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I just did an interview with a therapist who wrote a book about developing character for boys/men. We talked about this (and he talks about it in his book "Growing Balls" by David Hafter).
There are a great number of reasons for this. Some girls believe that they deserve to be treated bad. Some girls believe that this is the way to show love because of examples in their own history (re: parents).
Primarily, I think that girls are looking for something exciting. They can't deal with their own... stuff... so, as a distraction, they look for the "bad boy". A "nice guy" with character is... BORING!
Little do they know... they're setting themselves up for future pain. Men with character - the boring ones - are also the ones who are stable and know what love is all about.
(Here's the podcast blog: http://www.kivaspirit.org/blog/?p=376 or on iTunes (Episode 18): http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=284995553)
There are a great number of reasons for this. Some girls believe that they deserve to be treated bad. Some girls believe that this is the way to show love because of examples in their own history (re: parents).
Primarily, I think that girls are looking for something exciting. They can't deal with their own... stuff... so, as a distraction, they look for the "bad boy". A "nice guy" with character is... BORING!
Little do they know... they're setting themselves up for future pain. Men with character - the boring ones - are also the ones who are stable and know what love is all about.
(Here's the podcast blog: http://www.kivaspirit.org/blog/?p=376 or on iTunes (Episode 18): http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=284995553)
voted helpful: spoon
Saying that girls "only" go out with guys that are jerks is a rather large generalization... I have to say that this is most certainly not always true as I don't consider myself a jerk (women deserve respect) and yet dating isn't a problem for me...
I image we will see a quality response from Dr.Matt on this one (the standards are now set rather high Matt... don't let me down lol)
I image we will see a quality response from Dr.Matt on this one (the standards are now set rather high Matt... don't let me down lol)
First, this is a very loaded question. It assume that girls only go out with guys who are not only jerks but mistreat them.
1. Jerk is a relative term. There are some guys that rape and abuse their significant others, and there are some guys that are "jerks" for looking at other girls, or poking fun (e.g. "Kiss my ass!" "That would take all night!") Or, a guy may be a jerk to other guys and girls but not to his significant other, or just a "jerk" in general (maybe arrogant and narcissistic). So I think you need to give us a clearer idea of what you mean by "jerk."
2. "Treat them bad." Again, I think this is relative; some guys support their wives, put them in Range Rovers, let them rack up credit card debt, and then think they are being treated "badly" because a guy puts his foot down. Or, again, a guy may be physically and emotionally abusing a woman. So, I think we need clarification.
3. I can't tell if this question is being asked by a girl or a guy, so I am not sure how to tailor this response.
So let's take a general case. A girl likes a "bad boy" type of guy. Why? Here are some guesses.
A. The guy has low self-esteem and behaves like a prick to everyone, including girls.
B. People tend to want what they can't have, and may see this type of guy as a challenge. "If only I can win him over... I know there is a good person inside him." It is like Jurassic Park (Family Guy), "T.Rex (Toby Keith) doesn't want to be fed, he wants to hunt!" For some girls, a guy that is obsessed with her seems too easy (and sometimes creepy).
C. A girl may have low self-esteem and feel that this is the "best she can do." I have seen it so many times, or heard, "He is too nice to me." Yeah, it sounds like a line and they may even think it is, but sometimes they are speaking the truth without even knowing it.
D. Sometimes, after remaining with a jerk guy, a girl has lost her friends and alienated her family, and the jerk may be "all she has left."
E. A lot of women seem to have some sort of Oedipal pre-adolescent complex. They want to solve the "problems" or "issues" their guy has, and play psychologist, and groom them into something they want, like a mother.
F. If the guy doesn't have any major issues, a girl often thinks the relationship is boring and starts causing problems just for the sake of some friction.
Regardless, girls don't want someone who is a weak pushover. They are the ones that end up being like Ducky from Pretty in Pink. I should say, again, your question is fallacious, and in the end, the jerk may end up old, fat, and alone, while the "sweet" guy is making six figures and spending the time he would be constantly trying to pick up girls at the gym, knowing he has a great girl at home.
Excuse my somewhat shallow and partially non-gender-equal response.
1. Jerk is a relative term. There are some guys that rape and abuse their significant others, and there are some guys that are "jerks" for looking at other girls, or poking fun (e.g. "Kiss my ass!" "That would take all night!") Or, a guy may be a jerk to other guys and girls but not to his significant other, or just a "jerk" in general (maybe arrogant and narcissistic). So I think you need to give us a clearer idea of what you mean by "jerk."
2. "Treat them bad." Again, I think this is relative; some guys support their wives, put them in Range Rovers, let them rack up credit card debt, and then think they are being treated "badly" because a guy puts his foot down. Or, again, a guy may be physically and emotionally abusing a woman. So, I think we need clarification.
3. I can't tell if this question is being asked by a girl or a guy, so I am not sure how to tailor this response.
So let's take a general case. A girl likes a "bad boy" type of guy. Why? Here are some guesses.
A. The guy has low self-esteem and behaves like a prick to everyone, including girls.
B. People tend to want what they can't have, and may see this type of guy as a challenge. "If only I can win him over... I know there is a good person inside him." It is like Jurassic Park (Family Guy), "T.Rex (Toby Keith) doesn't want to be fed, he wants to hunt!" For some girls, a guy that is obsessed with her seems too easy (and sometimes creepy).
C. A girl may have low self-esteem and feel that this is the "best she can do." I have seen it so many times, or heard, "He is too nice to me." Yeah, it sounds like a line and they may even think it is, but sometimes they are speaking the truth without even knowing it.
D. Sometimes, after remaining with a jerk guy, a girl has lost her friends and alienated her family, and the jerk may be "all she has left."
E. A lot of women seem to have some sort of Oedipal pre-adolescent complex. They want to solve the "problems" or "issues" their guy has, and play psychologist, and groom them into something they want, like a mother.
F. If the guy doesn't have any major issues, a girl often thinks the relationship is boring and starts causing problems just for the sake of some friction.
Regardless, girls don't want someone who is a weak pushover. They are the ones that end up being like Ducky from Pretty in Pink. I should say, again, your question is fallacious, and in the end, the jerk may end up old, fat, and alone, while the "sweet" guy is making six figures and spending the time he would be constantly trying to pick up girls at the gym, knowing he has a great girl at home.
Excuse my somewhat shallow and partially non-gender-equal response.
Voted as best: jellylala
Not all girls go out with bad guys..But most go out with them because they feel they love the person or they feel that the person they are with is the best they are going to get in life and its pointless for them to leave.
This question, as a few other answerers alluded to, is based on some fundamental misconceptions. Namely, that if you are a Nice Person, you deserve to have romantic relationships. Therefore, if no women are actually interested in dating you, it must mean they don't like "Nice People" like you and prefer "jerks." In truth, women, just like men, want to be with people who are attractive to them and interesting.
Rather than thinking about it in terms of Nice People vs. Jerks, I think you should focus on 2 things:
(1) Putting yourself out there in the world without expectations that things will necessarily go your way, and just seeing what develops naturally.
(2) Making yourself more attractive to women. This doesn't mean acting like a "jerk," but it does mean taking care of yourself and not coming off as desperate. And the best way to not seem desperate is to not be desperate - to develop your own life and your own interests, to become INTERESTING, all on your own. Do this, and you'll have no problem meeting and attracting people.
Rather than thinking about it in terms of Nice People vs. Jerks, I think you should focus on 2 things:
(1) Putting yourself out there in the world without expectations that things will necessarily go your way, and just seeing what develops naturally.
(2) Making yourself more attractive to women. This doesn't mean acting like a "jerk," but it does mean taking care of yourself and not coming off as desperate. And the best way to not seem desperate is to not be desperate - to develop your own life and your own interests, to become INTERESTING, all on your own. Do this, and you'll have no problem meeting and attracting people.
voted helpful: mrnemo
I disagree with some of this (but won't refute it). I think there ARE men out there that have the "bad boy" image and there are women who are attracted to that image.
A lot of this has to do with the definition of bad. There are girls who are attracted to men who are truly bad. The guy who casually cheats on his woman. The guy who gets drunk knowing that he will get violent. The guy who demeans other people for reasons that frankly the rest of us don't care about. The racist. I have known girls who are attracted to guy like that, and my reaction is to stay as far away from them as possible.
Then there are girls who are attracted to guys who are considered bad because they are rule breakers and they often skirt the law. I think that a lot of those girls are attracted to those guys because they are raised in a traditional manner that say that girls are made of "sugar and spice and everything nice."
For example, hypothetically, there might be a girl who was raised very traditionally by her immigrant grandparents. Maybe she had to work everyday, from the time that she was little, in their business. Maybe she was expected to get great grades, join the student council, the temple student organization, and do other good works. Maybe when she went to college, she was expected to join student service organizations, serve in student government, be appointed to committees that ran the college and frankly never date. Perhaps she carried a aura of aloofness that tended to put off nice guys.
Now, suppose a girl like that met a dope smoking, rule breaking, anti-establishment type of guy. Suppose to her astonishment that she was suddenly being pursued by this guy who made clear that his intention was to get her into his bed as soon as possible. Suppose she was surprised by his frank crudity when he said things like, "Please don't wear a bra so I can feel your tits better."
She might succumb to a guy who intrigued her. She might find that with him, she didn't have to be "Little Miss Perfect," she only had to be, "Little Miss Sex Kitten." This might be a new and interesting role for her. She might find that she liked playing house.
Other people might tsk tsk, seeing it sad that such as sweet innocent child as her had fallen for such a no-account.
The real question is whether the guy, having seduced the girl, chalks up another notch on his bedpost or realizes that this is the best thing that has ever happened to him. If he realizes that this is the best thing that has ever happened to him, he and the girl might make a deal. You have the career and I will stay out of jail.
Guys like that sometimes treat their girls badly, but it is usually not because they are naturally mean, but because they are immature. See drmatt's comments. Most boys, who are not very nice, grow up. They become men. No, not good men, but not bad men. Just men. Occasionally they are not very nice to their girls, but they are not bad to them either. They don't cheat. They remember anniversaries and birthdays. They make half way decent Dads. They buy flowers and candy sometimes for their girls.
A girl like that and a guy like that just might have a fairly happy life together.
And they raise their children to never never be like the guy who is truly bad.
Then there are girls who are attracted to guys who are considered bad because they are rule breakers and they often skirt the law. I think that a lot of those girls are attracted to those guys because they are raised in a traditional manner that say that girls are made of "sugar and spice and everything nice."
For example, hypothetically, there might be a girl who was raised very traditionally by her immigrant grandparents. Maybe she had to work everyday, from the time that she was little, in their business. Maybe she was expected to get great grades, join the student council, the temple student organization, and do other good works. Maybe when she went to college, she was expected to join student service organizations, serve in student government, be appointed to committees that ran the college and frankly never date. Perhaps she carried a aura of aloofness that tended to put off nice guys.
Now, suppose a girl like that met a dope smoking, rule breaking, anti-establishment type of guy. Suppose to her astonishment that she was suddenly being pursued by this guy who made clear that his intention was to get her into his bed as soon as possible. Suppose she was surprised by his frank crudity when he said things like, "Please don't wear a bra so I can feel your tits better."
She might succumb to a guy who intrigued her. She might find that with him, she didn't have to be "Little Miss Perfect," she only had to be, "Little Miss Sex Kitten." This might be a new and interesting role for her. She might find that she liked playing house.
Other people might tsk tsk, seeing it sad that such as sweet innocent child as her had fallen for such a no-account.
The real question is whether the guy, having seduced the girl, chalks up another notch on his bedpost or realizes that this is the best thing that has ever happened to him. If he realizes that this is the best thing that has ever happened to him, he and the girl might make a deal. You have the career and I will stay out of jail.
Guys like that sometimes treat their girls badly, but it is usually not because they are naturally mean, but because they are immature. See drmatt's comments. Most boys, who are not very nice, grow up. They become men. No, not good men, but not bad men. Just men. Occasionally they are not very nice to their girls, but they are not bad to them either. They don't cheat. They remember anniversaries and birthdays. They make half way decent Dads. They buy flowers and candy sometimes for their girls.
A girl like that and a guy like that just might have a fairly happy life together.
And they raise their children to never never be like the guy who is truly bad.
A lot of girls have low self esteems, typically from poor relationships with their fathers, and are looking for attention from anywhere. When a guy treats them badly, they put up with it to keep the relationship and sometimes convince themselves that if they were better, cuter, whatever, he would treat them better.
A couple tips in the book "Strong Fathers, Strong Daughters" remind fathers that they are their daughters first love (not in a perverted way) and that they should treat their daughters how they want their future husbands to treat them. Girls should be treated with respect, as should guys, and if you are dating someone who doesn't respect you, dumb him/her.
A couple tips in the book "Strong Fathers, Strong Daughters" remind fathers that they are their daughters first love (not in a perverted way) and that they should treat their daughters how they want their future husbands to treat them. Girls should be treated with respect, as should guys, and if you are dating someone who doesn't respect you, dumb him/her.
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I've found that age really does make a difference (with some exceptions of course) when dating, as women go through relationships they start to experience that 'future pain' and realize the trend comes from the "bad boy".
Now about your comment about the nice guy with character being stable... does that mean as the nice guy with character I have to grow up and be stable? (*sings* I don't wanna grow up... I'm a Toys-R-Us kid...) LOL kidding on that, but you bring up a great point for people to consider. In the long run being the "nice guy" will likely result in a more stable life with TRUE love instead of forced love that many people seem to be in.
As David Hafter says in his book, before the age of 25ish, boys have little character and are growing their balls. That's fine! As long as you realize this... enjoy it. But, if you want to live a life of integrity and character, you'll have to let go of this behavior at some point. And... DON'T GET TRAPPED by those girls out there that also have little character.
I highly recommend Growing Balls to ALL men, but especially those between 18 and 25.