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silverhammer 17
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1 year, 4 months ago

If there are 3 people in line at the ER and two of them smoke, should the non-smoker go first?

I mean if all other variables in this scenario were equal, the non-smoker is the only one not trying to slowly kill themselves so wouldn't it only make sense to try to save the one person who is actively trying to live the longest?

http://www.all4humor.com/images/files/Owned%20Smoker.jpg

Sorry a 6 hour wait in the ER was a bit excessive. Everything worked out and as strange as it may seem we did get in before the smokers (well most of them, the waiting room had like 20 people in it).
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unwirklich | 1 year, 4 months ago
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Hm, question is do you want to go down that road? There are many factors that could rate how much a person wishes to live other than smoking. Should a person who drinks (at all) be put behind one that doesn't? Should overweight people be bumped? Should underachievers who are not as successful too be put to the back of the line? When we start trying to decide who wants to live more than someone else we are putting far too much power in one persons hands and taking equality out of the equation. If two people arrive at the same exact time in the same exact condition the one that is checked in first is seen first, that's how it should be.

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bunnyphuphu | 1 year, 4 months ago Report

People also make stupid mistakes in their life. Would you put someone who attempted suicide previously, but have since learned from their mistake at the back of the line?

What stupid things did YOU do when you were young @silverhammer? eh?

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silverhammer | 1 year, 4 months ago Report

I deserve to win. To have my cake and eat it, lick the frosting bowl AND the spoon. So I have no idea what you are talking about. ;)

Admittedly I was very tired after six hours sitting next to walking ashtrays. The smell was unbearable and the lake of people standing outside in the rain creating a wonderful perfumed fog that wafted right into the emergency room (granted nurses were out there too) was about all I could take.

So I tried to create a philosophical discussion in the direction of something interesting and it only turned into a personal gripe. I guess my brain isn't that interesting that time of night after a long visit to the ER.

Go figure. :)

P.S. I'm allergic to smoke, it gives me bronchitis and a face mask filter thing doesn't seem to help. :( So my being there in the first place was just being exacerbated by other people's right to die within range of my lungs.

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garyallen's Avatar
garyallen | 1 year, 4 months ago
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I can appreciate the non-smoking attitude--I've lost many relatives, all of whom were either smokers or who had quit after decades of smoking, to what I'll agree are somewhat self-inflicted wounds. I worked in Drug & Alcohol Education at a huge state university, and we always did a unit on tobacco every semester.

Given all that, I have to say that being in the position I'm in (keep reading), it's almost impossible to take the question seriously when the photo doesn't really match the question--and especially since it came from all4humor.com, where in just trying to find your photo's origin, I see things like:

"Huge Fat Woman - Holy crap, that better be fake."
and
"Big Poop - I can't imagine what this guy had to eat!

You are are asking us to assume everything about THE INJURY OR ILLNESS for which the patient is being seen is equal. (Ability to pay for such services is not a reason to deny urgent care in The United States.) That's absolutely impossible to do. Every injury, illness and individual is different. But for kicks, I'll play along. I love a good debate.

I'm no stranger to hospitals. Sadly, I'm such a regular at one that I'm on a first-name basis with administrators there, and when I was there for routine physical therapy and I suddenly felt ill, I walked myself down the hall into the Emergency Department--twice.

So I'll be the gutsy one and I'll say NO, the non-smoker shouldn't get priority treatment.

Unless he or she arrived first. Smoking is an addiction, but it is not specifically defined as a disability under the Americans with Disabilities Act, a piece of legislation which I know well. It could be argued in court, though. In British Columbia, Canada, an arbitrator ruled it to be one:

"In a landmark ruling in British Columbia, a labor arbitrator has said employees addicted to nicotine are disabled, and entitled to the same rights as those with a physical or mental handicap.

"The case involved workers at an iron and zinc smelter who had argued that not allowing them to smoke on the job violated their rights.

"In the United States, nicotine addiction is not considered a disability under the federal Americans with Disabilities Act or under separate Washington state human-rights laws.

"But the British Columbia ruling questions whether smokers anywhere could argue that going hours without a cigarette can be so debilitating it should be considered a disability.

"We're certainly not promoting smoking in any way, shape or form anywhere," said Rod Audia, president of Local 480 of United Steelworkers of America in Trail, B.C., one of the unions that filed the lawsuit. "My concern is those people who are facing termination or loss of income because of their inability to kick the nicotine habit.""

If you want that hospital to be the focus of redefining "disability" and then potentially be the first one open to a lawsuit for discriminating against persons deemed to be disabled (in the eyes of The 20-year-old ADA or otherwise), don't expect the joint to stay open very long.

People can't be triaged on a variable such as smoking. Where does it stop?

Three people come in with, for argument's sake, the EXACT SAME INJURY. It doesn't matter the medical need is, other than to assume it's EXACTLY IDENTICAL Does the hospital medically treat , in order, the person who smokes three packs and has a 2-martini lunch every day and is a faithful spouse, then the person who smokes four packs and drinks a six-pack of beer each day and has a little somethin'-somethin' on the side, and then the person who smokes six packs and drinks a fifth of whiskey every day--all while having sex with multiple partners besides his or her spouse?

What if the smokiest, drunkest bed-hopper's ticket was #1?

I'm an advocate for the rights of Persons with Disabilities--it's what I do.

I was once brought by ambulance to a large hospital with what I believed could have been a potentially life-threatening closed-head traumatic brain injury. Instead of going into a trauma room, which is where I thought I would immediately (and eventually did) go, after my vitals were taken, I was told to sit in the waiting room. Prime evening time, and the place was jammed.

I was exhausted, dizzy and slightly nauseous, and I had a good headache all the way down to my neck. I'd already diagnosed it in my mind and I was terrified. After 45 minutes of getting in and out out of the wheelchair I'd been put in, walking in and out of the bathroom (maybe I had a lot of water that day--I don't know), I walked over to the desk, albeit with a great deal of dizziness, and I demanded the Stroke Team be paged--or I'd do it myself The second I picked up my cell phone, they sat me down, moved me into Trauma and a flurry of activity followed, with doctors and nurses everywhere--at least two Trauma doctors and 4 Trauma nurses performing a symphony of well-organized chaos in a room almost exactly like the one pictured. Needles, questions, hook up to all kinds of beeping things, basic function tests...

I suppose that if it turned out I wasn't right--if I wasn't sitting there having a stroke--no kidding...quite literally, my third of four (so far, and I'm 40, a non-smoker, slightly overweight but no high cholesterol)--I might not have been so upset. But I was a frequent flier there, and I even mentioned it. Someone should have checked it when I was sitting in the waiting room, in shock, with nobody accompanying me. A lot of people heard from me a couple of days after this happened, and I was discharged a week later, slightly less on my game but I'm 75% recovered. The fourth one, a year later (2 1/2 years ago), took a little more out of me.

Bottom line: Next time, speak up. Let them know you're not happy.

And keep speaking--diplomatically--until someone does something.

Ironically, I may have saved my own life--AFTER triage in an Emergency Room.

If you base it on if the competition for that ER bed is a smoker, you'll be ignored.

Some nurses, techs, and even doctors are smokers, too..
images:

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asianboy's Avatar
asianboy | 1 year, 4 months ago Report

Fantastic, thorough answer @garyallen!

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