done to be inexcusable and fundamentally evil. In the face of that, I have a hard time giving him the benefit of the doubt that I probably would have had I read his life story under other circumstances.

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doubleminaz | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

Excellent answer, blue! Thanks.

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blueflower | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

@ Baka: Personally? If I honestly believed the government didn’t care about its people at all, and was seriously only interested in furthering the interests of a select few, and that there was no hope of changing that, I would try emigrating somewhere else. If there were really no way to influence the system, there’s not much else to be done other than leave, bow down, or revolt. I don’t think it’s realistic to think the American people will ever revolt again, short of us being taken over by some Hitler-like evil (which I honestly doubt will happen in a nation this size of this diversity, regardless of how loosely we toss around the Hitler comparisons toward our politicians, but I suppose one can never be too careful). I think we’re entirely too complacent for anything to drive us to mass violence other than an invasion of some sort. I still think the government isn’t a lost cause, so I can’t help but think a lot of the people who act like it is are out of touch with reality (or at least blowing things out of proportion). There's also a problem of people blaming bad legislation on government corruption that may better be explained by stupidity or ignorance (either that of our representatives, or our fellow Americans). It's one thing to voice your opinion in as many forums as possible, but it's another to do it in a way that really educates people about the reasons for your positions. What the average American hears about many of the important issues facing us today is so dumbed down and buried in partisan garbage that it's a wonder our nation makes any good decisions at all. Partisan hackery is not Stack’s problem, obviously, but I don’t think he’s being rational about his complaints either.

@ the both of you: The reason so many people are focusing on taxes is that’s the only thing this guy cared about enough to talk about in any detail in his rant. You are welcome to explain whatever great and noble truths you see in this document (as I said at the start of my answer, even I think he dances around a few good points), but for me, the man comes across as someone whining about paying taxes and adding a tiny garnish of “look at me, I’m a patriot martyring myself for the fight against corruption” to make himself look better. The only “patriotic” action he cites having ever taken is fraudulently representing himself as a church for tax purposes. Look at what he’s written. Well over half of the paragraphs are about taxes. A small minority deal with corporate greed/stupidity, or the undue influence of powerful groups/people on our government, but they’re usually really vague, or primarily serve to point out how difficult it was for him to scrape together a living in between getting hit with penalties for cheating on his taxes. He also seems to be holding their indiscretions up for comparison—“I’ve been dragged through the mud for these relatively minor things I got caught doing, but look at what the rich and powerful get away with”. It comes across as self-serving, rather than genuine concern for the state of our nation. Perhaps more details will come out showing he had some other political interests beyond tax law. As far as I can tell, this is the only thing he was actually passionate about.

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derosajohanna | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

ummm.... sorry, I don't know what I've done here... This answer seems to be saying I have voted for it?.... I didn't intend to. Sorry... Lon? Little help, can you undo it or something? Or is firefox just messing with me somehow?

Not to devalue this well-written answer, but I don't want to mess up the outcome with a mistaken vote.

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justin_time | 2 years, 3 months ago
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His "terroristic act" served three purposes:

(1) It will result in ridiculous Homeland Security laws against every US Citizen (aka domestic terrorists). He foreshadows this in his note, if you read closely. He foreshadows that a revolution is imminent and necessary. He felt that he was starting it by prompting the "kneejerk reaction" of Big Brother. He hoped that this reaction would prompt a violent revolution, which he felt was the only way to change things.

(2) It was a final vent for his anger against the IRS, as he attacked a local IRS office. It was a futile gesture, but was more for a symbol of his anger.

(3) It ended his life. He was tired and didn't want to be here anymore.

I sympathize with this man. It is very hard to get ahead in this country financially, as you're constantly pushed around by the mega rich or the government. Look at what happened to the retired steelworker's wife. The IRS Tax Code wasn't even properly set up, and it's not enforced objectively (how can it be, when no one understands everything in it).

Many people want a revolution in this country but are unwilling to participate in any violence to obtain one. They are unwilling because they feel they can have a revolution without violence.

Joe Stack was beyond thinking about any nonviolent revolution. He thought everyone was too comfortable to care about starting one.

His act will likely result in acts against normal, innocent people via restrictive DHS legislation for domestic terrorists. Joe Stack thinks this is the only way to "wake them up."

I still think there could have been other paths to change that didn't involve the loss of life.

He could have ranted about his findings and become a conspiracy theorist millionaire, like Jeff Rense.

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baka13 | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

I think one of his intentions was indeed to force Homeland Security to take repressive measures. The theory is supported by Che Guevara in his book "Guerilla Warfare", in which Che states that the only way to topple the regime in power is to expose their illegitimacy. By forcing Homeland Security to adopt perhaps repressive measures, he likely thought to increase the dissatisfaction of the American people to the point where they would just finally wake up and see the true nature of the American system. I doubt this one act of his will accomplish that, but it DOES represent a reality check, as did Columbine (an incident, sadly, that we as a nation seem not to have learned from).

Stack was an extraordinarily articulate man, and it is a shame he didn't use his intellect for constructive, rather than destructive, ends. But I can see what it is he was trying to accomplish, even though he went about it in completely the wrong way.

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ritrzblok | 2 years, 3 months ago
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Whether you agree with me or not, suicide in any form is an act of a coward. Strength is in fighting, losing, getting back up, and fighting again.

For those that are claiming this man to be a hero, have you thought of the message that you're sending to the rest of the country, and the world for that matter? Want to be a hero? Didn't get the grade you thought your deserved? Just drive your car into the front entrance of your school! That will get their attention!
Silly isn't it? So is the idea of crashing a plane into a federal building because life didn't go your way. I can completely agree that our government is failing us, horribly. But I certainly don't think that those injustices warrant this type violent behavior.

Columbine?

The Oklahoma City Bombings?

Virginia Tech?

These were all acts of violence, because someone felt injustice. Regardless of the reason, these people intentionally placed themselves and others in harms way....and for what? The credibility of their belief. Stupid.

I am the product of a horrific childhood, dealt the short end of the stick for years. Beaten and abused, poor and unworthy.....does this entitle me to drive a semi truck into a preschool, just to prove a point? No it does not!

I think we need to examine how we are reacting to this. He is not a hero. Heroes save lives, struggle to go on in the face of adversity, and show strength when others can not. This man was a coward.

His death will not change anything. What he failed to realize, is hundreds of thousands of Americans have died throughout the years, struggling for a change. Civil rights and even present today as we continue to lose lives overseas....for a war most of us do not believe is necessary. He died in vain. That is the saddest part.
source(s):
Simply my opinion

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aui | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

So with this line of thinking, what about when the US govt makes up false evidence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, invades it with bombs, etc. killing or maiming thousands of civilians in the process, and most savants think it was just to get control of their oil fields?

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derosajohanna | 2 years, 3 months ago
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I don't believe it's right to cause physical harm to someone who is not personally physically endangering you or your family or someone you consider you should protect from harm, etc. If that makes sense.

But I respect the freedom that people have to make a choice about what they are going to do with their life, and I don't feel it's in my best interests to personally judge or condemn those who, for example, join an army believing that they are doing a good, important, or "necessary evil" thing, or feeling that it is the only option available to provide for their needs and that they "probably won't end up killing anyone who is innocent".

What I've just said seems to me to be completely riddled with contradictions and oxymorons, but I don't want to continue on that here, I just want to express a few other thoughts on the question without ending up in a political debate or offending anyone.

I must admit, very often I find myself wondering, "Do any Americans still believe in the idea that the "system" by which their lives are run, organised, looked after, whatever you want to call it, really works and has much justice or fairness?"

As a non-American, I find America incredibly intriguing, confusing, mindboggling, unbelievable.... I don't know how to even explain it.

After growing up with Disney movies and American TV etc, I remember becoming a teenager and learning about some things, and just feeling like scales were falling from my eyes. I have never lived in the USA and have met very few Americans in person. So I can't exactly stand by this vision of America that I have, 100%. I don't live there. So what I say or think comes only from the information sources I have access to that I have a reasonable amount of faith in. (There's another thing that is it's own thousand-strong set of discussion threads.)

I still remember the first few times that I saw examples, through the media, of the worldview of many Americans. It just gobsmacked me. I don't want to inflame people's sensitivities, but... I have to be honest, there seem to be quite a few Americans who, to me, seem far crazier and more disconnected from reality than any terrorist, dangerous religious fanatic, cult member, etc.

What I find heartening is the fact that the "world-view" I have seen in certain Americans seems to definitely be on the decline. The worldview (or maybe "America-View") I'm talking about was, as far as I understood, pretty common until maybe just the last decade or so. It still seems to be very strong in some places, but... I've been absolutely fascinated by the changes that appear, to me, to be happening in American culture.

I feel glad to know that this world-view that at times I've thought pervaded the majority of Americans is very much an individual thing, and there must be plenty of people who have never subscribed to it nor subscribe now.

I'm not nationalistic at all, and there are huge numbers of things in my country that make me want to put my head in my hands and weep at the hopelessness/unfairness/futility at times. But I've got to say that we do seem to have some sort of system where what people want and need has some level of influence in what happens and what gets done. I don't understand nearly enough about the political system of my country or any other to authoritatively make the following statement. But my understanding is that over here, and in many other democratic countries, there are extremely strict rules that anyone who is in government or making decisions on behalf of people can pretty much NEVER, EVER, have anything to do with any money from any source other than prescribed, extremely scritinized, transparent income from the government itself for their job?..... And the government itself, and its bodies and departments, cannot have any real connections or overlap of any kind with any corporation or anything except for itself?....

From what I understand, this seems to just not be the case in the USA and I just can't understand how or why? I can't understand why this has not been changed or how this came about in the first place? I just don't understand the things I read or hear about how the system works over there! I am just gobsmacked about the idea of senators or anybody in the government, or any party or group of that kind, having any ties or contributions or anything whatsoever to do with any corporations, business, anything! I just don't understand the idea that this is allowed in any way! When I first tried to find out a bit about this stuff, and a few other things about the way the USA works, I just went, "OH. So THAT'S whats wrong with everything over there." What seems to be normal over there would be the most incredible scandal over here! We just don't get it!I can't understand why there has not been some kind of revolution or coup or something, except for the fact that.... I don't know... can you really ever overthrow your government or your system with that amount of military might behind it?.... And with the military and everything related to it being such an important source of income for so many people?...

I'm not sure, does the USA also have a completely independent, accountable, taxpayer-funded media with no business or financial links to anything else and no censorship being done in the wrong way...? That doesn't hurt either if you have one of those and it's working well....? Maybe it's just a cultural thing too, I've seen American comedians etc. come on Australian variety comedy/talk shows and just scream with amazement and delight at the things that they can't believe we would joke about or talk about on TV here....

Of course I don't fully understand the problem or solution. But what can I say is.... while I don't condone the actions of some people and the ways they go about making their point, I quite often sympathise more with the overall ideology and "complaints" of certain kinds of people who are doing crazy things to try to change something or get people to wake up.

I will always find the USA extremely fascinating, unbelievable, and intriguing for so many reasons. What really interests me is where it is heading and what's going to happen next. A 1999 Rage Against The Machine lyric, referring to America's place in the world and its influence on the world around it, says "We've reached the end of history. It's caged and frozen still. There is no other pill to take, So swallow the one that makes you ill." Which makes you think... Yeah! In the past the biggest empires and world powers have pretty much always had a use-by date - in time, change occurred. So what will happen in America's case and when? Throughout the lives of many generations of people, the USA has been the dominant world power, the head of the world. We all thought Americans must be happy with what is happening in their country and living the best lives. Now that we know it isn't true, we wonder... can they actually do anything about it, from the inside? When change occurs, what will be the catalysts and the methods? Actually, I just posted a question related to this the other day. I had just watched Weird Al Yankovich's "Canadian Idiot" clip and had realised how weird the idea of being in a "commonwealth" and having something to do with the Queen must be to Americans... How strange it must be to have these sort of almost-American neighbours, whose lives are so vastly different. My question was about what you think American life would be like now if the independence had never occurred.

I do regularly wonder, are the citizens of the USA in any position to change something they don't like, don't agree with, or don't feel is fair or just? And how many of them believe that change needs to occur?

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derosajohanna | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

I'm Australian. :)

Yeah, there definitely could be a hundred separate threads about the outside perception of the USA and Americans. :) Hmmm... do I smell revenue share income? :D

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doubleminaz | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

Whoa, Jo! There's a heckuva lot to unpack in here, and I think we should do it on a separate Q&A thread. If you start one, DQ me and let me know, and I'll do the same. I really want to explore your perceptions (and others') of the U.S. (If I recall correctly, you're from the Phillipines, right?) Thanks--mm

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derosajohanna | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

Wow... I've also just realised how incredibly inappropriate my comment was, really. Sorry. :( The topic feels somewhat distant to me, but it sure isn't for you guys - and of course no matter where I live, it's terrible what happened in terms of the fact that lives were lost.

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llamadude | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

derosajohanna, Thank you for the input. I spent 8 1/2 years living outside the U.S. and was amazed at some of the world opinions of Americans. I also couldn't believe some of the things that I come to realize when I moved back stateside. Where was the country that I’d loved, and spent nearly 10 years defending? I realized that I’d been away from the media brainwashing and walked on the other side of the fence. Don’t get me wrong, I do love this country, I just don’t love what has become of it’s people and representatives. In my opinion the American people have gotten greedy and lazy. They want the American dream given to them, they don’t want to work for it, they want their 15 minutes of fame, and they want to be told what to do and what to think. And it is happening. Law suits are rampant, drama in the workplace prevails over hard work, YouTube, reality television, paparazzi following talented people doing untalented things, idiots not even newsworthy are making the headlines, and the government tells us who we can or can’t marry, how we must raise our children, and so much more. And we let this happen and encourage it. Corrupt, greedy idiots are elected and reelected but someone who rids unemployment and the national deficit is impeached because of something that happens behind closed doors and has nothing to do with their job performance. What baffles me is that this is becoming more and more accepted elsewhere. I somewhat understand how, I just don’t understand why, and what are “we” doing to fix this. I definitely feel J. Stacks frustration with the system. I have hope that it will change, from the inside. Democracy has the potential to work and does work in many places but until the people rid the corruption these actions will likely continue. I’m just happy I ended up in a small town 6 hours from a major metropolis, in the middle of nowhere America, when I nearly moved to D.C. a few years ago. That’s my opinion. Best Regards.

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aui | 2 years, 3 months ago
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The simple answer: The Declaration of Independence--Quote: "When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them..."

And,

"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security..."

And, --Not in original sequence--

"That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness..."

--Unquote http://www.earlyamerica.com/earlyamerica/freedom/doi/text.html

I can't add much more, but how is this current act of rebellion any different than our forefathers'? This act will be to all the discontented wingnuts what 9-11 was to the Jihadists...

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amybrowne | 2 years, 3 months ago
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I believe that he speaks for so many of us hard working Americans who are at the mercy of Big Brother. I do not agree with what he did (crashed a plane) but I do very well understand his thought process. There are countless people all around the US who go to teas parties who openly vent and tell others how they feel. Perhaps those tea parties will be heard some day. Perhaps not, but one can hope.

I had come in here to post a link for the buzz page I created.. I did not realized before I wrote the page that this manifesto existed.

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sauce | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

Bravo, Joe. Like you, I refuse to accept the political corruption and the gluttonous greed of the Useless States of America. I am jealous that you'll never have to watch another obese lemming killing themselves with that McDonald's Quarter Pounder they're munching on while driving their fuel-guzzling SUV to Wal-Mart. I'm jealous that you'll never again have to watch laughable aftermath of our reckless oil consumption, and you'll never again hear the hate that erupts from the middle-America Palin-ers. If your discontent is seen as terrorism, then there are millions of terrorists right here in the United States.

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gdrisme | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

It's everyone else's fault and he takes no responsibility for his life. This is immaturity. He never grew up. A lot of us around this age (the1960's) never grew up. We feel we're entitled to everything just like a punk teenager. This generation (not all) is a group of spoiled children and are chomping at the bit to drain Social Security and Medicare.

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awakened | 2 years, 3 months ago
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Here is a lengthy thought process that I have been putting on many other forums since Joseph A. Stack gave his life. I modify it as necessary to fit the attitude of the forum in question, and to enlighten the ones who may read it. Admittedly it is a long post, but I feel that it adequately describes the thoughts in the minds of many Americans. Feel free to borrow from my post because this idea isn't just mine alone this is an idea that many people share and no one single person can own it.

Personally, I think Joseph A. Stack is a hero. He did something that has been in the minds of many outraged Americans for years, and I agree that things have gotten to the point that violence will be the only voice heard.

Joseph A. Stack wasn't some moron that didn't know what he was talking about, he was an engineer and a well informed citizen capable of expressing his thoughts clearly and accurately. I'm not saying that people without formal educations should be overlooked, I am merely pointing out that he was intelligent enough to realize the sorry state our nation is in and take the only course of action left for many of us.

Some would say "Joseph was a wealthy engineer that could afford an airplane, so he couldn’t have been too bad off". The truth is, despite the assets he had, he was backed into a corner by the same institutions that propose to govern us. These same institutions have backed many of us into similar corners by controlled manipulative consumerism or strong-arm robbery on their part. If you don't believe me then consider the home foreclosures and outrageous credit card debts a majority of Americans have been plagued with. If you don't believe me then consider the outrageous gas prices and tax hikes we have seen lately. Sure, they would appear to be unrelated...but aren't they all governed by the same greedy corporations that work in tandem to rob us of our value as human beings?

The bottom line is, it is time for our government and the corporations that run it to begin fearing and respecting us as American citizens. I would prefer that they listen to us under peaceful circumstances, but they have shown that they are unwilling to do that. All of the voting, demonstration rallies, and letters of complaints written to congressmen that have been ignored for so long have proven this. So, logically speaking what is the next step for us as a nation and as a people?

I think Joseph A. Stack had the correct answer.

In reference to "Fight Club"...
His name wasn't Robert Paulson it was Joseph A. Stack

To further modify this, I would like to point out that his wife and daughter weren't even home when he set his house on fire. I urge every red blooded American to consider what Joseph Stack did and consider taking similar steps. I know it's a sickening thought I really do and I can't believe it has come to this, but let’s face it we were blatantly shown that our votes don't mean anything to the powers that be. We have been shown that nothing we do will change their mind except for violence.

Please don't get caught up in racism or political finger-pointing. Many have said things to the effect of "If he were Muslim or an Arab there would have been more concern about this and the government would take a more drastic approach". It has also been said that he was a member of the Tea Party, which makes some believe that he was a right winged extremist nut job. The fact of the matter is, Joseph A. Stack was a decent hardworking American citizen by all counts. He tried numerous times throughout his life to simply live the American dream, and was denied on every attempt so he decided that it was time to take a more proactive approach. The point I am making here is that this is something that every American citizen can get behind regardless of race or political preference because we all pay taxes in the end don't we?

Here are some other things to consider, the following are comparisons to our modern day America that we live in and two other points in history. One of them being the time slightly before and during the French Revolution, the other one being right before and during the Nazi takeover of Germany before and during World War 2.

In France before and during the French Revolution:

There were political and social inequalities. The French elite enjoyed privileges that simply were not available to the common person. It even got to the point that the common person had virtually no voice in politics. They did however get to work and pay unfair taxes. The King of France Louis XIV had spent so much that France had become bankrupt. His ministers and noble clergy did nothing to cut their spending to alleviate the financial problem. His successor Louis XVI even dismissed those in power who tried to balance the financial situation. Once 1789 had rolled around France was bankrupt. The people were even afraid that the king would suppress what little voice the lower class had, known as the National Assembly. Finally the infamous "Storming of the Bastille" took place and the French Revolution was finally underway.

In America Now:

There are political and social inequalities. Name your case; I am sure any one of you can name a few. Our elite few enjoy wealth and privileges not available to us such as the big corporate bailouts that only seem to line the pockets of the greedy CEOs and their immediate underlings. Many of our political leaders are renowned for enjoying privileges we can scarcely imagine; once again take your pick. Our voices in politics have been and possibly always have been removed from being able to make any real impact. The fact that Bush was allowed to serve two terms when he faced high opposition proved this, and the Electoral College further proved this point. Our ministers have spent so much that we are now almost bankrupt; people are losing their homes and drowning in debt every single day. We have gotten to a point that we are honestly convinced that anything we try to do as a people will meet such high opposition that it will meet a brick wall.

In Germany before and during the Nazi Occupation:

There was the Enabling Act that reads a lot like a certain act we are familiar with in America today. There were prison camps set up that very few German citizens were fully aware of, they simply knew they existed and learned to fear them. The German people were given the Jew; a nameless, faceless enemy that was responsible for the many crimes Germany had suffered for, the threat of being a Jew would serve to sew discord and distrust among everyone to the point that anyone speaking out against Hitler would be called a conspirator and promptly dealt with. Control of the media and mass propaganda were in place to ensure that the German people would only know what Hitler and his goons wanted them to know.

In America Now:

We enjoy all of the security provided for us by The Patriot Act, which reads a lot like The Enabling Act. We have been made vaguely aware of a concentration camp in Guantanamo Bay and there are allegations of several others in the middle east that are still in operation. We are given the Terrorist, a nameless faceless enemy that is somehow responsible for all of the troubles we endure as American citizens. The Terrorist has been used to sew distrust and discord among us, any thought of speaking out against the policies currently in place may cause the government to deal with us with such techniques as blacklisting etc. Our media has been under the control of the government and other large corporations for years, there is even an act circulating right now known as The Cyber Security Act of 2009.

Once again I hate the idea of violence, I truly do...but let's face it these similarities can no longer be ignored. What does it take for us to look at history and realize what is happening? In Germany it literally took Nazi Soldiers coming into towns and taking people from their homes in the middle of the day, and even then people in the next town were hard pressed to believe that people were being hauled off by the truckload to be placed in large ovens so that they could be burned alive. Is that what it's going to take for us to wake up? This isn't some conspiracy theory cooked up by some nerds in a basement that can't get a date on a Saturday night...these are actual facts.

Thank you for taking the time to read what I have posted, I truly appreciate your patience and I sincerely hope that at least one person has walked away from what I have written here with a higher purpose and awareness.
source(s):
For details concerning the character of Joseph A. Stack:

http://www.cnn.com/search/?query=Joseph+Stack&primaryType=mixed

For any other items a simple Google search will yield plenty of results. Here are some of the finer points to put into your search bar so that you don't have to read through that lengthy post again.

The Enabling Act

The Patriot Act

The Cyber Security Act

The French Revolution

The book "Night" by Eli Wiesel depicts the apathetic and disbelieving nature of the German people as told from one of the Holocaust's victims perspectives.

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sukakun | 2 years, 3 months ago
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One, it strikes me strange that Joe Stack blamed everyone but himself. Two, if he wanted communism so bad, why didn't he hop a boat to China? There ARE options, after all. Sounds to me like he wanted to be a victim until the end. A very well informed and educated victim, but a victim nevertheless.

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sukakun | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

My reasoning is simple really, baka13. If I don't believe in capitalism, then why in the world would I want to wallow in the middle of possibly the most capitalistic nation in the world? If I want a government with communist ideals, they why in the world would I NOT try to immigrate to a nation that most mirrors the conditions I want to live in? I picked China because they're better off than nations like Cuba, but other socialist nations can fill in just as well if we choose to be more lenient with our definition of communism, but that in itself can dissolve into a flame-war.

And I'm not approaching this from a 'better the nation' point of view, I'm approaching this from a 'personal contentment' point of view. Joe Stack was unhappy - violently so - so my post-humorous question is 'Why not go to where you can be happy?'

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baka13 | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

Because in this world of globalism we live in, there IS no place where I can be happy. My life will be no better in China (though I do love the country and all their contributions to the world dearly). It will be no happier in Nepal, or in Djibouti, or in El Salvador.

I seek to change my homeland because I see it as my duty to myself, my duty to my country, and my duty to my people. No one in all the world would or could be blamed for seeking to change their homeland on those grounds.

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doubleminaz | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

Good point, and welcome to Mahalo!

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baka13 | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

Why SHOULD he have hopped a boat to China, @Sukakun? When the problems facing him were right here in the United States, the place he was no doubt born and raised?

I've never understood this "If you don't like it, go somewhere else" mentality. I, for instance, am an American. I was born and raised in Indiana. I live in South Dakota. I've never lived in another country, because this is my homeland. Is it not the civic duty of a citizen to stay and make their own country better, rather than just fleeing? How does fleeing to China at all change things in America?

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magnusdopus | 2 years, 3 months ago
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he contradicts himself. on one hand he complains about the Detroit bailout (which saved over 100k jobs), but then he asks why there wasn't a bailout in california when the military bases were closed.

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doubleminaz | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

Good point, and welcome to Mahalo!

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gloryrose | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

He had ligitimate arguments but obviously taking life is not the answer.

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shortwave | 2 years, 3 months ago
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Since 9/11/01, our Government has insisted on knee jerk reactions that have been uneducated at best. One only has to look at U.S. history since then, and you will find a direct tie to our economic situation. Each action our national leaders take costs money. Though we know these actions are taken based on what is thought to be best at the time, decisions have backfired in the sense of homeland and international relations.

As a result of the public tendency to not think before acting, people in corporate positions that have direct influence on society as a whole as well as each and every community the local level leaders serve see some sort of impact. Remember th eold adage that every action causes an equal and opposite reaction. This is not only a scientific fact, but a fact of a large society such as we live in here in the U.S.A.

Employers become questioning about the expenditures they make, which also has an economic angle. As we know, political and economic issues go hand in hand. Jobs are lost, people fall behind on their bills, their mortgages, rents, car payments, taxes, etc. This creates a crisis which can undo even the most stable person. The actions of this pilot who crashed his plane were aimed at the wrong people, but they were also meant to send a message to our nation's leaders.

Like Amy, I am appalled that lives were taken and people injured. It was reported that only one person died, but it was one person too many. The investigation into this man is still on-going and it will not surprise anyone to find that he had issues in his life as a result of the same issues impacting him that impact all of us. He targeted the IRS because he felt as if they were being overbearing on his tax situation. He felt targeted by unfair actions taken, and likely could not afford to obtain legal counsel to help him out.

Let's examine what type of person does this, and the concerns that are now raised. It is likely that he was paying the IRS back for having fallen behind on his taxes or even accidentally reporting his taxes improperly. Taxes and tax forms are complicated things. People get audited all the time for mistakes which are most times not any sort of crime, but the audit takes place to make sure of this.

He likely did not know that he could work something out with the IRS, he had other factors that played out in his unraveling. He became distraught, paranoid, angry, felt like a victim. He was likely in a state where he suffered from what professionals call "Persecution Disorder". Maybe this man even suffered from some other emotional or behavioral problem. In the end, he had a psychotic break. He was going to pay back all the wrongs against him whether real or perceived.

The pilot of this plane saw no way out of his problem, saw himself as a loser, a burden on his family, his self-esteem dropped with the other emotions overriding his sense of ability to compose himself. His reasoning skills diminished. in all of the turmoil, he became suicidal and homocidal at the same time.

Why did he target the Texas office? There may be some possibility that the pilot knew he stood very little chance of a successful attack on D.C. given all the flight restrictions in place. He also knew that to do the most damage, he would need as much fuel in his plane as possible.

The pilot of the plane knew that compared to a large airliner, his plane was not going to pack much of a punch. Premeditation was likely a factor here. He knew he would not need a flight plan, knew his intentions would not be questioned. He could just take-off, carry out his plan, and it would all be over. In the end, this pilot took more than just one life...he irreparibly harmed the lives of everyone involved to include his own family. In that manner, he took their lives from them. He killed their spirits, and caused a lifetime of trauma.
source(s):
Multiple news sites, common sense, life experience

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doubleminaz | 2 years, 3 months ago
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baka13 | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

Well, my point is that the guy makes a cohesive and totally sane case. Yes, he committed a terrible act. Yes, it's bad that he felt he had to kill ordinary American citizens to make his voice heard. Yes, this is a terrible tragedy, and I'm not disputing any of that. But I can hardly consider him a monster for this, and I find it very hard to understand how anyone else can vilify him for this. Why are we blaming HIM for this, and not the system that made him? That's my point. Granted, my own economic situation makes it a bit easy for me to relate to this guy, but still, it seems to me that the Government and Big Business gets off scott-free when we place the blame entirely on the shoulders of men like Stack. I will go out on a limb and say the VAST majority of the top echelons in the Corporate world and United States Government are among the most disgusting unhanged scoundrels in the world. Yet THEY'RE supposed to be the good guys, while Stack is the bad guy? Misled, certainly, but hardly the bad guy.

That aside though, I made my comment simply because I felt that if one didn't read the thing, they couldn't just flat out condemn it. I don't know that anything in the manifesto would change your analysis, but I was merely suggesting that you read the whole thing in order to be able to formulate an informed opinion about it one way or another.

Technically, it WAS a terrorist act, but that does not in any way change the fact that it was the Government and Big Business that was the direct cause of this. Not insanity.

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doubleminaz | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

Good point, baka. In reality, I skimmed it pretty thoroughly. But, was there something I missed that might change my analysis?

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doubleminaz | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

Sounds like he was a bitter, sick man. It is a sad story. But, I don't want to do more than skim his rant. That he flew the plane into a building filled with people says to me that he was looking for more than giving the IRS his (pound of) flesh; he wanted to kill people who were not responsible for his situation, to try to fan the flames of fellow anti-government protesters. HE IS A TERRORIST!

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doubleminaz | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

Thanks, Derek, for acknowledging that it was a terrorist act, if only "technically". I disagree with you (strongly) that our government (or, "Big Business") was the direct cause.

(I'm going over to comment on your answer, so I'll try to avoid repetitiveness here.)

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baka13 | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

@doubleminaz Perhaps you might want to read his piece in its entirety before you pass judgment on it. Just a suggestion.

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doubleminaz | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

Latest: 2 injured. 1 still missing.

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doubleminaz | 2 years, 3 months ago Report
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doubleminaz | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

Snippet from latest CNN piece (same cite as above):

Two F-16 fighter jets were sent from Houston as a precaution, but federal authorities said preliminary information did not indicate any terrorist connection to the crash.

"We do not yet know the cause of the plane crash," the Department of Homeland Security said in a release. "At this time, we have no reason to believe there is a nexus to terrorist activity. We continue to gather more information, and are aware there is additional information about the pilot's history."
***
Going with what I said earlier, I believe the DHS release was generalizing terrorism as being ISLAMIC TERRORISM. Given that DHS Secy Janet Napolitano (was lambasted for having) talked about domestic terrorists with different agendas, I am guessing that we will see a DHS spokesperson clarify that earlier statement.

This guy may not have been part of an organized anti-IRS, anti-govt group - a la Timothy McVeigh, etc, but I submit that his actions (pre- and post- bombing) add up to terrorism.

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paultenny | 2 years, 3 months ago
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This was not an instance of domestic terrorism, or terrorism at all.

1. Stack didn't make any demands of the civilian population of the government before the attack.
2. It wasn't religiously or seemingly politically motivated (it was *legally* motivated, if you read it well enough).
3. It wasn't an attack against civilians, it was an attack against the government.

And it's really that last point that's the deal breaker. Terrorists don't really attack governments, they attack civilians. He didn't do that.

A horrible crime certainly, but still just a crime. Mass murder with a plane because you're nuts and unhappy is still just mass murder, no different than when done with a knife or a rifle.

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cheapgamer | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

"Terrorism : the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/terrorism

If this was not terrorism nothing is.

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baka13 | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

I'm sorry, but I fail to see how this answer was unhelpful. This question was intended to be a discussion of the manifesto and the act associated with it. As @paultenny was expressing his opinion on the matter (which, as I understand, was entirely the point of this question), and was not spamming or anything like that, I think the "unhelpful" votes seem a bit unjustified here.

That said, I do have to point out that this was, in fact, every bit as politically motivated as it was legally motivated (If not more so).

I agree with @cheapgamer in his definition of Terrorism, though. This was indeed an act of domestic terrorism. Just because it was a terrorist act, though, doesn't make the points raised by Stack in his manifesto any less valid. Sometimes, people are just plain driven to terrorism. It is lamentable, I admit. But there you have it.

And one last thing. I think that the U.S. Government (particularly in the form of the CIA) are bigger terrorists than Stack could ever have been. No, two wrongs don't make a right, but again, that doesn't make the Government any less responsible for this.

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derosajohanna | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

I don't mind refuting of facts, but I'd have to agree that with this kind of question, I feel sort of like there probably shouldn't be any voting of unhelpful. Unless someone comes in and writes "I like boobs" or something. (Unless the question in that case was "How do you feel about boobs").

Although I understand that some would feel that an answer should be voted unhelpful if it contains anything that they feel needs a "Fact Refuted".

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paultenny | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

What is this "Fact Refuted" silliness? If it was refuted then it's not a fact, if it's a fact then it cannot by definition be refuted.

And you haven't refuted anything.

This act doesn't meet the definition you listed. There was no coercion and whatever terror it caused was a one-time incident, not systematic. That ridiculously broad definition could encompass high school bullying for crying out loud.

My "answer" was 100% accurate whether people personally approve of it or not. Don't just dismiss it as if this act was anything other than one of a thousand murders that happen in this country every year. If this guy does it with a gun instead of a plane, or in his own home instead at an IRS building, then nobody would be making the argument that this was terrorism.

It's not magically terrorism just because it involves a plane, folks. And as I already explained, the fact that it targeted a government building over a complaint against the government (justified or not, that was his reason) rather than civilians pretty much seals the deal. I mean heck, transport this guy back in time far enough and they'd be giving him a medal during the revolutionary war. Doesn't justify his actions today, but to call it terrorism is to be pretty darn obtuse as to what terrorism means and what his actions represent to different people.

It was a terrible crime, and I said as much, but taking a step back and treating it like a crime -- which is the appropriate response -- isn't to lessen it in any way. To the contrary, to treat things like this as terrorism is to lessen terrorism such that it becomes nothing but a meaningless catchall for any violent act that we don't like.

This was not domestic terrorism, period.

Consider this post by law professor Jonathan Turley on the definition of terrorism and what that really means: http://jonathanturley.org/2009/06/17/defining-terrorism-we-can-call-people-murderers-without-diminishing-their-crimes/

Turley wrote about how common criticism from liberals consisted of "the tendency of the Bush administration and conservatives to call every possible crime an act of terrorism." And now he says we're turning things around and trying to call things like the murder of Doctor George Tiller (the abortion doctor) domestic terrorism because "to call them 'murder' or 'hate crimes' would diminish their significance."

That was not his argument, but the argument of those who think virtually every violent act should be called terrorism because that ratchets up the rhetoric and emotion.

"There is an important legal difference between people who seek to terrorize a society through coordinated acts of killing and people who act on impulse to kill people they hate. Calling something a terrorism case puts it in a different category for investigation and prosecution. Special laws and punishments apply. The classification allows a now massive counterterrorism apparatus in this country to use powerful investigatory powers to seize records, tape telephones and hold witnesses."

It's a good and important read, something I think anyone who gave a negative vote to my comment needs to think very seriously about.

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baka13 | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

@aui Yes, in 1776, the American Revolutionaries were the "Al Qaeda" of their day. But they're only terrorists if they lose. If they win, they're "heroes". Watch the video I'm posting here, and you'll see what I mean.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egSx5m5MFLk

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aui | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

Wouldn't the original American Revolutionaries be considered "terrorists" by their British enemies?

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shadowbear | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

There was nothing unhelpful about this answer.
It is a valid opinion and @paultenny has the right to state his in a discussion based question.

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brian san | 2 years, 3 months ago
11
Here is the way I see it. If a man flies a plane into a building, or shoots random people, or blows himself up in a crowded market, I don't want to read his manifesto, or hear his reasoning or have anything to do with him.
I would also prefer his name be stricken from public record instead of becoming a martyr or hero of some sort.

Yes, there are great problems with the American system of government. Does that mean we should resort to anarchy or terrorism (and then have our media exploit it to no end)?

I did not read this manifesto, and I do not intend to. It's too disgusting.

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brian san | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

I don't doubt that there are many ways to improve the IRS and our tax system as a whole. But I don't care if this fellow has penned the best solution to the problem ever written, I'm not going to read it.

Perhaps Osama Bin Laden also has a great memoir stashed away in a cave that he will release (and our media will have a field day with), but I have no interest in that as well. I really don't see a difference between the two of them.

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paulscott | 2 years, 3 months ago Report

Sometimes reading the manifesto explains the mind of the actor. In this case while I disagree with the action he took the man felt backed into the corner and had no other option. People like Stack and the Tea Partier's feel backed into a corner and no one takes a good hard look at the IRS and how the treat Americans. When the IRS is involved you are guilty until proven innocent, you only get a very limited time to appeal but they can come after you for as long as they want.

The IRS needs to be totally restructured and the media won't listen and government won't listen. Violence isn't the solution but the manifesto could bring some of it to the forefront.

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