2 years, 8 months ago
In modern warfare is air to air engagement, a factor?
Has modern warfare in the air strategy eliminate the need for air to air engagement?
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M$2 Answers
Israeli F-16I during a Red Flag exercise in the US.
http://www.air-attack.com/MIL/f16/f16i_redflag_20090721.JPG
Yes, air to air engagement is a very important factor in modern warfare despite today´s developments on stealth technologies, Beyond Visual Range (BVR) capabilities or advance missiles systems.
There was a time during the Vietnam era, when the USAF brought the idea that future air combat will be fought only with missiles. Therefore, they went to war and adopted this aerial doctrine with the newly designed F-4 Phantom fighter bomber carrying only missiles and without a machine gun. Big mistake.
The newly adopted Sidewinder and Sparrow missiles from first generation were tricky to handle and performed poorly, leaving many times the F-4 crews completely harmless with useless missiles and no machine gun to use during close combat against North Vietnamese pilots. The result, an embarrassing dogfight victory ratio of just 2:1 or even 1:1 leveling the odds in favor of the North Vietnamese. They promised not to make that mistake ever again. Future air combat fighters were armed with a machine gun there on.
Today, the ideal scenario will be more or less the same USA experienced during the 2nd Gulf War, the Invasion of Irak in 2003. Where air superiority was achieved almost immediately. With the supremacy over the skies the Army on the ground experienced an unparalleled display of asymmetric deployment, never before experienced by an American Army. One big part of that freedom to deploy whole divisions and changing tactics on the move was possible because the air was absolutely theirs.
With Iran, the Heyl Ha'Avir (Israel Air Force) will not be able to enjoy the same luxuries the American experienced during the Irak Invasion, but will certainly get a leading edge in preparation, experience and flying combat time over the IRIAF (Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force). On top of that, Israeli material will be top of the line rivaling with that of most European nations and in some cases, even surpassing the quality of the US Air Force material.
Israel´s Air Force is regarded as the best in the world. Their training has a high standard, and they have a large fleet of very modern aircraft, many of them specifically tailored to meet specific Israeli requirements. Their support and infrastructure are also extremely good. They can (and most probably will) field more number of combat aircraft than Iran. Here is a brief account of some of the Heyl Ha'Avir and Iran Air Force aircraft in inventory to get a clear idea of what kind of aerial power we are talking about...
Heyl Ha'Avir order of Battle:
* Combat Warplanes: 541
(A-4N Skyhawk, F-16A/B, F-16C/D, F-16I, F-15A/B, F-15C, F-15D, F-15I)
* Transport Warplanes: 66
(C-130E/H, KC-130H, 707-320)
* Military Helicopters: 184
(CH-53 Stallion, UH-60A Black Hawk, S-70A-55 Black Hawk, Eurocopter AS.565, AH-64A Apache, AH-64D Longbow, AH-1E Cobra, AH-1F/S Super Cobra)
Iran Air Force order of Battle:
* Combat Warplanes: 273
(Shafaq, Saegheh, Azarakhsh, F-6, F-7M, Mirage F-1, Su-25K, Su-24MK, Mig-29A, F-4D/E Phantom II, F-5E/F Tiger II, F-14A Tomcat)
* Transport Warplanes: 80
(727, 707, 747, 707F, 747F, IL-76)
* Military Helicopters: 34
(CH-47C, AB-206, Bell 214C)
The abysmal difference on quantity and quality in favor of the Israelis is appalling. On top of that, it is worth noting that the Heyl Ha'Avir has the best record in the history of aerial combat with at least 687 enemy airplanes shot down in aerial dogfights since the birth of the nation in 1948 and only 23 Israeli planes have been shot down in aerial fight by enemy planes ever since. This is an amazing dogfight victory ratio of 30:1 between Israel and its Arab neighbors, testament of the incredible capacity and expertise of the Israeli pilots throughout history. Colonel Giora Epstein holds the world record for more jet aircraft shot down with 17 planes destroyed during the age of jet.
For their pilot’s expertise and for the quality of their material we can clearly say today Israel has the capacity to deal with everything the IRAF can field against them in an air to air engagement, there is absolutely no question about it.
http://www.cavok-aviation-photos.net/Israel/F16A_243.jpg
Yes, air to air engagement is a very important factor in modern warfare despite today´s developments on stealth technologies, Beyond Visual Range (BVR) capabilities or advance missiles systems.
There was a time during the Vietnam era, when the USAF brought the idea that future air combat will be fought only with missiles. Therefore, they went to war and adopted this aerial doctrine with the newly designed F-4 Phantom fighter bomber carrying only missiles and without a machine gun. Big mistake.
The newly adopted Sidewinder and Sparrow missiles from first generation were tricky to handle and performed poorly, leaving many times the F-4 crews completely harmless with useless missiles and no machine gun to use during close combat against North Vietnamese pilots. The result, an embarrassing dogfight victory ratio of just 2:1 or even 1:1 leveling the odds in favor of the North Vietnamese. They promised not to make that mistake ever again. Future air combat fighters were armed with a machine gun there on.
Today, the ideal scenario will be more or less the same USA experienced during the 2nd Gulf War, the Invasion of Irak in 2003. Where air superiority was achieved almost immediately. With the supremacy over the skies the Army on the ground experienced an unparalleled display of asymmetric deployment, never before experienced by an American Army. One big part of that freedom to deploy whole divisions and changing tactics on the move was possible because the air was absolutely theirs.
With Iran, the Heyl Ha'Avir (Israel Air Force) will not be able to enjoy the same luxuries the American experienced during the Irak Invasion, but will certainly get a leading edge in preparation, experience and flying combat time over the IRIAF (Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force). On top of that, Israeli material will be top of the line rivaling with that of most European nations and in some cases, even surpassing the quality of the US Air Force material.
Israel´s Air Force is regarded as the best in the world. Their training has a high standard, and they have a large fleet of very modern aircraft, many of them specifically tailored to meet specific Israeli requirements. Their support and infrastructure are also extremely good. They can (and most probably will) field more number of combat aircraft than Iran. Here is a brief account of some of the Heyl Ha'Avir and Iran Air Force aircraft in inventory to get a clear idea of what kind of aerial power we are talking about...
Heyl Ha'Avir order of Battle:
* Combat Warplanes: 541
(A-4N Skyhawk, F-16A/B, F-16C/D, F-16I, F-15A/B, F-15C, F-15D, F-15I)
* Transport Warplanes: 66
(C-130E/H, KC-130H, 707-320)
* Military Helicopters: 184
(CH-53 Stallion, UH-60A Black Hawk, S-70A-55 Black Hawk, Eurocopter AS.565, AH-64A Apache, AH-64D Longbow, AH-1E Cobra, AH-1F/S Super Cobra)
Iran Air Force order of Battle:
* Combat Warplanes: 273
(Shafaq, Saegheh, Azarakhsh, F-6, F-7M, Mirage F-1, Su-25K, Su-24MK, Mig-29A, F-4D/E Phantom II, F-5E/F Tiger II, F-14A Tomcat)
* Transport Warplanes: 80
(727, 707, 747, 707F, 747F, IL-76)
* Military Helicopters: 34
(CH-47C, AB-206, Bell 214C)
The abysmal difference on quantity and quality in favor of the Israelis is appalling. On top of that, it is worth noting that the Heyl Ha'Avir has the best record in the history of aerial combat with at least 687 enemy airplanes shot down in aerial dogfights since the birth of the nation in 1948 and only 23 Israeli planes have been shot down in aerial fight by enemy planes ever since. This is an amazing dogfight victory ratio of 30:1 between Israel and its Arab neighbors, testament of the incredible capacity and expertise of the Israeli pilots throughout history. Colonel Giora Epstein holds the world record for more jet aircraft shot down with 17 planes destroyed during the age of jet.
For their pilot’s expertise and for the quality of their material we can clearly say today Israel has the capacity to deal with everything the IRAF can field against them in an air to air engagement, there is absolutely no question about it.
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M$Report Abuse
It depends on who you're fighting. Its kind of hard for air to air when the other team doesn't have planes.
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M$
You think your confused. I have no idea, what your trying to prove, besides incompetence, to answer this question.
Are you talking about flag football?
I'm talking about tactical air combat.
Will air to air engagement be an issue, if the Israel and Iran conflict escalates?
Yeah, I was confused. You know... with all the air to air combat that goes on in flag football. Thats what I thought you were talking about.
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