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2 years, 6 months ago

Is the ACLU correct in defending children who wear "Islam is the Devil" T-Shirts in School?

http://www.wptv.com/media/lib/90/2/0/4/204e4c19-8ec7-43ec-84b8-ca6a3315db90/Story.jpg

---quote--
The American Civil Liberties Union has sued a Florida school district. The lawsuit claims the Alachua County School District violated students' rights by not allowing them to wear T-shirts with an anti-Islamic message.

The civil rights organization says it doesn't agree with the "the ,"message printed on T-shirts distributed by the Dove World Outreach Center and worn by area school children. But the ACLU says it supports the students' constitutional right to freedom of speech.
--/quote--

http://www.wptv.com/content/news/topstories/story/anti-Islamic-shirt-aclu-wptv-Islam-is-of-the-Devil/k6BfeRVi6EavXm03g_LUqA.cspx
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dimitrykaplun's Avatar
dimitrykaplun | 2 years, 6 months ago
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I, for one, am very pleased to see them defend such speech, even if I very much doubt that they will ultimately succeed.

Technically the ACLU is correct if free speech is taken as unlimited, but the fact is all speech is limited and controlled up to certain "reasonable" restrictions. For example, it is a crime to yell "fire" in a crowded movie theater, and a company may be opening itself up to liability and sanctions if they print misleading information about their products (or advertise products, such as cigarettes, in a medium that is now barred from such use, like television and magazines).

Children, being minors, do not have full rights and can therefore be legally limited from using their civil rights by their legal guardians and custodial parents. Since the child is in school, the school is deemed as a legal guardian, and consequently can curtail, limit, or otherwise delineate certain rights and privileges that adults possess. Under that argument the school had every right to limit the student from wearing the shirt.

The reason I am personally pleased that the ACLU is taking on this case is frankly because as of late the organization has been much less vociferous and supportive of conservatives in trouble. Being painted as a liberal organization, the ACLU tends to champion causes that almost invariably set off conservatives and excite progressives. This case should do the opposite, and should bring more balance to certain valid debates being put forth by both sides on the political spectrum.

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dimitrykaplun | 2 years, 6 months ago Report

What the heck does my post have to do with thinking ability, racism, or divisions between humans?

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safiqulislam | 2 years, 6 months ago Report

Just thinking how poor your thinking ability. In science no on says that, teach a child racism or division between human. So I think they not only incorret but also doing great inhumanity.

Anyway, I will not get natificated if you make another comment there. So you are most welcome in mahalo's IRC chat room if you has anything to tell.

Thanks
safi

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mmecca's Avatar
mmecca | 2 years, 6 months ago
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I get freedom of speech, but in a school setting, school staff serves "In loco parentis" which means basically that the school staff serves as the parent of the child. Schools have routinely put limits on what students wear when what they wear advocates drugs, alcohol or messages of hate.

I think that school districts are justified in their actions.

I think it's great that the ACLU is seeking legal clarification on these issues, but I think in the end, their efforts will be unsuccessful.

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albanian's Avatar
albanian | 2 years, 6 months ago
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Conservatives attack the ACLU because usually it winds up on the opposite side of cases from them. But the ACLU has always supported free speech even when they disagree with it, and the ACLU has always tried to get a day in court for people with unpopular opinions.

This newspaper article discusses the case a bit more and describes why the ACLU think they have a constitutional argument:
http://www.gainesville.com/article/20091124/ARTICLES/911241001/1002

Note that it is not just that the school system has prohibited the t-shirt slogan. The school has prohibited one side of the shirt without prohibiting the slogan on the other side. The other side is a pro-Jesus slogan.

Well, you can't do that. If religious slogans on t-shirts are too disruptive for school, you have to ban them all. A school board can't show favoritism to one religious slogan over another.

The school board could adopt a school uniform, or maybe ban all slogans on shirts. It can't be inconsistent about it.

Whether or not the ACLU wins the case, or simply gets the school board to issue clear and fair rules, it is good that the ACLU is there to bring constitutional issues to this and so many other low level government bodies which have little legal knowledge and lots of prejudices for and against emotional things.

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rising falls's Avatar
rising falls | 2 years, 6 months ago Report

Not to oppose anything you said, but instead to add to it, I bet that conservatives would have a problem if the placement of Jesus and Islam were reversed.

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extrudedcow's Avatar
extrudedcow | 2 years, 6 months ago
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The message may be wrong, but defending the right to display the message is absolutely correct.

I'm not sure why the ACLU chose to participate in this particular fight, however. This is a somewhat nasty bit of hate speech they're going out of their way to protect, and schools are often given some latitude when it comes to keeping their students in order. It's not unlikely that the ACLU will prevail, but I think this is a situation that would have been better to ignore.

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astralebanon | 2 years, 6 months ago
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Do you all believe that it is freedom to hurt anyone's belief? Coz I don't!
A Muslim child has the right of being respected like any other child! This is not freedom. This is silly discrimination based on ignorance and issued of people who think they are right and that they are the best while they are killing people all over the world! and I am not Muslim nor do I intend to "enroll" in any organized religion! For they all lead to fanatism!

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mahaazar's Avatar
mahaazar | 2 years, 6 months ago
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I agree that everyone should have freedom of speech or freedom of expression. At the same time, I wish that no one should have the "Freedom of racism" or "Freedom of religious discrimination". If you look at the sentence, you can easily say whether it is simply an expression or it is a 'religions discrimination'. I believe that we all belong to the one human family and anything that spreads hatred among us should be stopped immediately. ACLU has done a bad job in this regard.

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safiqulislam's Avatar
safiqulislam | 2 years, 6 months ago Report

Thanks.....I am also not believe in all the rule of Islam at all. I don't believe in any god BUT I never say, Christians are devil ar Muslims are devil. Because I believe then you will also call me as a devil. Really I?? No, we are living in an era where all are in a village, global village.

So we can't say that.

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safi

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jmilligan's Avatar
jmilligan | 2 years, 6 months ago
3
I would agree with those who have posted before, that they do have the civil right to wear these shirts. And it may seem like a nasty piece of hate speech but lets take a closer look at the situation it is refering to. While maybe not the view of all Muslims, many believe, as their Imam's (or preachers) have declared, that by killing an infidel they are assured a place in heaven. The question then comes to, "what is an infidel"? Technically speaking an infidel is anyone who does not believe in the faith of Islam. From this perspective it is easy to see how someone could declare Islam of the Devil.

As a Christian I am guaranteed a place in heaven because of the Sacrifice that Jesus Christ has made for me. Because I am guaranteed that place I am told to love those around me, Muslims, Jews, fellow believes, non-believers... It is hard not to have strong feelings about a religion that has commanded many of its follower to kill me.

Now I am not saying that all Muslims feel this calling or are commanded in this way. It is still a troubling place for me to watch as all of these people are decieved into believing in their profets. There is only one God and that is the God of the Bible. Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the father execpt through me." "I tell you the truth, anyone who sneaks over the wall of a sheepfold, rather than going through the gate, must surely be a thief and a robber! ... I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep." (John 14:6 & 10:1,7)

Hell is real and the devil is very very tricky. He will find anyway he can to lead people astray of the one true Lord. Islam is one of the devil's many tricks as are many or our worldly and selfish desires. Don't be decieved by false profits. Talk to someone at your local church and as about the only absolute truth in this chaotic world.
source(s):
NIV Bible

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albanian's Avatar
albanian | 2 years, 6 months ago Report

This does not address the actual question but is instead a religious rant.

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jmilligan | 2 years, 6 months ago Report

I appologize if it does seem like rant, I did not mean it that way. I merely ment to inform people on a Christian perspective on why these shirts have any relevance and inform those who may not know about the Good News in Jesus. I appologize Albanian.

rising falls's Avatar
rising falls | 2 years, 6 months ago Report

This is why I thank the founders for the separation of Church and State. Ever heard of the Spanish Inquisition? This argument is as relevant as me saying that horses are actually evil water monsters that want to drown me.

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