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Could I refuse to attend office’s off time courses? Does a workplace have a right to command their workers to attend off time course?
My work contract is from 7pm to 4 pm, Monday to Friday, and occasional Saturday when the school needs me. However, there is a recent development that we should attend Chinese language course from 4 pm to 5 pm twice a week, and one company aerobic session from 4 pm to 5 pm, for purpose I can’t even comprehend. The wife of the owner is very authoritative and do not like to be gainsaid. There are 2 people being forced to quit already before their contract ends for several reasons, one is rumored because he gainsaid the “mistress”.
I've been working on Saturdays for many times without proper compensation and I'm really fed up with this school.
I plan to resign after my contract ends next year anyway, so it doesn’t really matter if they don’t like me enough to keep me. I plan to get Master degree while working freelance as writer.
On the other hand, I don't want to resign with many problems. But it is actually my right to refuse to do more off time activity not related to my work. But what do you think? Am I being a petulant and rebellious worker to refuse?
I've been working on Saturdays for many times without proper compensation and I'm really fed up with this school.
I plan to resign after my contract ends next year anyway, so it doesn’t really matter if they don’t like me enough to keep me. I plan to get Master degree while working freelance as writer.
On the other hand, I don't want to resign with many problems. But it is actually my right to refuse to do more off time activity not related to my work. But what do you think? Am I being a petulant and rebellious worker to refuse?
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It is all a matter of the type of position you are in. For example, clerical staff in the US cannot be required to work overtime without either being compensated, usually at 150% of their normal pay rate, or else being given "comp time" off their standard hours during the following days to compensate for the added hours. However, professional employees such as e.g. engineers are considered "exempt" from such overtime requirements, are more highly compensated in their base salary, and are expected to work evenings and/or weekends on a temporary basis without being paid overtime if their project(s) require it. Ethical managers and company owners will usually provide comp time even to exempt workers as soon as they can, and if the unpaid overtime becomes too long-term, such managers and owners will find a way to compensate the exempt employees through e.g. bonuses.
The bottom line is that if your position is not an exempt one (and assuming either you are in the US or that similar laws apply where you live and work), your bosses have no legal or ethical right to force you to work longer than the standard hours detailed in your contract. If the contract requires 40 hours per week, and specifies that business hours are from 7 AM to 4 PM, they may be able to require you to attend relevant training after hours, but they should them pay for that overtime based on whatever rate your contract specifies, and if it does not specify a rate, then based on usual practices in your industry. At the very least they should pay 2.5% of your weekly pay for every such hour required (i.e. at least 100% time).
Something to consider however is that while they may be ethically, and possibly even legally in the wrong, should you refuse to follow instructions, they could let you go. If they are truly unscrupulous, they could even make up some unrelated excuse and claim they're firing you "for cause" which may mean (a) no severance pay, (b) you may lose unused leave, (c) they may be unwilling to give you a good reference letter, and (d) they could even spread the word that you're unreliable, etc. The bottom line is that being right is one thing, but being smart about it is possibly even more important.
The bottom line is that if your position is not an exempt one (and assuming either you are in the US or that similar laws apply where you live and work), your bosses have no legal or ethical right to force you to work longer than the standard hours detailed in your contract. If the contract requires 40 hours per week, and specifies that business hours are from 7 AM to 4 PM, they may be able to require you to attend relevant training after hours, but they should them pay for that overtime based on whatever rate your contract specifies, and if it does not specify a rate, then based on usual practices in your industry. At the very least they should pay 2.5% of your weekly pay for every such hour required (i.e. at least 100% time).
Something to consider however is that while they may be ethically, and possibly even legally in the wrong, should you refuse to follow instructions, they could let you go. If they are truly unscrupulous, they could even make up some unrelated excuse and claim they're firing you "for cause" which may mean (a) no severance pay, (b) you may lose unused leave, (c) they may be unwilling to give you a good reference letter, and (d) they could even spread the word that you're unreliable, etc. The bottom line is that being right is one thing, but being smart about it is possibly even more important.
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voted helpful: lidyax
I honestly don't understand what you are trying to say.
I think he is trying to express that many things are done on company time that are not company related. In other words, you take from your company in different ways, so why not give back as well.
Just my own idea of what he's trying to say. I could be wrong :)
FTR my own idea is that it depends. Can it help further your career? Would it be beneficial to you to take the class?
Whether or not you like your job or are about to resign isn't really the issue. I think it is a positive thing to join in when things are offered that could make your position easier.
If that's not the case, and it's 100% not relevant to what you are doing, then I'd simply talk to the person in charge and express my concerns.
Just my own idea of what he's trying to say. I could be wrong :)
FTR my own idea is that it depends. Can it help further your career? Would it be beneficial to you to take the class?
Whether or not you like your job or are about to resign isn't really the issue. I think it is a positive thing to join in when things are offered that could make your position easier.
If that's not the case, and it's 100% not relevant to what you are doing, then I'd simply talk to the person in charge and express my concerns.
I have no idea why aerobic class can help to improve our teaching (we are teachers working at school). The Chinese course used to be optional, but now mandatory.
If you're leaving anyway, their opinion of you here shouldn't follow you to your next job. If they say the extra work is voluntary, then you have no requirement to do it.
You could also try reasoning with them, saying you have somewhere important to be. That will usually buy you a few weeks or months if handled well.
It also depends on your state. If you're a "Right To Work" State, they can fire you without cause, any time they like. They usually won't, but they have that option. Not attending these voluntary classes might be grounds for termination to them, so it's good to know.
You could also try reasoning with them, saying you have somewhere important to be. That will usually buy you a few weeks or months if handled well.
It also depends on your state. If you're a "Right To Work" State, they can fire you without cause, any time they like. They usually won't, but they have that option. Not attending these voluntary classes might be grounds for termination to them, so it's good to know.
It is not extra work, if it is extra work, then there will be no voluntary. All additional work is compulsory, regardless it is within my job description or not, or if they take my weekends.
I'm upset because I've already work most Saturday without additional pay and now they make this courses outside of work hours mandatory.
They cant fire me without cause as we are both bound in contract, but they can find vague reasons to do that.
I'm upset because I've already work most Saturday without additional pay and now they make this courses outside of work hours mandatory.
They cant fire me without cause as we are both bound in contract, but they can find vague reasons to do that.
Well, on the positive side of things, you get to learn a new language for free. Unless I misunderstood and you have to pay.
I think you should learn the language and start looking into jobs that are looking for this. Between that and your masters you'll be laughing all the way to the bank and you'll look back on this as a short time in your life that was slightly miserable, but became profitable for you.
Best of luck!
I think you should learn the language and start looking into jobs that are looking for this. Between that and your masters you'll be laughing all the way to the bank and you'll look back on this as a short time in your life that was slightly miserable, but became profitable for you.
Best of luck!
No, the language class is free. They only teach conversation , and I've actually spoken Chinese since I was a kid. Language might be useful, but aerobic class? Anyway, I'll attend the language class, but not the aerobic class I think.
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I am still considering what to do. Several of my friends want to protest. I might end up going to the mandatory courses.
I draw the line at attending the aerobic class though.