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rondata rondata
 
M$6.30 November 03, 2009 11:38 PM

I'll give anyone five bucks if they can find me a graphic of the internals of a lungless salamander.

I have literally searched high and low. My son is doing a presentation on this, and it's too late to find it for his project (and no, I am NOT doing his homework) but we searched and searched. If you can find it, you get 5 bucks from me :P

I need a DIAGRAM, a pic of internals, not external. Find it, make money :)
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krazykatie krazykatie
 
November 03, 2009 11:44 PM
Does this suffice, or are you looking for something more specific?

http://www.biokids.umich.edu/files/16994/salamander_organs_medium.jpg
 
It was fair to choose no best answer
Because as the question clearly states, the $5 is offered for a diagram of a lungless salamander, and if you read some of the answers provided you would realise it was a time sensitive issue.
 
 


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rondata rondata
 
November 03, 2009 11:50 PM
We have seen that one, but that one points to a LUNG. These salamanders have no lungs and breathe through their skin. He did the project without the diagram which was a requirement, so I know his grade will fall based on that alone. That's why I'm trying to find one!

Read more: http://animals.jrank.org/pages/302/Lungless-Salamanders-Plethodontidae-PHYSICAL-CHARACTERISTICS.html#ixzz0VqLrMSYi

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krazykatie krazykatie
 
November 04, 2009 12:04 AM
hmm... well i'll keep looking for you, but I suppose worst case scenario you could doctor that one to erase the lung, perhaps?

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krazykatie krazykatie
 
November 04, 2009 12:08 AM
It seems strange that there isn't atleast one diagram of something so anatomically unique! This has officially become personal...

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rondata rondata
 
November 04, 2009 12:20 AM
Don't feel bad, cause we couldn't find one either. Even with books at the library :(

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rondata rondata
 
November 04, 2009 12:24 AM
I thought about removing the lung, but the whole internals must be based on how they breath. This has to include gills or something right? if we used that, it wouldn't be correct. Yes, it is a bitch. I've tried every search engine known to man. I cannot believe it does not exist!! :/

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brian san brian san
 
November 04, 2009 01:28 AM
I tried a bit and didn't have any luck finding a diagram (I also checked for one from the page that provides the diagram above, but they have no images for lungless salamanders).

Wikipedia has a page on Lungless Salamanders and the "Redback Salamander" is a common type of Lungless Salamander, but no luck on pictures. They do "breathe" through their skin according to the resources above. Hope that helps a bit.

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krazykatie krazykatie
 
November 04, 2009 01:32 AM
Ok, I found a test with a diagram of counter-current exchange, but you have to download it, here is the link:

http://www.dso.iastate.edu/asc/si/documentdb/fall_2009/A_ECL_365_Palacios_jslavik_Week_5.1_answers.docx

It's closer, but i'm still searching...

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rondata rondata
 
November 04, 2009 12:29 PM
That explains it in great detail, but the project required "Diagram of anatomy of amphibian" :/ We found lots of info about how they breath, and he was able to include that but we just could not find a diagram for one (such as the one you originally posted) :/ (but lungless)

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kty2777 kty2777
 
November 04, 2009 12:22 AM
TRY these two sites to see if the images are suitable. I think the second one might be OK but have a look :)

http://departments.juniata.edu/biology/vertzoo/amphibian_lab.htm
- has a lot of amphibian diagrams and information

http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/342notes8.html
Comparative study with diagrams

I'll keep hunting too - you could refine your search to 'respiration' or 'comparative' anatomy etc which will help reduce the number of sites you have to search through.

I also did a few image searches in Google asking for 'Line Art' images and 'black and white' to see if that brought back more diagrams than photos

EDIT - another comparative site, a few weird images that you might be able to use ( might only )
http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/342notes6.htm
 
It was fair to choose no best answer
We didn't find what you wanted, we came close but no cigar. Thanks for acknowledging our efforts
 
 


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rondata rondata
 
November 04, 2009 12:28 AM
those are nice but only shows lungs.. we needed the whole anatomy including the fact that they don't have lungs. I cannot believe this does not exist!

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kty2777 kty2777
 
November 04, 2009 12:37 AM
this has an explanation - http://www.cottagebuddy.com/cottage_resources/en/Lungless_salamander at the beginning of the page. You will also find many articles but they are complicated to read :(

I think most of the comparative anatomy sites do explain the differences in some way.

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kty2777 kty2777
 
November 04, 2009 12:40 AM
EDIT 2
try this one for life cycle and picture - you may have to combine a few to get exactly what you want....but I keep looking
http://fisc.er.usgs.gov/c1258_Dodd/html/life_history_and_species_richn.html

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rondata rondata
 
November 04, 2009 01:19 AM
kty227, that was very close but we needed all internals such as the first graphic posted. This is the closest we've seen though, I didn't even find this link :) so you're in the running, unless someone gives me exactly what I was looking for! Close though :) VERY close

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kty2777 kty2777
 
November 04, 2009 01:29 AM
I'm still hunting - expanding search criteria and using the scientific names is getting a few new hits but no image sketches

IF you don't find anything online I've found a journal that you might find in the library - Journal of Morphology
Volume 198 Issue 2, Pages 243 - 255

Published Online: 6 Feb 2005

Copyright © 2009 Wiley-Liss, Inc., A Wiley Company

The online extract looked promising but its only an extract without images

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kty2777 kty2777
 
November 04, 2009 02:35 AM
This searching crashed Firefox, I've never had that happen before hahaha wow I keep coming across the same images and sites now. Used multiple search engines but I think I've reached my limit of new hits. Did learn heaps about salamanders and found plenty of gruesome slides and dissections - real pics yuk!

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rondata rondata
 
November 04, 2009 12:32 PM
I think it's a conspiracy. The government doesn't want us to know what these creatures look like because they've been genetically altered :P haha. We originally tried to combine pictures and he even tried to draw his own, but with no example of a real one, he didn't want it to be wrong and took it out. I think, when he presents he can say that he couldn't find a graphic on the web or in a book and we didn't want his teacher to come back and say "yes you could have, and here it is" .. :/

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cosmopinki... cosmopinki...
 
November 04, 2009 01:40 AM
This is the closest thing I could find. I know it wasn't what you was looking for. Maybe you need to pay someone 5.00 to draw one haha. goodluck

http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/RITCHISO/gasexchange.gif

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rondata rondata
 
November 04, 2009 01:50 AM
I was hoping that folks could find something I could not. I truly feel that it does not exist! Cause I am a search master, I searched high and low under the subject, the scientific name etc - both my son and I spent the whole day looking at links. I don't think what we are looking for is out there. Not even in BOOKS!

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silverhamm... silverhamm...
 
November 04, 2009 05:32 AM - New Source
Hopefully the book "The Biology of Plethodontid Salamanders" will have what you need. I just can't scan & link the image for you. :)

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rondata rondata
 
November 04, 2009 12:33 PM
I'm going to see if I can find that book at the library tomorrow

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buddawiggi buddawiggi
 
November 04, 2009 02:18 AM
This pdf ~~

http://herpetology.tamu.edu/Fitzgerald/Teaching_files/315/2008%20Diversity%20and%20Life%20History%20of%20Salamanders%20%28Caudata%29.pdf

~~has this diagram near the bottom of the document

I found this pdf searching here ~ http://www.scirus.com/srsapp/

I'm having as much trouble as you and the rest of us with this

Source(s):
http://herpetology.tamu.edu/Fitzgerald/Teaching_files/315/2008%20Diversity%...

 
It was fair to choose no best answer
That was tough! ~~~ I love mysteries like that.

Just let me know if you have another mystery for me and I will be happy to go searching and see what I can find.
 
 


Tags: salamanders

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krazykatie krazykatie
 
November 04, 2009 04:07 AM
Closest I've seen!

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silverhamm... silverhamm...
 
November 04, 2009 03:33 AM
They must be shy.

http://www.herplit.com/contents/image3.gif

Try getting hold of a copy of this book:

"The Biology of Plethodontid Salamanders"

http://books.google.com/books?id=VLPJx7O1ROwC&pg=PA124&lpg=PA124&dq=plethodontid+organs&source=bl&ots=o-mQ6sFW9V&sig=2XlBeigIuiQVtyIaAC_vi-KSCtA&hl=en&ei=OvTwSpXQCoPYNaGb5YcO&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=14&ved=0CGEQ6AEwDQ#v=onepage&q=plethodontid%20organs&f=false

From the preview there are many diagrams that might be useful.

I found MANY images of the anatomy of their tongue and dissections of their sexual organs/tail. But no internal organ ones online.

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buddawiggi buddawiggi
 
November 04, 2009 03:47 AM
Me too with the tongue and testes of these wily little creatures .. there is a lot of info on those two subjects.

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krazykatie krazykatie
 
November 04, 2009 04:11 AM
ya that's what I was mainly getting too... tongue and reproductive information

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silverhamm... silverhamm...
 
November 04, 2009 05:30 AM
I even found a lungless frog dissection. But not the salamander.

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rpotter rpotter
 
November 04, 2009 06:23 AM
Lungless salamanders or "Plethodontidae"

Example X-Ray:
http://digimorph.org/specimens/Thorius_aureus/

List of salamanders in this family:
http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/classification/Plethodontidae.html#Plethodontidae

X-Ray Images: Thorius Aureus
http://digimorph.org/library/sphider/search.php?query=Plethodontidae&search=1

Cross reference the names on the list of salamanders in this family, with the x-ray image results found at digimorph.org

These photos can also be traced in an illustration program such as "Adobe Illustrator" to turn them into scalable vector graphics.

Hope it helps!
Source(s):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lungless_salamander
http://digimorph.org/library/sphider/search.php?query=Plethodontidae&se...

http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/classification/Plethodo...

http://www.adobe.com/products/illustrator/


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magnilavis magnilavis
 
November 04, 2009 03:23 PM
Is these pictures useful for you?


Source(s):
http://www.thorp.k12.wi.us/~steinbach/limnology_oceanography/student_work/S...
http://fisc.er.usgs.gov/c1258_Dodd/html/life_history_and_species_richn.html
http://www.eoearth.org/article/Amphibian_families


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rondata rondata
 
November 04, 2009 04:24 PM
This would be great if it showed the insides similar to the graphic posted by krazykitty.

Someone here suggested a book, I have to go through all these answers and see if I can find it at the library :)

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albanian albanian
 
November 04, 2009 04:10 PM
The best known lungless salamander (there are lots of kinds) is the Axolotl. That one is a favorite of biologists for a number of reasons. There is another family of lungless salamanders specifically called lungless salamanders but I think for your purposes the Axolotl is fine.

here is a diagram of one ("look ma no lungs!"):
insides:
http://www.axolotl.org/images/physiology/Internal_Structure.jpg

and outsides:
http://www.axolotl.org/images/physiology/External_Structure.jpg

You can even keep them as pets if you like.

Source(s):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axolotl
http://www.axolotl.org/


Tags: axolotl, salamander

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rondata rondata
 
November 04, 2009 04:19 PM
So close, but we didn't do the axolotl. This looks like something that lives in the water perhaps? And according to wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axolotl it does have lungs. I thought maybe we could have used it if they were similar, but they actually don't look similar at all :(

His report was on The Plethodontidae. I did think that this was the only lungless salamander: wiki info here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lungless_salamander

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rondata rondata
 
November 04, 2009 04:24 PM
That last picture is adorable :) he looks like he's smiling

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albanian albanian
 
November 04, 2009 04:31 PM
It's not one of the Plethodontidae but it is a salamander. I believe the internal organs will be in all the same places. It looks more like the other salamanders as an adult, but it does not become an adult, normally, which is one of the interesting and handy things about it.

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rondata rondata
 
November 04, 2009 04:40 PM
If it didn't have the gills, I think I might use it, but ours doesn't have gills. Thank you for looking though, when I first saw the picture, I thought OMG, that's it! For sure the closest by far :)

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bkalimasov bkalimasov
 
November 04, 2009 11:41 PM
What a difficult question!. Perhaps this results useful?

Source(s):
http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/342notes8.html


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