I am looking for specific examples of socialist/communism policies that have failed in other countries.
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M$11 Answers
Basically communism has a pretty dismal economic track record. However trying to identify problems with specific policies is not that easy, because it was the whole approach of trying to run an economy by central planning that was the source of the problem. It was not that a specific policy here or there did not work, but that gradually the whole economy slipped further and further behind its potential.
Also you are going to run into problems of definition. What do you mean by communism and socialism? And what polciies do you consider socialist?
Some examples of the kinds of things you might be after...
- Problems of collective farming in China and the Soviet Union
- Problems of state ownership of various industries in the UK
- Problems of central planning systems in India
Even there, if you need evidence that the policy "did not work as expected", you have big difficulties. The policy might have turned out badly, but maybe it was pursued for a whole different set of reasons than the criteria by which we now judge it to have been a disaster. If Stalin's agenda was "get rid of a troublesome class of people" rather than "improve farm production", you can't say the policy didn't work out as intended. Perhaps in that case you can't even say that it was a socialist policy in any meaningful sense, maybe just the policy of a ruthless megalomaniac.
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M$1) an attempt to nation building, based on a notion that communism is an international movement, and - more importantly - trans-national ideology. As such, communist ideology was thought to be sufficient to get people over and beyond their national/ ethnic identities, and inherent (historical) conflicts, and have them substitute their Croatian, Serbian, etc, identity for the Yugoslavian one.
2) workers self-management and collective ownership of factories, which was a good idea that caught attention of much of (Western) intelligentsia of the time (the 60'a and 70's), as well as mainstream social economics & politics. It gained quite a support in Italy, for example, where a number of industrial units were bought off, or small business set up, that were build on Tito's model of collective ownership of property. The main reason this policy had failed is simply because the overall economy of former Yugoslavia was so badly mismanaged by then, that giving the formal ownership over to workers could not help it anymore.
3) an attempt to building an international alliance in the form of Non-Aligned Movement of which Yugoslavia was one of the principal founding members. The initiative failed largely because it was guided by a number of broad ideological concepts, rather than a set of clearly defined policies. Additionally, too little emphasis was given to great potential that there was to closer economic cooperation between these countries.
You're clearly not looking for a quickfix type of answer, so I'll leave it here, and come back later with some additional info & links.
experience
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M$Here is a single source which contains further references on failed socialist projects outlined in my initial response. Of particular interest are the following three essays:
Tito and the National Question
by Patrick Moore
Yugoslavia's Self-Management System at the Crossroads
by Zdenko Antic
Tito and Nonalignment
by Zdenko Antic
Let me know if you find these leads useful, because adding more links to similar (re)sources would make no sense, if this is not your line of enquiry.
http://files.osa.ceu.hu/holdings/300/8/3/text/84-2-66.shtml
This is not a great question although it is somewhat interesting. Policies fail in countries every day regardless of their political system. The number of factors involved can be huge and impossible to sort out. There are undoubtedly a huge number of policies that have failed that would be classed as "socialist/communist" (i.e. - run by the state for the collective good) , since all governments produce unsuccessful policies. I'm not sure if it would interest you if the buses didn't run well in a given country or if plans to enhance a gymnastics team didn't result in gold medals at the Olympics ... somehow I think you're looking for something a little more dramatic than that.
I've been a reference librarian at a university for 20 years .... my advice is to work a bit harder on your topic. It's not quite in research shape yet.
First-hand experience. A parent who worked in the system.
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M$it fails because 1. quality of care and erroneous care and triage occurs regularly. 2. cost is distributed to all citizens regardless of use and in the long run financially unsustainable by the body politic. further examples of the failure of such a system can be seen across the globe. we have a system that works fine. why because the system is profit driven which increases willing participation of practitioners and stimulates innovation. and another case in point they only treat cases that have a positive outcome no palliative care beyond pain management for the terminally ill. in the usa you have the option to get a 2nd opinion and try experimental procedures and medications where if you are in planed medical environment like the northern sissy french that have never won a war you get no option other than the one the government allows you to have. the system takes away you ability to choose what maybe best for you and is based on what they are willing to spend on you.
i will agree with one thing the dumb librarian said this topic needs to be more refined. as it is phrased it is asking more for an opinion not a factually based answer.
please if you are a reference librarian please read some of the books that are right there on the shelf by you.
source
I am a medical professional
Bravo!
1. Failure of Agrarian Collectivization.
2. Rampant and Widespread Poverty Due To the Collective Ownership Of Properties Thus Stifling And Hampering The Entrepreneurial Spirit.
3. Rampant and Widespread Corruption And Looting Of The State Purpose More So In The Exploitation Of The Countries Vast Natural Resources And Mineral Wealth.
If you look at the first point that of Agrarian Collectivization you begin to realize that the policy of Undugu and Ujamaa which was passed in Tanzania in 1967 was primarily put up to quote, “live and work together for the good of all" a very noble initiative by all means. Whereby the peasant populace who made up 90% of the countries population, was to be, herded to villages and to engage in some collective economic activity.
The Objective of this policy as was eloquently put out by Mwalimu Julius Nyerere himself was to slow the movement to towns, increase production, permit the introduction of new technology, increase peasant per capita income, reverse the trend towards greater inequality, provide better social services, encourage self-reliance, and reverse the trend towards centralization.
A decade later all those noble initiatives had fallen flat on the good doctors due to issues that involved the full implementation of the policy, in effect the Tanzanian leadership had grossly underestimated the complexity of the task that faced, they had failed to grasp the fact that by herding people into village communes and leaving the vast and fertile tracts of land to be run by largely unsupervised bureaucrats who saw the impracticality of the idea you have opened up a very huge door for them to enrich themselves at the expense of the masses.
So basically the genesis of the failure of communism in Tanzania can still be felt to date even after the country embraced the Breton Woods institution’s like the IMF and World Bank, calls for SAP(Structural Adjustment Programs) and liberalization. These can be seen in the lopsided distribution of wealth with over 90% of the countries wealth being held by less than 10% of the richest, while the remaining 90% of the population are forced to make do with a paltry 10% of the population.
Another telling example of this failure is the adamant refusal of Tanzania to integrate fully into one collective economic community and customs union with neighboring countries like Kenya and Uganda which embraced capitalism fully at the dawn of independence. Several factors can be cited here but the primary fear/factor is the fact that during the days of Ujamaa Tanzania had to educational system to write home about and hence while the neighboring countries acquired managerial and entrepreneurial expertise they lagged behind. These are but a slew of factors demonstrating the absolute failure of socialism/communism in the country of Tanzania, do check the links below for some scholarly citations on the failure of Ujamaa in Tanzania.
The Scholarly Citations For The Above Three Failures Of Socialism Are Listed Below Roughly In Order Of Their Appearance Above.
http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&ai...
http://www.jstor.org/pss/160361
http://www.cababstractsplus.org/abstracts/Abstract.aspx?AcNo=19796729577
http://www.eisa.org.za/WEP/tanoverview9.htm
http://econ.tu.ac.th/archan/somboon/on%20extra%20articles%20%20of%20economi...
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M$Journal article by Branko Milanovic; Challenge, Vol. 37, 1994.
The most damning evidence of the failed polices of communism is the breakup of the Soviet Union and the breakup of Yugoslavia. Under communism, there was no ability to forge a common destiny between the different ethnic groups. Other failed polices include;
Agriculture in the Soviet Union
"Under Stalin the government socialized agriculture and created a massive bureaucracy to administer policy. Stalin's campaign of forced collectivization, which began in 1929, confiscated the land, machinery, livestock, and grain stores of the peasantry. By 1937 the government had organized approximately 99 percent of the Soviet countryside into state-run collective farms. Under this grossly inefficient system, agricultural yields declined rather than increased. The situation persisted into the 1980s, when Soviet farmers averaged about 10 percent of the output of their counterparts in the United States."
http://www.country-studies.com/russia/agriculture.html
Education in China
"We identify the returns to schooling in urban China by exploiting individual-level variation in educational attainment caused by exogenous city-wide disruptions to education during the Cultural Revolution from 1966 to 1976. In city-cohorts where disruptions were greater, children’s educational attainment became less correlated with that of their fathers and more influenced by whether fathers held administrative positions. Analyzing data from the China Urban Labor Survey (CULS) conducted in 5 large cities in 2001, we estimate the returns to college to be 35 percent using instrumental variables, which is significantly lower than the OLS estimate of 42 percent. In contrast, our IV estimates of the returns to high school average 28 percent, higher than the OLS estimate of 21 percent. The IV and OLS estimates of the mean return to a year of schooling are 7.6 and 8.3 percent. These results are consistent with the selection of high-ability students into higher education through China’s college entrance exam system. They are robust to possible biases caused by migration or alternative pathways through which the Cultural Revolution could have affected adult productivity."
http://ipc.umich.edu/edts/pdfs/A%20Park%20cultural%20revolution%204.07.pdf
http://www.country-studies.com/russia/agriculture.html
http://ipc.umich.edu/edts/pdfs/A%20Park%20cultural%20revolution%204.07.pdf
Why Have Communist Federations Collapsed
Journal article by Branko Milanovic; Challenge, Vol. 37, 1994.
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M$I think for $75 he is looking for original text, not answers that were copied off a website.
"Any example(s) will need to be backed up with citations to original sources"
I think that he is looking for links to original studies like that of Professors Giles, Park and Wang, and perhaps articles like that written by Milanovic. I think that is why he did not mark my answer as unhelpful. I hadn't even noticed that he was offering $75 MD. Thanks for pointing that out.
No problem. You still have time to revise your answer and post it as a comment. THAT is why I was pointing it out--to give you the opportunity to fix your error rather then lose out.
Discovery channels on tv :-)
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M$1. POLAND
Program: Revitalization
Poland has roots in communism back to the 1800’s. However, the official Communist Party of Poland was not established until 1918 and it was immediately weakened by rising unemployment and economic dishevelment. Stalin attempted to revitalize the party but his efforts were also defeated by unemployment and economic difficulties, as well the rise of the Polish United Workers' Party.
In July 1980, “workers, intellectuals and clergy found common cause when…Edward Gierek (the 4th First Secretary of the Polish United Workers' Party) raised retail prices to correct his government’s budgetary imbalance” (Service 427). This effort along with Gierek’s plan of “Solidarity”, a project aimed to establish a trade union free of communist control, were among the first of a long line of anti-communist actions by the Polish United Workers’ Party. Trade agreements with other communist countries became ill-willed and project Solidarity flourished.
On June 4, 1989, the communist government was officially “trounced in the election…as Solidarity won 160 out of 161 available seats in the Senate” (Service 430). The new cabinet appointed Leszek Balcerowicz to introduce and establish capitalism.
Text Reference: Comrades! A History of World Communism by Robert Service http://www.amazon.com/Comrades-History-Communism-Robert-Service/dp/067402530X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1236724699&sr=8-2
Online References:
- http://tinyurl.com/b592bc (goes to Google Books – Polish Perspectives on Communism: An Anthology)
- http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1924/07_03.htm (a speech by Stalin to The Communist Party of Poland)
The dates that I have provided are from memory and are not from the sources I’ve listed. I would suggest double-checking them.
2. CALIFORNIA
Program: Utopian Colonies
California exhibited an interesting take on communism in the late 1800’s, involving what have been dubbed “utopian colonies” comprised of “a group of people who are attempting to establish a new social pattern based upon a vision of the ideal society and who have withdrawn themselves from the community at large to embody that vision in experimental form” (Hine 5). In more contemporary times, these colonies would be similar to communes. All the colonies possessed communal holdings, which could be either socialistic or more loosely “cooperative”.
The utopian colonies met their downfall not in poor organization, unemployment or economic distress. Instead, they were crushed by California’s exponential population growth rate. It was impossible for them to remain isolated and prevent outside influence.
It’s also interesting to note that while California colonies failed, utopian colonies in other locations flourished.
Text Reference: California Utopian Colonies by Robert V. Hine http://www.amazon.com/Californias-Utopian-Colonies-Robert-Hine/dp/B000NSJD7K/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1236726512&sr=8-1
Online References:
- http://www.utoronto.ca/utopia/
- http://www.utopiaandutopianism.com/
3. MALAYSIA
Policy: This example primarily addresses an attempted communist revolution, and its main source of defeat was found in British anti-communist policies. I think it's an interesting twist on your question, but if it can't be used for your research I would be happy to unearth a couple others that meet your guidelines more rigidly. =)
From 1948 to 1960, Malaysia underwent the “Malayan Emergency”, a guerilla war waged by the Malayan National Liberation Army (under the Malayan Communist Party) to claim independence from Britain.
In 1949, British Lt General Sir Harold Briggs began an effort to interfere with Malaysian Communist recruitment after realizing that “one of the major sources of recruitment for the communists was the large numbers of vagrant Chinese” (“The Malayan Emergency”). He worked to resettle the Chinese in new villages that were guarded by police, effectively cutting off the communists from supplies. He also introduced the War Executive Committees, which improved cooperation between civil, police, and military.
Faced with this opposition, the Malaysian communists lost their foothold and were unable to recover.
Online References:
http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/wars_malaya.html (“The Malayan Emergency”)
http://tinyurl.com/dcx8ju (goes to Google Timeline)
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M$The fall of Communism in Eastern Europe in 1989 also put an end to one-party rule in Yugoslavia.
Reason and Why?
The country entered a period of political pluralisation. In January 1990, Yugoslavia’s League of Communists (LCY) crumbled when the Slovenes and Croats walked out of the fourteenth extraordinary LCY congress. The rivalries between the various republican leaderships -- particularly between the ‘centralists’ of Serbia and the ‘confederalists’ of Croatia and Slovenia -- surfaced with a vengeance. Slovenia and Croatia favoured reforms, while the Serbian regime opposed party pluralism and the introduction of a market economy. The conflicts occurred after a long period of growing internal division within the LC. Republican party leaders were concerned primarily with protecting the economic interests of their own republics in times of economic crisis. By late 1987, they had started seeking allies outside Yugoslavia’s League of Communists, but within their respective republics. In some republics, relations with the nationalist opposition improved and were often better than they were with sister branches of the League of Communists in other republics. Slobodan Milosevic was not the only one to find common ground with the nationalist intelligentsia. A very similar rapprochement occurred between Communist officials and nationalists in Croatia and Slovenia not much later.
For details and citation refer http://srebrenica.brightside.nl/srebrenica/toc/p8_c05_s001_b01.html
About the above site:
In November 1996, the Netherlands Institute for War Documentation (NIOD) was instructed by the Dutch Government to carry out a study of 'the events prior to, during and after the fall of Srebrenica'. For the purposes of this independent historical analytical research, the Government undertook to do everything in its power to grant the NIOD researchers access to the source material at its disposal. On 10 April 2002, this report was made public with the presentation of the first copy to the Minister of Education, Culture and Science, Loek Hermans, as representative of the Government.
I am not sure if this qualifies your criteria, If it does--please comment I will give the other two examples in comment.Any more clarification--- please ask :)
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M$I think for $75 he is looking for original text, not copy-and-paste answers.
What you said is right, so only I stopped with first failure and said I am not sure this meets your criteria.
Again, I was pointing it out to give you the opportunity to fix your error rather then lose out.
@darcy If he clarifies the question, then I can give my thoughts. I can't edit my answer now.
As I am living in India I can tell several policies such as
a)How village-level panchayats failed and why the government not able to implement it.
b)Kashmir government policy failure
c)How the central government lost its way in Uttar Pradesh to BSP
d)Why the British rule failed according to an Indian point of view.
I can give the details for the above points from my personal experience and what I heard and read in newspaper.
I am not sure-- this is what he is looking for
If it helps fine with me :)
lecture was written in August 1995. It is clear after the passage of time that some sections would be written differently today. However, I have elected to keep the original text here as written with only minor editing: interested readers should pursue newer information and interpretations in their libraries.
This lecture discusses four explanations. Many of the key events in those explanations are interrelated, and it makes some sense to treat them as four stages in a lengthy process.
Briefly, these four explanations are:
1. Collapse due to economic failure: The Revolutions of 1989 and the general unrest which preceded them during the 1980s have been interpreted as outgrowths of the economic failure of Communism. During the 1970s, the Eastern European Communist states pursued high-risk development strategies that relied on foreign loans to pay for construction of modernized economies. When oil prices rose in 1973 and 1979 and slowed the world economy, the Communist Bloc states could no longer make payments on their debts, and this led to a loss of credit and internal economic problems from which they never recovered.
2. Collapse due to the arms race: The end of Soviet Communism has also been explained as a result of an economic crisis in which American military pressure and the costs of the arms race were the most important causes. Under Presidents Carter, Reagan and Bush the United States forced the Soviets to spend so much money on high-tech weapons that the Communist economy was bankrupted when too many resources had to be diverted away from productive investments and consumer needs.
3. Collapse due to "perestroika" in the Soviet Union: Another explanation points to the Soviet Union and emphasizes the "perestroika" politics of Mikhail Gorbachev, without which revolutionary change in Eastern Europe would have remained impossible. Gorbachev did two things: he sanctioned an unprecedented degree of change in the Communist world and he made it clear that the Brezhnev Doctrine of 1968 was no longer in force. Once it was clear that the Soviet Union would no longer intervene in the affairs of its neighbors, Eastern Europeans were able to address their own local needs in their own way.
4. Collapse due to the rise of alternatives to Communism: An approach that looks for explanations within Eastern Europe, rather than from the outside, argues that economic failure and the loss of Russian Communist pressure still do not explain the specific events and outcomes of the East European and Balkan Revolutions of 1989. The entrenched Communist leadership might have retained power on their own, except for the growth of alternatives to which the various nations could turn to redefine their societies. Because this view uncovers very different developments in the various states, therefore it also explains why the revolutions had such very different outcomes in various parts of the Bloc. In Poland and Czechoslovakia, for example, alternatives included the so-called "civil society" movement and created local leaders like Poland's Lech Walesa and Czechoslovakia's Vaclav Havel, who stood up to authoritarian rule in the late '70s and early '80s to demand political pluralism and individual freedom. At the same time, states like the former Yugoslav republics followed a contrasting path in which the most successful alternatives involved nationalist figures who reintroduced familiar Balkan political themes.
More here:
http://staff.lib.msu.edu/sowards/balkan/lect24.htm
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The Failure of Communist Ideology in Malaysia
Author : Major Jamaluddin Jambi
Thesis : The Government of Malaysia exploited the communists' own ideology and theories to successfully counter the potential for an insurgency.
INTRODUCTION
The signing of the peace accord by the government of Malaysia and Thailand with the Communist Party of Malaya (CPM) on December 2 , 1989, put to rest a major threat to Malaysia faced since the end of World War II. However, it may be appropriate to point out that the threat is still alive since the communists have not renounced their ideology, nor their struggle. It is possible that they are seeking a Peredeska or a breathing space. This happened after the end of Malayan emergency in 1960. Their decision to sign the peace accord with the government of Malaysia must have been influenced by the setbacks they faced for a number of years prior to the event. The success or failure of the agreement can be gauged by two measures: first, the response of ex CPM members to the rehabilitation process; and second, how co- operative the ex CPM members are in helping to clear bobby traps in their former strongholds. In any case, from the present situation in Malaysia and the general decline of the communist system and influence globally, it is almost certain that in the near and mid- term, the threat from CPM will be diminished greatly. The threat from North Kalimantan Communist Party (NKCP) in Sarawak is even less. After signing the agreement with the government on October 17 , 1990, many ex- NKCP members were assimilated into society, given jobs and other forms of employment opportunities.
Although the communist threat appears low at present, it is not totally dead. To ensure that there is no revival, the government of Malaysia is exploiting the communist' own ideology and theories to successfully counter a potential insurgency.
More here:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1997/Jambi.htm
______________________________________________________________
The Failure of Communism in Eastern Europe
Communism in the Eastern Europe was a tragedy. It did do well in the Eastern Europe for quite a while; however, it doomed to failure. Communism was condemned due to lack of support from other nations, condemned due to the lack of efficient solution to the economical failure, and condemned due to the reformation of Gorbachev. Communism in Eastern Europe was only a theory that did not work in reality.
Originally, Karl Marx invented the theory of Communism. According to the Columbia Encyclopedia, Communism is applied to the movement that aims to overthrow the capitalist order by revolutionary means and to establish a classless society in which all goods will be socially owned. Marx's idea of communism was to create a state that was ruled by workers. Marx thought that under the Tsar, the government would eventually spoil the workers, and revolution would take place soon or later. This would lead to the birth of Communism. Ideally, the society provided equal sharing of work, according to ability, and all benefits, according to need. Coercive government would be unnecessary and therefore the society was ruled without ruler. The private property was abolished. However, Lenin and Stalin
Violent revolutions, formed by the Anti-Communist, occurred occasionally. With the introduction of five years plan by Stalin, and the broke out of WWII, it led to the major problem of food shortage. He banned the freedom of speech as the issues of mass arrests, the truth about the purges and the labor camps were not allow to be discussed in the media. Khrushchev, who succeeded Stalin after his death in 1953, was the Communist leader at that time. In order to protect the East Germany communist government, Stalin used armed forces to put down the revolts. This serves the purpose of Stalin's to degrade the intellectual and cultural life of the Russians. Lenin, for example, obtained his power through the Civil Wars between Reds and the Whites.
In 1956, the Poland revolution occurred. As a result, this led to severe famine in Russia. Criticism of government officials was permitted to made in public and allowed the media to information citizens with news and others. Living on the little wages, the agricultural products that were produced by the peasants were all confiscated by the government as taxes.
From the beginning to end, communism was never a legal action; it was illegitimated. They controlled the freedom of politic, social, culture, and economic. As the economic situation worsened, so did the people's support for the communism.
From here:
http://www.megaessays.com/viewpaper/86270.html
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The Failure of Communism
An analysis of the main factors contributing to the fall of communism and the power of the Soviet Union.
Written in 2007; 15 sources;
Paper Summary:
This paper discusses the reasons for the failure of communism and the demise of the power of the Soviet Union. The paper describes some of the theories that have emerged regarding the Soviet Union's failure, including internal and external tensions, economic issues and overemphasis on bureaucratic procedures. It also discusses the Soviet Union's neglect of culture and nationalistic interests and the natural diversity of the different regions.
"It should be remembered that communism was an ideology that was enforced through a strict and often tyrannical application of doctrine. Coupled with this is the fact that the acceptance of communism in many areas of the Soviet system was weak from the beginning. "In the countries subjected to Soviet domination after 1945 indigenous communism was generally weak and revolution was enforced from above with Soviet assistance." (Young, 1996, p. 235) This is a factor which is possibly not always fully recognized by those viewing the fall of communism from the outside. In other words, there was a resentment in many societies and countries within the Soviet Union to the way that communism in essence usurped their traditions and societal norms. The communist governments "...began to introduce Stalinist-type reforms in the economy: breaking up the old aristocratic estates and sharing them out between landless laborers and smallholders, nationalizing important industrial and mining concerns..." (Young, 1996, p. 235)"
From here:
http://www.academon.com/lib/paper/96802.html
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Communism in Practice: Disaster after Disaster
Communism's failures in practice: Communism's main failure in practice comes from the failure of a centralized economy to function. Though socialists often attribute it to problems elsewhere, the simple reason behind this occurrence is the mathematic and physical impossibility of managing an economy from a centralized form. One of communism's main ideals is complete control over industries. In order to efficiently plan industries, communism must simultaneously account for all industries (there are billions of different industries) and their relationship with each other at the same time. Within each specific industry certain goods are internally consumed to produce more of a certain product. An example of this occurrence, which is true in any economic system, is the market for oil. For instance, to drill more oil requires the use of gasoline for transportation, generators, machinery operation, refinery operation, and a dozen other things. Therefore to get more gasoline and drill more oil wells, some existing gasoline must be used up in the process, or internally consumed. This occurrence exists in every industry to varying extents resulting in a massive structure of interlining and constantly changing relationships between all industries. Further, if production in one industry changes, this change effects all other industries in one way or another due to inter linking relationships and internal consumption. On top of these complex internal relations exists a tendency of change relating to substitute and complementary goods effecting related markets and further entangling the complex relationship between industries of a large economy.
Communism's Theoretical Failures: Communism strives for the complete equality of all incomes, and therefore, everything. As income approaches complete equality, productivity disappears. For example: people work so they can make money to support themselves. They work driven by the incentive of making more money and succeeding. In capitalist systems, he who chooses not to work suffers the consequences while he who works receives the incentives, money, which he is working for. Human nature includes a desire to "do better" and, therefore, make more money or advance in a job. In an attempt to make more money, people are driven naturally work harder and longer, seek further education for themselves, and develop skills which distinguish them as rare talents among that labor which is available as supply. Under true communism, income is completely equal. When there is nothing to achieve by working harder or longer, people begin to become idle. People begin to work less or not work at all because there is no longer the incentive of making more money or advancing in job. When there are no workers, production drops to nothing. It will then be true that all incomes are equal but this equal income will be zero.
Communism's Death Toll: Communists and socialists will often tell you that capitalism "kills" the poor. Statistically, though, it is communism that is the cause of the greatest massacre in the history of the world. This results from starvation due to failed central economies, political killings of those defiant of the system, and killings due to the abuse of power and tyranny inherent and encouraged by an unchecked system. Approximately 100 MILLION deaths by direct murder worldwide can be traced to communism.
Communism's massacres:
- Soviet Union: between 20 and 50 million were put to death at the hands of this evil empire. (some estimates exceed upward of 50 million. As people were sent to camps, the Soviets often deleted all records of that persons existence making exact totals hard to find) Intentional starvings and man made famines were a major killer in the USSR. Worse were the gulag concentration camps (the Soviet equal to Hitler's concentration camps). At one point in 1940 Stalin held over 10 million people in the gulag camps. Enemies of the government were enslaved here then worked and tortured to death. Others were lined up in forests, shot, and buried in unmarked graves. In one Polish site from Stalin's occupation of Poland after treaty with Hitler in 1940, almost 5 thousand captured Polish POW's were lined up and shot at one time. Other cases involved 10 to 15 thousand being lined up and shot. The majority of these killings took place under Stalin's regime, often referred to as a "reign of terror." Stalin is estimated to have put 20% of Russia's population to death.
- Cambodia: Under the Kmehr Rouge and regime of Pol Pot in the 1970's, one of the most extreme forms of communism ever was attempted. 2 million were massacred in killing fields in attempts to move toward this "equal form of communism." The reason behind these massacres came from an attempt to build an "equal" society though the only equality which resulted was death. Those who had distinguishing differences from the government's planned economy of farmers were murdered. Scientists, doctors, laborers, and teachers with non-agricultural professions were targeted and murdered because they differed from the agricultural profession and created inequalities in jobs. Pol Pot murdered an estimated one fourth of the population of Cambodia.
- China: Mao Tse-Tung's "Great Step Forward" is widely known as the greatest disaster in attempt of a centralized economy. Countless millions were murdered and starved to death in China during this period. China also established a series of gulag concentration camps under Mao, complete with slave labor employing over 10 million people on numerous occasions. In fact, China still employs widespread forced labor today. Estimates on China suggest the total to be about 40 million dead.
- Vietnam: Though the totals on Vietnam are unknown due to poor record keeping and the fact that Vietnam remains communist today, several hundred thousands were murdered in Stalinist fashion of execution and slave labor camps.
- Others: other death tolls caused by communism by failed schemes in communist China and other communist countries add to the count as do the political prisoners of communism: many who only dared to think freely and differently from the government. Tito's Yugoslavia has estimates of around 1 million deaths to its credit. Mass murders occurred under the communist/socialist regimes of Fidel Castro in Cuba, Kim Il Sung's North Korea, Sandinista's in Nicaragua, Laos, and Ethiopia. In many of these places we will never know the extent of death caused as a DIRECT result of communism and socialism.
Every attempt at Communism has either failed or is failing:
Failed Communist and Socialist Societies: Went down with the Berlin Wall, failed due to overthrow by other forces, abandoned by inhabitants.
-Brook Farm and other Utopian Communities
-Soviet Union
-Eastern Bloc
-Yugoslavia
-Sandinista's Nicaragua
-Cambodia
Failing Communist and Socialist Societies: Forced to abandon their theories for moderation, pushed to the brink of failure.
-Cuba: all but abandoned socialism due to poverty, has become a dictatorship
-China: seeking capitalist-like reform with an expanded free trade ever since Mao's failures
-North Korea: on the brink of starvation due to disastrous failure
Modern Communists and Socialists: A Movement of Fraud
This list explains some of the psychological motives behind the neo-socialist/communist motives as well as identifies some major sub movements within the socialist/communist movements as well as the thinking, and fallacies, behind these movements.
- The Poser Commie Movement
- Socialist and Communist Ideologue Movement
- Demagogue Movement
- Old Guard Communist Movement
Bibliography of Related Works and Theories:
1. Input-Output Equationing Theory by Wassily Leontief, Nobel Prize in Economics. Applied to command economies by Baumol and Blinder.
2. Marx and Engels: The Communist Manifesto, Das Kapital, and other selected essays.
3. Lord Acton, selected writings. F.A. Hayek, The Road to Serfdom.
4. Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago. Also various records of other similar atrocities in Communist and Socialist states
From here:
http://members.tripod.com/~GOPcapitalist/socialistmyth.html
Cited above, after each essay.
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M$The UK ID card project.
Which costs approximately 5 BILLION yes BILLION with "B" (In US Dollars) to slap together.
The first UK ID cards have already been issued - but no UK police officers or border guards have any way of reading the data stored on them.
Personal Note:
Doh!
.....
.......
China's one child per family .
China has proclaimed that it will continue its one child policy, which limits couples to having one child, through the 2006-2010 five year planning period.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy
Personal Note:
""Honey I'm late again, what are we gonna do ?""
.....
......
........
And top it all off.
The biggest socialist undertaking ever.
The search for the "WEAPONS Of MAAAAAASS DESTRUCTION!!"
http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/a/1/saddam_wmd.jpg
^ Maybe they are in there ^...
Personal Note:
Hrm.. where did i put those WMD's .
My but, ....because there's just to much information up there.
I store some stuff other places when my brain gets to full.
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M$And to those of you who have modded me down because I used the WMD's as a policy failure please keep in mind, the US isn't the only country who chimed in on this cavity search.
for information pertaining to the WMD location you will have to dig around to find the old articles but go to the national federation of american scientist web site and read the -- clue they live right next door to iraq
"I was once a believer in socialized medicine. I don’t want to overstate my case: growing up in Canada, I didn’t spend much time contemplating the nuances of health economics. I wanted to get into medical school—my mind brimmed with statistics on MCAT scores and admissions rates, not health spending. But as a Canadian, I had soaked up three things from my environment: a love of ice hockey; an ability to convert Celsius into Fahrenheit in my head; and the belief that government-run health care was truly compassionate. What I knew about American health care was unappealing: high expenses and lots of uninsured people. When HillaryCare shook Washington, I remember thinking that the Clintonistas were right.
My health-care prejudices crumbled not in the classroom but on the way to one. On a subzero Winnipeg morning in 1997, I cut across the hospital emergency room to shave a few minutes off my frigid commute. Swinging open the door, I stepped into a nightmare: the ER overflowed with elderly people on stretchers, waiting for admission. Some, it turned out, had waited five days. The air stank with sweat and urine. Right then, I began to reconsider everything that I thought I knew about Canadian health care. I soon discovered that the problems went well beyond overcrowded ERs. Patients had to wait for practically any diagnostic test or procedure, such as the man with persistent pain from a hernia operation whom we referred to a pain clinic—with a three-year wait list; or the woman needing a sleep study to diagnose what seemed like sleep apnea, who faced a two-year delay; or the woman with breast cancer who needed to wait four months for radiation therapy, when the standard of care was four weeks.
I decided to write about what I saw. By day, I attended classes and visited patients; at night, I worked on a book. Unfortunately, statistics on Canadian health care’s weaknesses were hard to come by, and even finding people willing to criticize the system was difficult, such was the emotional support that it then enjoyed. One family friend, diagnosed with cancer, was told to wait for potentially lifesaving chemotherapy. I called to see if I could write about his plight. Worried about repercussions, he asked me to change his name. A bit later, he asked if I could change his sex in the story, and maybe his town. Finally, he asked if I could change the illness, too.
My book’s thesis was simple: to contain rising costs, government-run health-care systems invariably restrict the health-care supply. Thus, at a time when Canada’s population was aging and needed more care, not less, cost-crunching bureaucrats had reduced the size of medical school classes, shuttered hospitals, and capped physician fees, resulting in hundreds of thousands of patients waiting for needed treatment—patients who suffered and, in some cases, died from the delays. The only solution, I concluded, was to move away from government command-and-control structures and toward a more market-oriented system. To capture Canadian health care’s growing crisis, I called my book Code Blue, the term used when a patient’s heart stops and hospital staff must leap into action to save him. Though I had a hard time finding a Canadian publisher, the book eventually came out in 1999 from a small imprint; it struck a nerve, going through five printings.
Nor were the problems I identified unique to Canada—they characterized all government-run health-care systems. Consider the recent British controversy over a cancer patient who tried to get an appointment with a specialist, only to have it canceled—48 times. More than 1 million Britons must wait for some type of care, with 200,000 in line for longer than six months. A while back, I toured a public hospital in Washington, D.C., with Tim Evans, a senior fellow at the Centre for the New Europe. The hospital was dark and dingy, but Evans observed that it was cleaner than anything in his native England. In France, the supply of doctors is so limited that during an August 2003 heat wave—when many doctors were on vacation and hospitals were stretched beyond capacity—15,000 elderly citizens died. Across Europe, state-of-the-art drugs aren’t available. And so on."
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M$Canada is neither communist nor socialist.
And their health care program has been highly successful!
i agree
universal healthcare is a fond idea but simply imposible to be carried out well efficiently
i think the same about communism, the theory it sounds great everyone being equal and sharing and everything is for the people.but as history has show and idea and reality are two vastly different things. i think a better question would be to find examples of when communism has actually worked.
in terms of economy and happiness and freedoms of the people communism has failed epicly in every account.
Yeah, sorry, I'm going to refute this one too.
I live in the Greater Toronto Area. Either my family or I have received care at a variety of hospitals from the extremely busy Sunnybrook Healthcare Center right through to small local community hospitals.
I strongly refute the fact that our ER's are unbearable. There is a significant volume of people and it was a lot worse a few years ago, but our government should be commended (if for nothing else) making that experience better.
Here is a first hand example:
Less than a month ago, my step-father had a serious heart attack. He was picked up by an ambulance and delivered to a hospital not 20 minutes after he called. He was seen immediately and treated promptly. He received 3 shunts and is walking around like a champ now. After they pulled the health card out of his wallet, he was never asked another question about insurance coverage, etc.
Another short example:
My 3 year old daughter was playing in her room. She put a small plastic toy up her nose. While this certainly wasn't life threatining, neither my wife nor I could get it out. We took her to a small, local ER just after dinner time. She was treated quickly, without drugs and by a very friendly doctor who knew what he was doing. We were in-and-out of the hospital in under 2 hours during a "prime" time of night. It was busy and we were certainly low on the triage list.
I'm not saying that my personal experiences with the Canadian healthcare system may not be localized and somewhat lucky. What I am saying is that different experiences in healthcare are a result of a lot of different variables.
For better or worse, I have never (ever in my whole life) paid anything except for a donation to a hospital. Well, except for increased taxes but that can be easily controlled. As shown in our federal elections, a completely privatized system surely would have benefits, but weighed against the personal experiences of the country as a whole, we're better off with the system we have.
tracebooks, I was interested in the article so I read it, but then I googled the author. I found the info about him that was in wikipedia disturbing. I have never lived in a country where they have a medical system like Canada's but from what my sister says, Australia has a similar system. Her feelings are enlightening I think. She is an extremely conservative fundamentalist Christian who, along with her husband, is a missionary to Australia. She is always decrying the socialism of Australia. Yet when I ask her if she and her husband are planning to move back to the United States, her answer basically is that they would like to but they need the free health care that they get in Australia. So I don't know.
Did you read the link from which I took the quote from? I would not say that waiting lists that long are successful healthcare.
What do you call it when the government pays for healthcare, if not socialized? That's just semantics. I did find a website that supports the Canadian healthcare system, stating it "only" raises their taxes 10%, while in the author's province the additional cost is $108 a month for a family of four. So another 10% of your earnings, plus $108C. That's not cheap, either. http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/mythbusting-canadian-health-care-part-i --note, it's a blog supporting Canadian healthcare--an AMERICAN blog. So not the majority Canadian voice. The Canadian journalist/med student doesn't support it.
No has spotted it so I will have to admit my own math blunder! $4000pa over 50 years is $200k not $2m. Shucks.
The Canadian system is currently struggling under burden of an aging population but it is certainly not as bad as this is letting on.
I'm always amazed at stories like the above where the health care available to the average Canadian in Winnipeg (the above is highly exaggerated I am sure) is compared unfavourably with the treatment a fully insured American in a major metropolitan centre would get. Let's compare average, under insured American with average Canadian. Or, to make Canada shine, compare uninsured American with poor Canadian.
As far as the article goes, I would take any article on socialized medicine that is headed by quotes from prominent conservatives with a grain of salt.
There's a big difference between saying policy X has a number of problems, and saying policy X failed, or policy X did not achieve what was intended.
In an ideal world we might want healthcare that is wonderful. cheap and universal. However in the real world there are usually trade-offs. Some countries democratically choose to go for cheap, universal and with problems. Others go for expensive, wonderful and universal. And still others go for very expensive, wonderful, far from universal.
And then there's Cuba:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/review/review_summer_02/677cuba.html
I don't know the details for Canada, but anytime a politician tries to suggest they want to make the British health system less "socialist" they take a hell of a beating from the electorate.
Here's an interesting blog post:
http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/healthlawprof_blog/2008/12/british-health.html
A key point is the choice isn't between British healthcare and American healthcare. It's between British healthcare or paying $4000 pa more for the American version. That could be another $2m you'd have over your lifetime. While it seems the British are in at least as good health as Americans, but the hospitals aren't so comfortable.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/42717.php
In the end it's as much about First Class versus Coach. No one imagines you're not going to have queues in Coach. But the back of the plane gets to the destination too, and you can't say that people who choose to fly there made a bad decision, just because you prefer and can afford First.
@philipy 4000 per year . You mean 333.333333333333333333333333333333 on and on per month
Just kidding
I know you said add with some amount :)
@morriss003: After your comment, I also Googled him. It appears the dispute happened in the middle of a presidential candidate campaign, and it's not certain whether he misused statistics or vice-versa. Given that it happened in the midst of a heated campaign, it's hard to say. But it is the only controversy in a long and distinguished career.
But he is board-certified, has been on the board of governors of a Canadian university, and is currently at the Manhattan Institute. I'd say he's in a position to know.
@eatthatpop... The original question asks for "policies", not countries. I don't think that Canada is socialist or communist!
As a Canadian who has enjoyed free health care my whole life I don't think you can say the system has failed. Members of my family for example have received and appreciated the care they need for procedures that would have otherwised bankrupted us in other countries (ie: My father has had several heart operations and did not had to wait long to get them, in each case his life was saved)
In fact, Tommy Douglas, the Politician who brought Universal Health Care to Canada was voted as "The Greatest Canadian of All Time" just a couple years ago. We love our health care system, sure there are a few who don't appreciated it as much as the rest, and there might be several ways to improve it still, but the general consensus is that we are very fortunate to have free health care.
http://www.cbc.ca/greatest/top_ten/nominee/douglas-tommy.html




@ronburgandy... What are you going to use these examples for? If I knew that, it would help me work out what kind of data, references and level of analysis are appropriate.
I'm afraid life is a little bit more complicated than a matter of socialist "faith in the collective". For example, if we're talking about collective farming in the Soviet Union, part of the strory went like this...
1) The communists wanted to industrialise
2) That meant invesment was needed to build the new industries
3) Without foreign investment or domestic captialists, where could recources for investment come from? Answer - either the rural peasants or the urban workers
4) The preferred plan was to use "surpluses" from the peasants
5) The peasants were not so keen on the idea
6) Stalin wasn't a guy to take no for an answer
7) Farm collectivisation was pushed through
8) The wealthier peasants, called kulaks, were exterminated
9) Rural output fell a long way (thus removing the surpluses which was supposed to finance industrialisation)
10) With rural livelihoods in trouble, a lot of people moved to the cities
11) This helped keep urban wages low
12) In the end Soviet industrialisation was paid for by the urban workers through wages forced artificially low, and by the peasants forced to seek employment in cities
None of this really fits in with any theory of socialism or faith in collectives.
And if we assume that Stalin's goal in the 1930s was to industrialise fast and he didn't care who got hurt in the process, you'd have to say he achieved his aim.
I think your examples are along the lines I am looking for. Specifically, I need policies/programs that rely on the socialist/communist faith in the collective. They don't have to specifically have failed BECAUSE of the government was socialist or communist, but they have to be programs/policies that relied on that ideal. I think you are on the right track with collective farming & state ownership. Could you provide me with more along those lines?
Your last paragraph gives an different perspective to think about. It reminds me of one of my school friend :). Thanks
"- Problems of central planning systems in India"
This is a good one. Wish I had thought of it.