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M$1 October 30, 2009 12:26 AM

My program has a low graduation rate and I'm horrified of flunking out of school! What should I do? Does it take more than just hard work?

I take computer programmer analyst. It's a 6 semester program at a college in Ontario. For the last few years, the stats have all been about the same -

*120 people start first year.
*1/2 of those people drop out or switch programs in the first year.
*Roughly 60 people at the start of second year (65 this time around)
*3rd semester (the one I'm currently in) is designed to be the most challenging and weed out the people that aren't dedicated enough. We just finished midterms, and 25 people have already dropped out or switched programs due to pure difficulty. About 30% of those remaining are failing.
*At the end of 3rd year, there are typically 8-12 graduates.

I'm clearly not giving up - I'd rather flunk out than quit, but with so few graduates, is there more than just hard work needed? I'm starting to feel a little hopeless. I'm not as fast a worker as some of the guys (I happen to be the only female left), so I've been working nearly non stop for the last few weeks, staying up all night multiple times a week. I only start to have problems with more obscure coding methods, but once I learn them I have no problem. It just takes me awhile, and lots of help.
I'm doing very well in 4 of my classes.
One class I'm not doing great, but I'm passing - however, the class average is around 40% for that class so everyone is doing poorly.
One class I honestly don't know If I'll pass (c++). The teacher is extremely tough. I have no idea how I did on my midterm exam, and my last project didn't compile so I received 0 - he's letting me make up some of the mark but I'm not sure it will be enough.

Do you think in a case like this, it takes more than just working hard? I'm horrified to fail - I've never had a hard time with school work in my life, and I don't have a back up plan. I can't imagine going through for another program, or spending 2 years trying to repeat courses.
I play on the school's badminton team so I'm using all my resources (team councilors) to try and get extra credit projects and extensions whenever I can, but for that one class, I'm just not sure.

Any advice?
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October 30, 2009 01:18 AM
I think that you need to have a talk with your teachers and the people who run your program, Girlieq.

You need a pep-talk but more than that, I think you need a personal evaluation.

You need to hear that you're working and acting like those 8-12 people who graduate. The folks who run the program and teach you know if you are.

I'd be willing to bet (based solely on the fact that you're worrying about this) that you are. I bet that you're handing in all of your assignments early or on time and that you're working hard.

Make an appointment to talk with a teaching dean or program coordinator. If possible make one appointment with a person that you like and one with a person that you don't like. Talk to them, heck - even record their conversation with you on your laptop so that you can listen to it later. But these folks have seen a lot of students fail and succeed. They're there to help.

Even with poor stats like 8-12 graduates, remember that the school wants you to graduate. The admit people who they think will graduate and if they don't graduate, it looks bad on the school. Find out what resources the school has available to help you and use them to succeed.


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Helpful: soundboy, girlieq3000, topaz5433

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October 30, 2009 02:18 AM
Thanks Rob - I'm not too sure what to think, as I've already talked to my program coordinator and they actually gave me an exception to skip my 4th semester and take it over the summer so I can finish school a year early - so I guess they must think I'm doing ok. It's not a heavier courseload, just a little out of order.

I've also talked to a academic advisor who's advice was to re-do my projects and hand them in again (with her help to persuade my teachers to accept them). My problem is that I'm just out of time! I work so hard that I have literally driven myself to sickness more than once this year, and I'm not sure where to fit the extra work in. I'm barely finishing what I have as it is. All anyones told me to do is to work harder, or do more work, really.

Thanks for the advice!

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October 30, 2009 02:34 AM
You're not alone. This is a common problem and what it sounds like they're doing is "stress testing" you to teach you how to handle a heavy load of work. This is a valuable lesson and one that isn't easily taught.

It sounds like you've done the right things, you're communicating with teachers and you're making it work.

I'd deeply consider the 4th semester over the summer option. This might be a good way to finish early, but will it really be the best option for you?

What if you left the summer open? If you fail a class (or eek, two) then you can (likely, check first) do them over the summer. If you pass all of your classes, great! Use the summer courses (if you can) to lighten the course load for next year.

Remember that "exception" is just a fancy term to say that you've asked for help. There's nothing wrong with that. Ask often - ask for everything - the school wants you to pass - work the system and become the best friend of administration.

Also, look into distance / online courses. This is often an easy way to learn during off times. When I was in school, I took as many "fluff" courses (excel, Visual Basic, etc) courses that I knew I would ace online. This allowed me spread out my workload and get better grades in the courses that I had a tougher time with.

The worst thing that you can do is give up. Don't do that. You'll push through it. Remember that after your first job in the industry, future employers don't look your grades - only that you graduated. So if you fail a class and take it over - no biggie. It's a waste of time and money (both not good), but failing a class is just a sign that you need to revise your strategy and figure out the problem.

To me, higher education isn't necessarily about learning how to code, rules of transposition, or flowcharts. It's about learning what it takes to succeed.

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October 30, 2009 03:45 AM
With the whole "rearrangement", I guess I'm a bit of a unique situation. My course is layed out so that we take our first two semesters, then alternate between a semester of co op work, and a semester of school for the next 3 years. The government in Ontario allows us to take only 4 co op terms, and after that the school can no longer endorse them.

I actually started school in Sept 07 and finished my second semester in May 08. Then, for my first co op term, I found a really great job at a huge company (EllisDon) which offered me a 16 month co op instead of 4 months, as there is so much to learn. I sorted everything out with my school that allowed me to join back up with the class that started 1 year later than me. Because I've used up all my co op terms, that time off would be filled with me getting poorer and poorer. It's pretty unlikely I'd get a job in this city for only 4 months (I refuse to work during school for obvious reasons).

Because of the way the schedule is for semesters is layed out, each semester only runs once a year, so the 3rd semester classes only run now, the people a year ahead of me will be in the 5th semester class is spring, and my class will be in for 4th in the summer. They won't allow us to take anything past 3rd online, so there isn't an option to make up courses in the time off - I actually tried to take some while I was working but they wouldn't let me.
So if I were to fail a class now, the next time I could take it is next September. If I failed something in Spring '10, I couldn't take it again until Spring '11.

So I've already had my first job (I was an Applications Developer there) where as most of my classmates have only worked for 4 months, so I do have that advantage. I just don't think taking breaks between is going to get me very far as I'm not going to be able to make up the classes anyways.

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October 30, 2009 03:52 AM
Well... it sure sounds like you have your "head on straight" and your game together. It sounds like you know exactly where you are and where you need to go... you just need to figure out how to fit it all in!

You are in the tough part of school. The best that I can say is really to keep your head up.

I see what you're saying about it being tough to fail a class right now and you're right that in all programs I know of, the last couple of years are filled with in-class hours and assignments without a lot of opportunity for online learning.

Keep your head up and your eye on the prize. I wish that I could say something more specific like "do this to make it easier", but there just isn't a solution. It really is about figuring out how to effectively manage your time and get what counts done.

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October 30, 2009 01:47 AM
In my experience, if this program is truly what you want, just work hard and get through it. You don't have to get straight A's but if you can graduate with a degree, it will be a huge help when it comes to getting a job. I agree that the teachers want you to succeed. If you are struggling with certain classes, it might be worth it to meet with the instructor after class to get extra help. Stick with it if you can and know that it will be worth it in the end.

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Helpful: girlieq3000

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October 30, 2009 02:00 AM
We had a 2/3 failure rate for some of the courses I did at university. It was done on purpose by the lecturers to make sure those that passed were qualified, had the right knowledge and the fortitude to stick it out.

They never said it was going to be easy. And those that stuck it out were given so much help to complete the course after weeding out the dross - day and night our lecturers were there for us because they knew we were worth it.

Sounds like you're worth it too :)

- Do the work
- Turn up to every lecture
- Work in study groups with those that are left
- Ask questions after the lecture if you didn't catch it all
- Ask for past exam questions and assignments if possible if you have time to do more than just class work
- Attend study days if they are available
- Tell the lecturer if you have trouble so they know you are interested and want help!

An example at my university was chemistry. The lecturer told us at the first lesson that he was marking the role ( what? at uni?? ) Yep, it was his way of seeing who was going to pass. He knew after years and years of teaching that anyone who missed lectures wasn't going to pass. He warned us, he warned them all. At the end of semester he put up an unnamed list. Two columns - who attended lectures, who didn't attend and then if they passed. Pretty much any row with a person who didn't go to lectures also had them failing the course. It was plain as day :) No names were needed....
Source(s):
experience at University


Tags: mahalo, study

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October 30, 2009 02:11 AM
Thanks for the tips. I hardly have time to do extra work, but I've been trying. I go to almost every class, with the exception of a handful of times I've skipped a class I'm doing really well at to do work for a class I'm doing poorly at, and only when I'm sure there is nothing important happening. The lectures are all posted online, and I always make sure a friend takes notes that weren't on the slides, and I do the same for them. Some of our teachers take attendance too. In one of our first year classes, missing 5 classes got us kicked out, but they don't do that with our classes now - I think they use it more to determine who is worthy of extensions and things.

I do like the idea of study groups, but it hasn't worked well for me yet. Usually the people doing well don't want to share their ideas, so I usually end up working with someone who has no idea what they're doing. I ask for so much help from friends that I almost feel bad, and our teachers have scheduled "office hours" which are usually less than 3 hours a week for extra help, and some none at all, so it's not always that easy.

Thanks for the advice!

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October 30, 2009 03:13 AM
Study groups can be hard to find. I did two degrees concurrently - one science one law - and the ONLY study groups that worked were those in the science classes, the law students were too secretive and stingy and lied about if they had done their assignments or not - and now you know why I'm not a lawyer :P

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October 30, 2009 03:53 AM
I don't really have anything more to add to what people have already said. I think the answers here are on the mark. You can only do what you can do in the time alloted. I've always believed that earning a degree is more a matter of persistence than anything else, and I just came across this quote which I read and thought of your question. I hope it helps keep you inspired and motivated to continue your studies.

'''Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.'''
Calvin Coolidge
30th president of US (1872 - 1933)
Source(s):
http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/2771.html


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October 30, 2009 05:04 AM
Let me share my very similar story with you to see if it can help. Sometimes just knowing you are not alone can help to boost your mood and motivation.

I can relate. I am taking a triple major in college, have weekly doctors appointments, more than a dozen writing clients that need me weekly, several hours of volunteer work per week, and then all the little things like cleaning, errands etc. It can feel like we are drowning. As each day passes, we feel like we are getting further and further behind. We don't sleep, eat, or see our friends. We forget the little things because we are so focused on the big things. We work so hard we make ourselves sick and end up in an emergency room (it's happened twice now). And most of all, those around us really do not understand the incredible amount of stress we are under.

I still get overwhelmed with everything. Just last week I worked 136 hours in 7 days. That was just work and didn't include school or anything I have to get done. To help alleviate the stress I had to teach myself that I am not perfect, that I am not invincible, and that I will not always walk away unscathed.

We are only human and can only do so much. What greatly helps me is a daily schedule. Every Sunday night I take an hour and write out a daily schedule for the next 7 days. I use different colored highlighters to prioritize. School and work come first. Then volunteering and cleaning the house. Then the smaller things. First thing in the morning I tackle the hardest task for the day so that it is not looming all day long. Then I tackle two smaller tasks, then the next largest task, and so on. These keeps be from completely burning out.

If I finish early, I take advantage of it and rest, read, watch TV, see some friends etc. The key to juggling a very busy life, is finding balance. Yes, this is a lot easier said than done. However, it is not impossible. It took me a good solid year to find balance. Another thing that I'm sure you have heard a hundred times is work smarter not harder. It's cliche, but very true. However, what is smarter for me may be harder for you and vice versa.

You are already on the path to success. You have the drive and desire, not you just need to find your rhythm.

It certainly does take more than hard work. It takes discipline, focus, drive, and perseverance. I think you have these. You just have to fully put them into practice. It won't get easier, but in the end having that degree will make it all worth it.

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