Is televangelist Pat Robertson truly insane at this point? Should he be committed?
"Haitians were originally "under the heel of the French. You know, Napoleon the third, or whatever. And they got together and swore a pact to the devil," said the 80-year-old former presidential candidate"
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iX3INESyeqiM9yeUrTNCtT-SYWxg
also note, below is a geological paper warning of the earthquake risk to Haiti a couple of years ago.
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/premium/0286/0286-29038301.html
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M$16 Answers
"The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians."
This is a direct quote from Robertson, mindblowingly attached to a 1992 Fundraising letter
"If the widespread practice of homosexuality will bring about the destruction of your nation, if it will bring about terrorist bombs, if it'll bring about earthquakes, tornadoes and possibly a meteor, it isn't necessarily something we ought to open our arms to. "
Aug 6 1998 The 700 Club
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/revpat.htm
So now the difficult question ". . . should he be committed?" Not yet, I think committing someone is a last resort that we should do only if someone is a direct danger to self and others. I personally believe that if we committed everyone who was not sane we would have massive amounts of people being held needlessly.
On a side note Faldwell/Robertson, or Bin Ladin?
http://www.funnystrange.com/quiz/
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M$It's all noise and ramblings of a confused man, but not insane and as much as most people would like the noise to go away, we can't lock him up.
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M$
I do sometimes wonder if crooked televangelists start as con-men, knowing that it is not true, then somewhere along the line they start beliving the lie. . .
You pointed out that his most ridiculous statements came in a fund raising letter which would point to a sane yet self serving individual. So I'll stick with my "not right".
I believe he believes his statements, which would point more to insane though. I grew in the range of his first television tower and I watched the station because they had cartoons in the afternoon and I remember watching the clock with vengeance so as not to not have to catch any of his show. I did not then, now, or ever will believe anything Pat Roberson has said has anything to do with earthly, divine, or even a parallel universe reality.
Isn't "not right" just a polite way of saying "insane"?
Do you believe his statements such as the one you listed have grounds in reality?
Not even a parallel universe? I've seen and read about some pretty ghastly parallel universes in sci-fi where he would fit in nicely.
However, the main problem with Robertson's statement is that he was voicing myths and/or unprovable folklore regarding the Haitians making a pact with the devil.
Anyway, the point is that what he said was very hurtful and insensitive, to say the least. It's almost like saying to a person laying in bed having extreme pain from cancer that he caused his own problems. I'm sure that is just what he needs to hear at that moment.
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M$
My knowledge comes mainly firsthand of working on North Unit at a nursing home in Upstate New York. This North unit was full of residents(patients) who had Alzheimer's or another types of dementia. While I worked on that unit I seen many old people who thought they were teenagers, children who had lost their parents, children who had been kidnapped and been held against their will. These people honestly believed they were who they thought they were. These were people from all walks of life, including tax collectors, farmers, nurses, housewives and of course clergy members.
It was easier for us as staff members to allow these folks to believe who they thought they were. When Joe thought he was president and held state of the union addresses we went with it, but snickered. It was priceless when he was campaigning and knocking on doors around the unit asking people to vote for him. But I digress here...lol I so miss that unit.
Anyways if it is a form of Dementia Pat Robertson has then perhaps rather than committing him, perhaps his spokepeople should limit his public appearances or his family could have him relocated to a north unit where ever he lives.
my own brain
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M$
That occurred to me as well because of his age; but, his remarks fit too well with the sort of stuff he's been saying all his life so I rather doubt it.
Alzheimer's is a tragic, common form of insanity, but it is still a type of insanity. You're right it needs different treatment, not that much can be done, than some other kinds.
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M$
I honestly think if Pat told his flock to do something in the name of God, they'd do it. And I'm not talking about a buck in the collection plate. This is so volatile and dangerous, I absolutely think someone needs to have the power to properly evaluate him for insanity and put him someplace safe, before a hideous tragedy strikes via his hand.
Me and the radio
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M$
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M$
I am sure that if you searched hard enough, you would find liberals and others along the political and other spectra, who espouse similar viewpoints on Haiti, among other subjects.
As such, it is best to simply be aware of other opinions, nonsensical or not, and, hopefully, accept or reject those opinions, and respond (or not) in an intelligent manner. Unfortunately, for most people, intelligence is not an issue.
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M$Personally I use the non-medical term 'loony' for Roberston and people like him, but being loony ain't a crime.
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M$
Well, I guess you have a point that he is not likely to go amok with a machete or something. Still, his words could indirectly lead to people dying. He seems a lot worse than those people being held indefinitely on the suspicion that they might someday commit a sex crime if released.
In the US a person may be held indefinitely as a sexual predator only after they have been convicted of a crime, and when it is shown that they are likely to repeat the offense.
In the US saying loony things is not a crime. We are experimenting with the idea of tolerating almost all speech.
No, it turns out that there are people committed not because they have committed sex crimes (even minor ones) and may repeat but also other unrelated crimes and are suspected of sex crime tendencies. It is being challenged in a Supreme Court case right now; it was flying under everyone's screens and has never been debated.
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M$
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M$
It's not for people to judge or state what God's purpose is in anything. It's not for anyone to say "this is God's judgement for xxx." That's God's business.
For people, judging someone to be insane because of saying something offensive is skating on thin ice. How about Al Sharpton and his comments? Jesse Jackson? Rush Limbaugh? Don Imus? Howard Stern? The cast of the View? That's a lot of rooms in the nearest mental hospital.
For those who make inappropriate comments, the best response is to tell yourself "I'm glad I'm not him/her." And forgive. People who forgive on a regular basis live longer.
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M$
It's not just some slip of the tongue to make up a story about people making a pact with the devil and presenting it as news commentary. It wasn't an attempt at humor, or a rhetorical exaggeration either. His getting the wrong Napoleon was just a mistake or ignorance such as those other folks do; but, the bit about the pact with the devil is just beyond normal. Combining it with such extreme insensitivity to a massive human tragedy is real sickness.
The fact that we are contemplating the correctness of involuntary commitment based on no more than what would have once passed for free speech says a lot about where people's heads are at concerning first amendment rights.
Involuntary commitment based on the content of someone's speech is such a violation of that individual's rights that it leaves me speechless, which is probably a good thing, since I might be next.
Beware. Don't make a comment the crowd disagrees with, you could be subject to involuntary commitment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ezoOtsu7Dg
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M$
The result of our discussion, which you must note is not legally binding anywhere or anyway, could well be to recommend that he seek professional help. Nobody has suggested that yet though, unless you count the opinion that he be treated for Alzheimers.
Again, your statements are much more concerning than his, as you are the one suggesting we should consider involuntary commitment based on, as it turns out, your opinion, which you are not qualified to form, not being an expert or having first hand knowledge . I am far more comfortable with allowing him freedom of speech and due process than I am allowing you to make judgments "from afar" on his sanity or fitness for commitment. You are the bigger danger, in my opinion. Nothing personal, I just respect the the constitution and due process that much more than than your opinions.
One of the first rights of someone who is going to an involuntary commitment trial (not a Mahalo lynch mob) is a first hand examination by a professional. You are suggesting that we discuss amongst ourselves whether we should bypass normal prodceedure and just decide to involuntary commit Robertson., violating those rights, because we don't agree with some things he said. Fortunately for the rest of the country, we still operate under law and not under what the mob thinks. I am much more comfortable with allowing Robertson his constitutional right of free speech and his right to a first hand examination by a professional than I am with politically correct mobs determining that some speech is automatic grounds for involuntary commitment. I find that sentiment much more troublesome than his, for which I would no doubt also be in danger of incarceration, were the type of mob rule you suggest actually in place. Thank God for freedoms established by people who had good sense. The intolerance and lack of diversity is almost comical, demanding that Robertson think and speak only that which falls within a realm of approval. Who's next? Do not dare to dissent, you will be punished.
There is a big difference between dissent and minority opinions and being insane. For example, someone could argue that no one should help the Haitians because they tortured the French soldiers to death that they captured during their war. That would be weird and minority, but not insane. But believing a fantasy about the Haitians making a pact with the devil is actually insane. Also, it can be a dangerous sort of insanity when you lose empathy and feel it's right when large numbers of people are dying.
That's all very well. But consider, surely some people are crazy enough to commit. If you can't tell by their speech, does it have to be their actions? If so, is it right to wait until they do something violent? There really are laws and rules that go into this stuff a lot more than we would want to here in a general chat about events of the day. I doubt myself if Robertson, despicable as he is, is insane in a way that would be committed. But I think he's gone close enough to make it a fair question.
I Guess Pat Robertson may think I am the anti Christ because I am a survivor of multiple lightning strikes. Let him believe as he wishes.. I have no problems with Extremist beliefs, as long as they are not hurting or harming people.. and Denying Aid, and relief to those who are hurting and in serious trouble.. is definately not what G-d in the Bible teaches us to do.. But, if he wants to take the path to do nothing that is his choice, as we all were given free will to choose to do, or not to do.. and I think he is wrong, that is my opinions and feelings... And I can not possibly understand.. anyone who wants to blame all Natural disasters as being G-d hatin' on us all the time for something.. My Turn to sound far out for a moment:
That quake is horrible now but it maybe a blessing in desquise.. This quake may be what is needed to force the world to pull together and actually give Haiti as a country the serious rebirth, and uplifting it has been crying out for for years. This may in the end and could be their biggest blessing in disguise.. But, G-d.. Expects people to pull together and help eachother, and Do for themselves.. That is what I believe, and what I was taught. Bad things happen to force us to pull together, and appreciate eachother, build new bonds, connections, and to make things overall better for ourselves, and our community.
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M$
But I think that at least the majority of outrageous statements that Robertson makes are intentional and calculated. At least to some degree, he believes in a vengeful, Old Testament God, one that coincidentally believes everything that Robertson himself does. He's not mis-speaking when he makes these pronouncements, he believes that he's speaking for God.
But even more important, when Robertson makes these ridiculous comments, he gets attention. 90% of the time, Robertson is ignored by all but his faithful flock of followers. Say something outrageous, and he's being talked about on every talk show, radio broadcast, and blog. He's a narcissist, and craves being the center of attention. And like a child, it doesn't matter whether the attention is positive or negative. The only thing that counts is that he's got all of us talking about him.
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M$
Wow I never new he said all that. I don't really pay attention to him. He needs to think before he speaks. He is way over the edge. Well he's old and soon he will be happy meeting his god.
I'm not at all convinced he will be meeting his god. How does he know so much about the devil's business dealings two hundred years ago? He wasn't around then. The Haitian rebels aren't alive now. He must be buddies with the devil to know all that stuff and will probably be off to stay with him when he goes.
I knew that he had said some really mind blowing things, but these two quotes really knocked my socks off.