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This does not sound like a good idea to me at all. Maybe for a college kid going for his first job at "Bob's Tool Shack." This definitely would send the wrong message. The banker needs to be calm, cool, and himself.
For one, most of the open jobs right now are "contingent" rather than Full Time Employee jobs so that they can kick you out if they see fit, and most of these jobs go through staffing agencies.
Also, they've already decided that they have the budget (or "req") for a new person, and unless this is a ma -pa organization, this free trial thing would probably never even fly due to all of the HR paperwork. If this is an interview for a consulting position, it is very likely that the staffing agency has narrowed the choices down to 10 or under, so the 200 applicants may not mean much. If it is a full time employee position, I feel the same is true. I would even say it is generally well under 10 that receive interviews for positions of this stature.
I think people often do not understand that hiring managers are not idiots. They know exactly what they want.
If he got an interview, they probably already know he can "do" the job. They just want to see if he will work well with the dynamics of an established team.
You'd be surprised to see how much of it is simply "This is a person with whom we can get along. He's like us." And there are hundreds of little issues he has no control over. The team may think he is too old, or too fat, or too thin, or not funny enough, or not professional enough, or the wrong color, or too bald. There is no way he can know these things and little he can do other than be himself and be calm and "work" the situation. If the interviewer seems to be funny, then play along. If he is stoic, play along. Don't believe half of the hype on the internet about interviewing. These people generally don't have the time to screw around with this process and give you "trick questions" or "try to see how you perform in a high pressure situation." They want someone that can do the job that will fit in.
Source(s):
manager at a global wealth management firm
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Source(s):
http://ezinearticles.com/?When-Can-You-Pay-Less-Than-Minimum-Wage?&id=7...
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Some of my previous experience navigating the corporate world also tells me that some companies might not be setup with the ability or procedures to have a non-paid position. They may reject the offer simply for fear of not knowing how to handle it. This would be less likely to happen if the organization has non-paid internships, cause then they would at least have a clue how to do it.
I know that argument may seem silly. That it's easy to handle from the business's side: they just don't pay me. Some bureaucracy wins out over intelligence.
My opinion might be influenced with more information about the particular company he was applying to. My gut says to CONFIDENTLY make the offer. Make sure it's put in the light of "I'm so sure of my abilities, I can work for free, because I know you won't want to let me go after" rather than possibly letting it be interpreted as a desperate "Please let me have this job, I'll work for free to prove myself, and you're not obligated to keep me"
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From my perspective I think the best thing to do is send a note that explains how matched your qualifications are and that you are so sure in your ability to do the job that you're willing to--if it makes their decision easier--to start the job as a contractor for 30 to 120 days.
This will give the employer the ability to "try before they buy" without starting up the benefits, and it also makes for a clean exit when the consulting relationship is over. So, at day 60 they can say "Thanks for the hard work, it was great. We no longer need your services."
Of course, any good company shouldn't NEED to have a trial period. Good companies have no problem letting go of folks who are not a fit whether it's day three or day 30.
My heart goes out to the 50+ crowd who are many times discriminated against, and who have a really tough time finding work in this environment. My dad has had a similar issue where folks have said flat out "we need someone younger or hipper." Sad.
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Sidenote:
I heard on NPR, the other day, that a marketing firm laid off about 10 employees and then offered to pay the first months salary to any firm that would hire their old employees. So this concept isn't totally unheard of and might be the way of the future or until the job market improves.
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Answered Question
M$2
March 27, 2009 07:13 PM
Job interview strategy.
I know a 52 year old banker. There are thousands of them layed off in this market. He had an interview for a job which had over 200 applicants. His resume made it far enough to get him an interview with HR. His experience exactly matches the job description. That went well enough to get him an interview with management next week.
They will not have an applicant with more relevant experience. He went through the workouts in the S&L crisis in the 80's.
He wants to know: "If I am getting the feeling that I am not making the cut, should I offer a free trial period?"
Example:
"Put me on the job for one month without pay. If you don't think I did you a good job at the end of the month, we will part friends."
They will not have an applicant with more relevant experience. He went through the workouts in the S&L crisis in the 80's.
He wants to know: "If I am getting the feeling that I am not making the cut, should I offer a free trial period?"
Example:
"Put me on the job for one month without pay. If you don't think I did you a good job at the end of the month, we will part friends."
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| March 27, 2009 08:05 PM |
For one, most of the open jobs right now are "contingent" rather than Full Time Employee jobs so that they can kick you out if they see fit, and most of these jobs go through staffing agencies.
Also, they've already decided that they have the budget (or "req") for a new person, and unless this is a ma -pa organization, this free trial thing would probably never even fly due to all of the HR paperwork. If this is an interview for a consulting position, it is very likely that the staffing agency has narrowed the choices down to 10 or under, so the 200 applicants may not mean much. If it is a full time employee position, I feel the same is true. I would even say it is generally well under 10 that receive interviews for positions of this stature.
I think people often do not understand that hiring managers are not idiots. They know exactly what they want.
If he got an interview, they probably already know he can "do" the job. They just want to see if he will work well with the dynamics of an established team.
You'd be surprised to see how much of it is simply "This is a person with whom we can get along. He's like us." And there are hundreds of little issues he has no control over. The team may think he is too old, or too fat, or too thin, or not funny enough, or not professional enough, or the wrong color, or too bald. There is no way he can know these things and little he can do other than be himself and be calm and "work" the situation. If the interviewer seems to be funny, then play along. If he is stoic, play along. Don't believe half of the hype on the internet about interviewing. These people generally don't have the time to screw around with this process and give you "trick questions" or "try to see how you perform in a high pressure situation." They want someone that can do the job that will fit in.
Source(s):
manager at a global wealth management firm
| Asker's Rating: |
• There were several good answers.
You sound like you have been there.
Thanks for the advice.
You sound like you have been there.
Thanks for the advice.
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Other Answers (5)
March 27, 2009 07:26 PM
As far as I am aware, you cannot legally work for anything less than minimum wage (other than workers that work for tips). I don't believe the corporation would allow such a deal, based on that fact if, nothing else. On a more personal note, I would not work for no pay, even as a bargaining tool. There is no harm in asking, but I don't think that a deal like that will be agreed upon.
Source(s):
http://ezinearticles.com/?When-Can-You-Pay-Less-Than-Minimum-Wage?&id=7...
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March 27, 2009 07:32 PM
Ouch, that is a very interesting, and tough scenario. While on one hand you may intrigue the company into giving you a shot, you may also be screaming "I'm desperate and willing to do anything". Some of my previous experience navigating the corporate world also tells me that some companies might not be setup with the ability or procedures to have a non-paid position. They may reject the offer simply for fear of not knowing how to handle it. This would be less likely to happen if the organization has non-paid internships, cause then they would at least have a clue how to do it.
I know that argument may seem silly. That it's easy to handle from the business's side: they just don't pay me. Some bureaucracy wins out over intelligence.
My opinion might be influenced with more information about the particular company he was applying to. My gut says to CONFIDENTLY make the offer. Make sure it's put in the light of "I'm so sure of my abilities, I can work for free, because I know you won't want to let me go after" rather than possibly letting it be interpreted as a desperate "Please let me have this job, I'll work for free to prove myself, and you're not obligated to keep me"
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March 27, 2009 07:34 PM
While it might seem like a compelling offer to give an employer "one month's free" work, I think it has a chance of sending a message of desperation rather than flexibility. From my perspective I think the best thing to do is send a note that explains how matched your qualifications are and that you are so sure in your ability to do the job that you're willing to--if it makes their decision easier--to start the job as a contractor for 30 to 120 days.
This will give the employer the ability to "try before they buy" without starting up the benefits, and it also makes for a clean exit when the consulting relationship is over. So, at day 60 they can say "Thanks for the hard work, it was great. We no longer need your services."
Of course, any good company shouldn't NEED to have a trial period. Good companies have no problem letting go of folks who are not a fit whether it's day three or day 30.
My heart goes out to the 50+ crowd who are many times discriminated against, and who have a really tough time finding work in this environment. My dad has had a similar issue where folks have said flat out "we need someone younger or hipper." Sad.
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Helpful: philipy, drmatt, williamwaco, robbrown, demanda
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March 27, 2009 08:12 PM
I totally agree with Jason. In my profession, there are therapists who give away the first session. In my hobby, there are magicians who give away a show for free (because it would be good publicity).
You HAVE to know that YOU ARE WORTH IT. Your time is valuable. You are worth as much as you THINK you are worth.
In fact, when I started charging more for sessions, MORE people came in... because there was a perceived value.
Just some thoughts...
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You HAVE to know that YOU ARE WORTH IT. Your time is valuable. You are worth as much as you THINK you are worth.
In fact, when I started charging more for sessions, MORE people came in... because there was a perceived value.
Just some thoughts...
March 27, 2009 09:49 PM
"you are so sure in your ability to do the job that you're willing to--if it makes their decision easier--to start the job as a contractor for 30 to 120 days."
I was in the final stages of an interview process not long ago. I didn't fully understand that the company was asking me to come on contract not to sidestep negotiation but to "try me out". I wish that I had of had this advice then... I may have been gainfully employed :)
"Of course, any good company shouldn't NEED to have a trial period."
At least this makes me feel better.
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I was in the final stages of an interview process not long ago. I didn't fully understand that the company was asking me to come on contract not to sidestep negotiation but to "try me out". I wish that I had of had this advice then... I may have been gainfully employed :)
"Of course, any good company shouldn't NEED to have a trial period."
At least this makes me feel better.
March 27, 2009 08:58 PM
That's a great way to market yourself in competitive times. Like others have stated before, I'm not sure if it's legal for him to work for free but "volunteer" time is subjective and up to the lawyers to decide. Either way, anything he can do to minimize the risk of the potential employer should give him a leg up. Sidenote:
I heard on NPR, the other day, that a marketing firm laid off about 10 employees and then offered to pay the first months salary to any firm that would hire their old employees. So this concept isn't totally unheard of and might be the way of the future or until the job market improves.
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March 28, 2009 05:43 AM
It's important to understand the basic types of interviews that take place at a job fair since your approach should be different with each. As you watch and listen from the side, you will be able to determine which type of interview is being conducted and modify your approach accordingly. Unless you are certain that the employer is conducting secondary interviews, do not consider it a negative if all you went through was the screening or mini-interview. I realize that it can be rather depressing to spend two quick minutes with a Recruiter after a 30-minute wait, but that is the reality of the meat market mentality of job fairs. Just make sure you know what the next step is and follow up. This is not the time to cross your fingers and hope--take charge and make things happen.
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More important than figuring out a strategy for what to if the interview is not going well is changing the attitude going in, so it turns out well.
It looks like in this case a great attitude to have would be:
"I'd be great at this job. I want this job very much. Now, what will it take for us to have this work?"