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I apologize for the length of this answer but I want to keep each answer to your questions distinct from each other.
First, I would not do anything until the Obama administration announces the details of their stimulus package. There is almost universal acceptance that a large portion of the package will go toward green renewable energy technology. As such, the time line(s) outlined in this package will give you a stronger idea about how quickly green technology, including solar, will improve.
Second, I would be VERY hesitant to go with any company's flier without researching several competitors. Quoting a flat price to "solar your house" makes me immediately skeptical. Your cost will depend on the type of solar you wish to install (panel vs. tube), the size of space available for installing solar (rooftop and yard), and the system you wish to install to hook up the solar to your household. Some states allow for you to hook solar up directly to the grid and sell your excess energy back to the company. Others don't. Other systems will hook up one or two appliances to the solar power, which requires much less internal hardware and labor.
Third, we can all give you our thoughts here on Mahalo but solar is a very fickle source of energy and highly dependent on your specific geographical location. The further south in the U.S. that you live the better suited you are to solar. However, if you live in are part of the country that experiences many cloudy days or you have several trees that obscure the sun from your property the benefits of solar will be greatly reduced.
Finally, while I consider myself to be knowledgeable on the subject I am not so knowledgeable as to be able to predict the future of solar, particularly without knowing the specifics of your exact geographical location. The expression "Six in one, half dozen the other" comes to mind. While solar prices will decrease over the next several years you will be paying higher utility costs during the period prior to making the switch. Over a period of twenty years whether you install tomorrow or in five years your total expenses in twenty years will most likely be very close together. The savings in utility bills will be offset by the increase in panel price and vice versa if you wait five years.
However, I feel that I need to make an exception to this rule if you are considering installing solar tubes for heating water. Solar panels (as shown in your photograph) are extremely durable and can withstand hail, falling branches, prying squirrels, etc... Solar tubes on the other hand are quite delicate. If you were looking into solar tubes I would strongly encourage you to hold off.
I will close with one final thought. If you are looking at saving money and getting that good "green" feeling I would recommend you consider geo-thermal. It's commonly believed that if you live in certain parts of the country the subsurface of your terrain is unsuitable to geo-thermal (too rocky making drilling deep bores cost prohibitive). In fact, if you have a little bit of space on your property a closed loop horizontal system can dramatically alter your heating and cooling bills. You only need to drill four to six feet deep (below frost line by a couple of feet) and after the system is installed you will be heating your house up from the constant temperature of the ground (roughly 56 degrees).
To provide you with an example, if you live in a town where the nightly low falls below 26 degrees at some point in the winter rather than having your heater warm 26 degree air to your thermostat's temperature all your heater must do is heat air from 56 degrees to your thermostat's temperature, much less work by your heater and a major cost savings to you.
I haven't cited any sources for this answer as the answer I have given come from my personal knowledge. I wish I could recommend a short list of sites for you but I would have to say that the best way is to take the information provided in all of the answers posted to your question, roll up your sleeves, and finish the search with your newly acquired information.
Whether tomorrow or in five years, congrats on making the move to a more environmentally friendly home!
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xds
Source(s):
'The Google Story', My brain.
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In fact, now is a particular good time. With Obama ready to take oath, there will most definately be more tax benefits etc. for you if you have solar panel over your head, which means more money in your pocket. After all, if you want to wait 5 years, why not 10? or 15?
Source(s):
http://solarthermal.com/facts_about_solar_energy.asp
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With the market being what it is, you can likely get cut rate deals even on quality product. If you are going to do something now while companies are desperately looking for business, I'd shop around and put pressure on them to offer you lower prices.
As for the long-term future of solar, this is probably always going to be an issue, as technology always improves. A 5-year speculation range is probably way too far for anyone here to give you any useful advisement on cost-benefits.
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I would think that vendors would be able to negotiate price --- end to end. The economy in its current state puts us consumers in a favorable position when it comes to spending on services that can be easily overpriced based on demand.
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http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/599917/solar_power_advances_keep_coming_in.html
Appears they are breaking records each year, so will they be making major advances with the next 5 years, which you should wait for?
Looks like, probably. If you look at some of the predictions on the drop in price on the then solar cells that can be rolled on (And making your foot print smaller, even while using thin film solar cell technology).
Here's one from microsoft: http://cleantechnica.com/2008/12/02/ibm-predict-solar-sidewalks-in-5-years/
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86RpIwNTGvI
Thin Films on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_cell#Thin_films
If it were me, I'd wait for the thin film technology. It won't be that long of a wait, and I think it'll be worth it. If you can't wait.
Here's a solar energy buying guide for you:
http://www.solarbuzz.com/Customer.htm
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The stuff they have now pales in comparison with what they are releasing in the coming months.
I say wait because soon they will be introducing end-user available systems that work off 3 other spectrums of light.
It would be like 3x as powerful and energy absorbing as current systems available now.
Their is however a company called Citizens Energy (something like that) that will actually pay you to put solar panels on your roof and buy the power off you.
I forget the link but i'm going to do some digging later this evening .
The story was featured on TreeHugger.com from what i remember.
Source(s):
My Brain.
Citizens Energy
TreeHugger.
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At least JC has gone for the low car emission route, now to take the whole bleedin country with him.
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That is why, I say: learn what is coming up, and if it is worth waiting for, then wait for that, and get it when it hits.
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Source(s):
http://www.dsireusa.org/
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A 3.11 kW system would provide half of the demand for a home in Santa Monica (90401) consuming 900 kW/month. This system would have an estimated install cost of $28,030 less $8409 for post install incentives. Your estimated monthly savings would be $67.32 and the estimated break even would be 17.30 years. With a lifespan of 25 years or so you will still have eight years remaining after recovering your costs before you need to consider replacing anything.
If the annual cost of electicity increases quicker than 4% a year your break even point will come even sooner.
Source(s):
http://www.findsolar.com/index.php?page=rightforme
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Maybe it might have some future impact on home value if you might sell in near future, but given the turmoil there I wouldn't bank on it.
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Instead of spending 20 minutes writing, i decided to spend 20 minutes thinking. It seems like i look at this question every year and wonder if we as a public will simply keep asking this question or seize the opportunity. Depending on status of how one might affect consumption, i think we should be asking ourselves different questions. I am a big believer that small steps are just as important as large steps so if you haven't taken any small steps, then solar is probably not the one to take. i say this because financially, it seems a loss. Green plans seem something of that with dock talk. I did pull up the same old song and dance links; however, it didn't amuse me seeing the same blog talk either.
There is the NanoSolar, HelioVolt, Solyndra, and First Solar things i read before. I think anything is great, but technology is like computers, every year it gets cheaper so technically we could never do anything. Instead, i think we should follow leadership like the Pickens Plan and realize the first thing we can do is develop an energy plan of our own, maybe even co-op ideas with people to get it started. The hot trend this year is precycling so kind of in that same instrument, i am suggesting presolar or something like presolar.org. By doing this, you can help in a much bigger way in helping people prepare and start tiny steps toward energy savings. This way, we can all be ready. By developing a plan, then ideas will grow, but without plans, we will still be talking next year.
Just as an example and concept, i suggested a concept link in ways we can meet presolar product criteria...
Energy type savings kits example:
http://www.power-save1200.com/kit.html
Source(s):
http://www.power-save1200.com/kit.html
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I'd bet money that we are going to have an energy crisis soon. I know many people have the environment on their mind, and are looking to buy solar panels now. Prices for them will probably go down for solar panels, but they will probably go back up, possibly very quickly.
I say wait, but not five years. Keep your eyes peeled on the price for solarizing your house, and get them when the price seems to be going no lower.
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If you want or need to be off the grid for some reason then you wouldn't care as much about efficiency and might lean towards panels, but if that isn't a requirement then I'd wait.
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Secondly, the longer you wait, the better (and likely, cheaper) panels will be. It's a relatively young technology and it's not really practical in most places yet, so unless you live somewhere sunny all year around where they may be efficient, it's probably best to put it off and conserve energy instead (not overusing climate control, CFLs or LEDs instead of incandescents, turning lights off when you leave the room, etc.)
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If everyone could afford them and buy them the whole market for them would explode and they would get cheaper and better. As it stands now, you have to have money to save money. A position I wish I was in.
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Answered Question
M$5
January 05, 2009 10:06 PM
Should I put solar panels on my house now, or wait five years?
Everyone is telling me about big advances in solar power coming in the next five years, but I keep getting these $50,000 to solar your house fliers in the mail that say I can save 30% due to a federal grant so the cost is $35k and you can make that back over 30 years (or something).
What's the best thing to do and why?:
1. Do it now and enjoy the benefits/feel better about our footprint
2. Wait for five years when the technology makes a big leap?*
* Is solar going to make a big leap in cost/power generation ratio is the big question I guess.
I'd like a well researched answer with citations, links, studies, providers, etc. Please take at least 20 minutes to research this unless you're already an expert.
What's the best thing to do and why?:
1. Do it now and enjoy the benefits/feel better about our footprint
2. Wait for five years when the technology makes a big leap?*
* Is solar going to make a big leap in cost/power generation ratio is the big question I guess.
I'd like a well researched answer with citations, links, studies, providers, etc. Please take at least 20 minutes to research this unless you're already an expert.
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Best Answer Chosen by Asker
| January 06, 2009 05:18 AM |
First, I would not do anything until the Obama administration announces the details of their stimulus package. There is almost universal acceptance that a large portion of the package will go toward green renewable energy technology. As such, the time line(s) outlined in this package will give you a stronger idea about how quickly green technology, including solar, will improve.
Second, I would be VERY hesitant to go with any company's flier without researching several competitors. Quoting a flat price to "solar your house" makes me immediately skeptical. Your cost will depend on the type of solar you wish to install (panel vs. tube), the size of space available for installing solar (rooftop and yard), and the system you wish to install to hook up the solar to your household. Some states allow for you to hook solar up directly to the grid and sell your excess energy back to the company. Others don't. Other systems will hook up one or two appliances to the solar power, which requires much less internal hardware and labor.
Third, we can all give you our thoughts here on Mahalo but solar is a very fickle source of energy and highly dependent on your specific geographical location. The further south in the U.S. that you live the better suited you are to solar. However, if you live in are part of the country that experiences many cloudy days or you have several trees that obscure the sun from your property the benefits of solar will be greatly reduced.
Finally, while I consider myself to be knowledgeable on the subject I am not so knowledgeable as to be able to predict the future of solar, particularly without knowing the specifics of your exact geographical location. The expression "Six in one, half dozen the other" comes to mind. While solar prices will decrease over the next several years you will be paying higher utility costs during the period prior to making the switch. Over a period of twenty years whether you install tomorrow or in five years your total expenses in twenty years will most likely be very close together. The savings in utility bills will be offset by the increase in panel price and vice versa if you wait five years.
However, I feel that I need to make an exception to this rule if you are considering installing solar tubes for heating water. Solar panels (as shown in your photograph) are extremely durable and can withstand hail, falling branches, prying squirrels, etc... Solar tubes on the other hand are quite delicate. If you were looking into solar tubes I would strongly encourage you to hold off.
I will close with one final thought. If you are looking at saving money and getting that good "green" feeling I would recommend you consider geo-thermal. It's commonly believed that if you live in certain parts of the country the subsurface of your terrain is unsuitable to geo-thermal (too rocky making drilling deep bores cost prohibitive). In fact, if you have a little bit of space on your property a closed loop horizontal system can dramatically alter your heating and cooling bills. You only need to drill four to six feet deep (below frost line by a couple of feet) and after the system is installed you will be heating your house up from the constant temperature of the ground (roughly 56 degrees).
To provide you with an example, if you live in a town where the nightly low falls below 26 degrees at some point in the winter rather than having your heater warm 26 degree air to your thermostat's temperature all your heater must do is heat air from 56 degrees to your thermostat's temperature, much less work by your heater and a major cost savings to you.
I haven't cited any sources for this answer as the answer I have given come from my personal knowledge. I wish I could recommend a short list of sites for you but I would have to say that the best way is to take the information provided in all of the answers posted to your question, roll up your sleeves, and finish the search with your newly acquired information.
Whether tomorrow or in five years, congrats on making the move to a more environmentally friendly home!
| Asker's Rating: |
• This is an amazing answer. thanks.
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xds
January 06, 2009 08:04 AM
BEST ANSWER YET!
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Other Answers (21)
January 05, 2009 10:20 PM
You should wait, because currently solar panels are pretty expensive. Different companies are researching for new technologies for solar panels. I know that Larry Page's brother has a company that is trying to make paper-like solar panels, which are arguably inexpensive. My choice: Wait.
Source(s):
'The Google Story', My brain.
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January 05, 2009 10:22 PM
You should not wait. From an environmental prospective, the sooner the better. From an economy perspective, yes it probably will be cheaper in 5 years, but the money you save between now and 5 years from now should cover that difference, and then some. In fact, you will save 85% on your electricity bills on average, and in good weather (fall and spring) you'd get a CHECK from your electricity provider instead of a bill. How sweet is that? In fact, now is a particular good time. With Obama ready to take oath, there will most definately be more tax benefits etc. for you if you have solar panel over your head, which means more money in your pocket. After all, if you want to wait 5 years, why not 10? or 15?
Source(s):
http://solarthermal.com/facts_about_solar_energy.asp
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January 05, 2009 10:26 PM
If you can afford them, why not? You seem like the person who would do this sort of thing, especially being an early adopter with the electric vehicle. I do not know how much they cost, but surely if I could afford them, they certainly are worth it. I know people who have done this, and they do not regret it. You can always upgrade the technology later.
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January 05, 2009 10:30 PM
What's the current life expectancy of the solar panels, 20 years? If so then you'll be spending more for your electricity and never get your money back. Also the current technology is only 15% efficient. Some go as high as 41% but they are very expensive. Wait for the technology to improve, electricity is still a bargain compared to other forms of energy. Save your money.
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January 05, 2009 10:32 PM
If you're in the US, then it is very likely that the government will introduce additional incentives to invest in solar. I'd probably wait till April before jumping in, just to see what the government will do. With the market being what it is, you can likely get cut rate deals even on quality product. If you are going to do something now while companies are desperately looking for business, I'd shop around and put pressure on them to offer you lower prices.
As for the long-term future of solar, this is probably always going to be an issue, as technology always improves. A 5-year speculation range is probably way too far for anyone here to give you any useful advisement on cost-benefits.
Permalink | Report
January 05, 2009 10:33 PM
Personally, i think the tech will obviously get better, smaller, faster, better within 5 years and as chn-cs-htg pointed out -- in 5 years the cost savings may very well put you in a position to do significant system upgrades, if necessary. I would think that vendors would be able to negotiate price --- end to end. The economy in its current state puts us consumers in a favorable position when it comes to spending on services that can be easily overpriced based on demand.
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January 05, 2009 10:38 PM
Here's an article on recent advancements: http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/599917/solar_power_advances_keep_coming_in.html
Appears they are breaking records each year, so will they be making major advances with the next 5 years, which you should wait for?
Looks like, probably. If you look at some of the predictions on the drop in price on the then solar cells that can be rolled on (And making your foot print smaller, even while using thin film solar cell technology).
Here's one from microsoft: http://cleantechnica.com/2008/12/02/ibm-predict-solar-sidewalks-in-5-years/
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86RpIwNTGvI
Thin Films on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_cell#Thin_films
If it were me, I'd wait for the thin film technology. It won't be that long of a wait, and I think it'll be worth it. If you can't wait.
Here's a solar energy buying guide for you:
http://www.solarbuzz.com/Customer.htm
Permalink | Report
January 05, 2009 10:45 PM
We have a 2 kilowatt system i installed about a year ago. The stuff they have now pales in comparison with what they are releasing in the coming months.
I say wait because soon they will be introducing end-user available systems that work off 3 other spectrums of light.
It would be like 3x as powerful and energy absorbing as current systems available now.
Their is however a company called Citizens Energy (something like that) that will actually pay you to put solar panels on your roof and buy the power off you.
I forget the link but i'm going to do some digging later this evening .
The story was featured on TreeHugger.com from what i remember.
Source(s):
My Brain.
Citizens Energy
TreeHugger.
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January 05, 2009 10:50 PM
Hey, if you've got money to throw at this then go for it. Just calculate your losses over the next 10-15 years and see if they are acceptable to you. If they are, then great; go be an eco-green house. If not, just sell any US built petrol cars and get something with a perfectly reasonable 2L engine from Europe. The US is such a wasteful country it's unbelievable. At least JC has gone for the low car emission route, now to take the whole bleedin country with him.
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January 05, 2009 11:04 PM
I'm going to have to say wait a bit. Newer, better solar panel technology is definitely on its' way, and when it hits, see how it does, and the buy it. But remember, like computers, waiting for that extra boost of power that you know is coming is a never-ending battle, so you might as well splurge when the splurging is good. That is why, I say: learn what is coming up, and if it is worth waiting for, then wait for that, and get it when it hits.
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January 05, 2009 11:32 PM
Depending on the state where you live you could be eligble for a subsidy or rebate if you install them now. Not to mention you can save 5 years of energy costs.
Source(s):
http://www.dsireusa.org/
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January 05, 2009 11:40 PM
I think that you should do it now. It is similar to the question of taking social security when you are eligible or waiting a few years. You never catch up. A 3.11 kW system would provide half of the demand for a home in Santa Monica (90401) consuming 900 kW/month. This system would have an estimated install cost of $28,030 less $8409 for post install incentives. Your estimated monthly savings would be $67.32 and the estimated break even would be 17.30 years. With a lifespan of 25 years or so you will still have eight years remaining after recovering your costs before you need to consider replacing anything.
If the annual cost of electicity increases quicker than 4% a year your break even point will come even sooner.
Source(s):
http://www.findsolar.com/index.php?page=rightforme
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January 06, 2009 01:22 AM
A savings of $67.32 per month for 17.30 years is $13,975, not $19,621.
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January 06, 2009 01:13 AM
In my opinion, its best to wait unless you are looking to make a statement not tied to a monetary amount. Just like with some of the cost analysis on electric / hybrid cars. The cost savings probably are not great or take too long to be realized. If the payback is say 20 years, its probably likely you would never take it that far because you would be installing new panels within 10 years because they are X times more efficient. Maybe it might have some future impact on home value if you might sell in near future, but given the turmoil there I wouldn't bank on it.
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January 06, 2009 01:38 AM
PreSolar Instead of spending 20 minutes writing, i decided to spend 20 minutes thinking. It seems like i look at this question every year and wonder if we as a public will simply keep asking this question or seize the opportunity. Depending on status of how one might affect consumption, i think we should be asking ourselves different questions. I am a big believer that small steps are just as important as large steps so if you haven't taken any small steps, then solar is probably not the one to take. i say this because financially, it seems a loss. Green plans seem something of that with dock talk. I did pull up the same old song and dance links; however, it didn't amuse me seeing the same blog talk either.
There is the NanoSolar, HelioVolt, Solyndra, and First Solar things i read before. I think anything is great, but technology is like computers, every year it gets cheaper so technically we could never do anything. Instead, i think we should follow leadership like the Pickens Plan and realize the first thing we can do is develop an energy plan of our own, maybe even co-op ideas with people to get it started. The hot trend this year is precycling so kind of in that same instrument, i am suggesting presolar or something like presolar.org. By doing this, you can help in a much bigger way in helping people prepare and start tiny steps toward energy savings. This way, we can all be ready. By developing a plan, then ideas will grow, but without plans, we will still be talking next year.
Just as an example and concept, i suggested a concept link in ways we can meet presolar product criteria...
Energy type savings kits example:
http://www.power-save1200.com/kit.html
Source(s):
http://www.power-save1200.com/kit.html
Permalink | Report
January 06, 2009 01:40 AM
Are you able to find used solar panels on the cheap? I don't know where you would, but if you are able to find cheap solar panels, they will probably save you a great deal of money. I'd bet money that we are going to have an energy crisis soon. I know many people have the environment on their mind, and are looking to buy solar panels now. Prices for them will probably go down for solar panels, but they will probably go back up, possibly very quickly.
I say wait, but not five years. Keep your eyes peeled on the price for solarizing your house, and get them when the price seems to be going no lower.
Permalink | Report
January 06, 2009 02:19 AM
If you want the max efficiency which translates directly to payback time, wait on PV and put a solar hot water system in now. HomePower magazine (Oct/Nov '08) just did a comparison of PV versus SHW in terms of both payback and pollutant savings. Right now your biggest bang for the buck for both is SWH. If you want or need to be off the grid for some reason then you wouldn't care as much about efficiency and might lean towards panels, but if that isn't a requirement then I'd wait.
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January 06, 2009 09:40 AM
Well, first you should find out whether solar power is really even practical where you live, it's not good for everywhere, you need a certain amount of sun at least, and the more the better. Secondly, the longer you wait, the better (and likely, cheaper) panels will be. It's a relatively young technology and it's not really practical in most places yet, so unless you live somewhere sunny all year around where they may be efficient, it's probably best to put it off and conserve energy instead (not overusing climate control, CFLs or LEDs instead of incandescents, turning lights off when you leave the room, etc.)
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January 06, 2009 03:45 PM
If you can afford it, yes! Note only are you getting the benefits now, YOU would be helping advance the technology! Without users, there is no money for development (I am sure you know that). As for waiting for more advanced panels, that is like saying not to by a computer until a faster CPU comes out.. which is every week. If everyone could afford them and buy them the whole market for them would explode and they would get cheaper and better. As it stands now, you have to have money to save money. A position I wish I was in.
Permalink | Report
January 06, 2009 04:00 PM
I think that is also a good point, however just because there are not to many users of a particular product doesn't mean R&D needs to suffer. That is what VC is for.
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