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1 year, 2 months ago via Twitter

Hypothetical: Would you rather have AT+T wiretap w/NSA or a domestic terror attack every seven years that killed 50 people?

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joshontheweb | 1 year, 2 months ago
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100% against NSA wiretap.

He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security. - Benjamin Franklin

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mangoprojects | 1 year, 2 months ago
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"If you give an inch, they will take a yard." If we let our government wiretap its people for protection, then nothing will stop our government from putting tracks on us just to make sure its people get home safe.

We are all going to die. I will take my chances with the domestic attack. It makes life worth living.

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seankilleen | 1 year, 2 months ago
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An attack on 50 people 7 years is a statistical chance; an attack on our liberties is an attack on all of us, all the time. Many people have given up their lives for our freedoms; given this scenario, if I was on the wrong side of that statistic, I'd do the same.

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jarretty | 1 year, 1 month ago
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It's always easy to answer "50 people" when the term is so generic. However, put faces on those "50 people," perhaps personal friends, family members and other loved ones, and I'd like to see how quickly people give that same answer.

Our phones have been wiretapped since the 1960s.

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hiester | 1 year, 2 months ago
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The premise is flawed. It's not an either/or zero-sum equation where we have to have either NSA invading the privacy and violating the constitutional rights of millions of innocent people or a terrorist attack. Security expert Bruce Schneier says, "Finding terrorism plots is not a problem that lends itself to data mining. It's a needle-in-a-haystack problem, and throwing more hay on the pile doesn't make that problem any easier." See http://www.schneier.com/essay-108.html

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SpencerPCooley | 1 year, 2 months ago
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50 people

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jake_gold | 1 year, 2 months ago
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My old (deceased) friend answered this a good while back. He said something like: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.". Good ol' Ben F., he will be missed.

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aaronjanderson | 1 year, 2 months ago
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50 People. Aren't we all supposed to want to live and die for our freedoms? and privacy?

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j0nyentr0py | 1 year, 2 months ago
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OK, put that in perspective, what is 50 deaths a year?
let's take the US annual Homicide rate:
Assualt, Homicide: 18,361
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm
the lowest cited leading annual cause of death is Septicemia: 34,828...
(follow the cited doc for the big list)
SO give me liberty or give me death!
(18,361 / 50 = 367.22 times over annually!)
seriously, I know we have to do a certain amount, but have to question how much this really amounts to when you stop one incident, versus the cost of civil liberties... what is the realistic cost?

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Tanin | 1 year, 2 months ago
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That's like asking if I'd rather have government agents on my roof with metal umbrellas or 7 meteor strikes a year somewhere in the country. Statistically those agents on my roof substantially affect my life more than any 7 meteor strikes. Granted, meteor strikes are not targeted, but again, you're still more likely to die of Salmonella or something more common. According to an NSC study you're 17,600 times more likely to die from a heart disease than from a terrorist attack. 12,571 times more likely to die from cancer than from a terrorist attack. 11,000 times more likely to die in an airplane accident than from a terrorist plot involving an airplane. 8 times more likely to be killed by a police officer than by a terrorist. The list goes on. I'm told by my scientifically literate mind that it would be perfectly logical to choose that I rather not be spies on than hear of yet another religious nut job duped into being on his or her way to see his or her imaginary friend.

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loudneighbor | 1 year, 2 months ago
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It's too much like Jobs saved or created. It's an imaginary number no one can prove one way or the other. I am gonna have to shoot for the 50 people cause it's the one uncertainty in the equation.

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mbreslin | 1 year, 2 months ago
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False Dilemma.

The answer is: Ask a different question.

There are thought experiments and logic puzzles that while thinking about them we actually gain some perspective or some idea we hadn't thought of before.

This question is not one of them, the asker commits a fallacy, what makes it worse is that he knows he's doing so. Spreading these kind of false dilemmas around only serves to muddy the waters of what should be thoughtful discourse about an important topic.

I only made an account to ask you to please think before you contribute thoughts that are an impediment to reasonable discussion.

Think of the average voter, not as a group, think of the voter perfectly in the middle of the intelligence spectrum. Now realize that half of all voters are less intelligent than even that middle of the road idiot. These kinds of fallacies will only confuse that lot and you'll wind up with worse legislation than you can imagine.

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