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I personally can't think of a reason why an armed officer would be forced to beat a girl like that.
If she was being agressive and he felt that he needed to assert force to protect himself, then it would be justified in my mind.
Public perception is a powerful thing and we don't really know anything about the circumstances of this event. It's a good thing that Internal Affairs will carefully review his actions. They will base their investigation on real facts and not the perception that the public will.
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This doesn't change my opinion at all. He could have killed her...she could have a slow brain bleed from those hits, and she could die even months later from that.
He needs to be gone. No matter how "lippy" she got, no matter if she had pitched a shoe at him instead of merely kicking it off (without much force), she didn't deserve that much force. She obviously uses a lot of attention-seeking behavior, so locking her up and ignoring her would have been a lot more effective than what he did.
I think it's telling that his own spokesman wouldn't vouch for him. I'm also surprised that they didn't get her more medical care. They should watch her carefully, and she really should have her head checked for fractures, bleeds etc.
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"Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely"
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--
Excessive force by a law enforcement officers is a violation of a person's rights. Excessive force is not subject to a precise definition, but it is generally beyond the force a reasonable and prudent law enforcement officer would use under the circumstances. In this case a cell with a support officer in close proximity.
Force should be used in only the minimum amount needed to achieve a legitimate purpose. From what was seen there was no attempt to verbally direct the prisoner and no visual cues to indicate a directive given by the officer. He reacted (Provoked or not) to the situation with a violent assault using force well in excess of what was required for the situation he was presented with to be resolved.
In this case the officer used excessive force.
--
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If you don't kick him out after him beating this girl, there WILL be another victim.
Yes it changes my opinion. It shows that this wasn't a misunderstanding or he wasn't a victim of circumstances...the problem is Paul, and he needs to spend time behind bars (your information shows he should have already).
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Of course, cops do frequently rub me the wrong way (in spite of nearly everyone in my family being a cop) but I have to say, in all fairness, unless you put on a bullet proof vest for a living every day, don't be so hasty to judge, lest you prove to be as devoid of empathy as I am.
Yeah, what this guy did was excessive. There's no way to justify the behavior. But I don't think that makes him an unstable person. I just think he's doing a piss poor job managing the stress inherent to his position in law enforcement.
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And yes, my opinion about the case still stands: the way he treated that girl was absolutely unacceptable, and he should be fired now instead. Better late than never, hand over the badge and sign up for an anger management class.
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Answered Question
M$1
March 01, 2009 09:28 PM
Does your opinion about the deputy accused of assaulting a 15 year old girl change knowing his history?
Yesterday Jeff Hoard asked the question about whether or not Paul Schene should be guilty of assault:
http://www.mahalo.com/answers/legal/should-this-officer-be-found-guilty-for-assault
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cl67FmVRjYs&eurl=http://www.mahalo.com/Paul_Schene
I answered, but did not know at the time that Schene has a history of aggression. In 2006, Schene shot an unarmed man, Pedro Jo, after a high-speed chase. In the two articles that I read about the story, the events are unclear.
According to Schene, after a struggle with Jo broke off, Jo started heading toward his car. Fearing he might have a gun in the car, Schene drew his weapon and fired. Not once, but eleven times. Jo died.
What is interesting, is that at the time Jo's brother felt that Schene had fired "out of anger."
On another occasion in 2002, Schene shot another unarmed man after a high-speed chase who was approaching him. In that case, the man got out of his car and approached Schene and Schene fired three shots, hitting the man in the chest, arm and leg.
Do you think the other two cases should be reopened and examined?
Is this evidence that Paul Schene simply was not cut out for the job and has a history or reacting with more force than necessary?
Schene said he thought the man was drunk, but did not spell alcohol.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/273183_copshooting08.html
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/302017_inquest01.html
http://www.mahalo.com/answers/legal/should-this-officer-be-found-guilty-for-assault
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cl67FmVRjYs&eurl=http://www.mahalo.com/Paul_Schene
I answered, but did not know at the time that Schene has a history of aggression. In 2006, Schene shot an unarmed man, Pedro Jo, after a high-speed chase. In the two articles that I read about the story, the events are unclear.
According to Schene, after a struggle with Jo broke off, Jo started heading toward his car. Fearing he might have a gun in the car, Schene drew his weapon and fired. Not once, but eleven times. Jo died.
What is interesting, is that at the time Jo's brother felt that Schene had fired "out of anger."
On another occasion in 2002, Schene shot another unarmed man after a high-speed chase who was approaching him. In that case, the man got out of his car and approached Schene and Schene fired three shots, hitting the man in the chest, arm and leg.
Do you think the other two cases should be reopened and examined?
Is this evidence that Paul Schene simply was not cut out for the job and has a history or reacting with more force than necessary?
Schene said he thought the man was drunk, but did not spell alcohol.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/273183_copshooting08.html
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/302017_inquest01.html
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Best Answer Chosen by Asker
| March 02, 2009 01:19 AM |
If she was being agressive and he felt that he needed to assert force to protect himself, then it would be justified in my mind.
Public perception is a powerful thing and we don't really know anything about the circumstances of this event. It's a good thing that Internal Affairs will carefully review his actions. They will base their investigation on real facts and not the perception that the public will.
| Asker's Rating: |
• A lot of good answers, so it was hard to pick.
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Other Answers (8)
March 01, 2009 09:35 PM
This only reinforces what I thought of it. It seemed like a disgustingly excessive use of force, but at the same time, I wondered if there was perhaps more context. Now, I'm certain that this man has issues and should not be allowed to continue his duties.
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March 01, 2009 09:58 PM
Looks to me like he hit her in the head, or maybe the neck. This doesn't change my opinion at all. He could have killed her...she could have a slow brain bleed from those hits, and she could die even months later from that.
He needs to be gone. No matter how "lippy" she got, no matter if she had pitched a shoe at him instead of merely kicking it off (without much force), she didn't deserve that much force. She obviously uses a lot of attention-seeking behavior, so locking her up and ignoring her would have been a lot more effective than what he did.
I think it's telling that his own spokesman wouldn't vouch for him. I'm also surprised that they didn't get her more medical care. They should watch her carefully, and she really should have her head checked for fractures, bleeds etc.
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March 02, 2009 03:21 AM
Yeah he definitely needs to go. My only problem is if he is fired for excessive force that opens up all his other cases. So righteous busts now can be overturned even though they are justified. So he most likely will have more criminals back on the street because of the idiot
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March 02, 2009 05:04 AM
This guy is on paid leave. He's going to get a slap on the wrist and that is about it.
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March 01, 2009 10:24 PM
All this extra information shows is that this deputy is only more unstable than was previously thought. The idea that he could beat a harmless girl and be acting out of self-defense or in some other protective way is ridiculous. With the background that he has, it is nigh on impossible to believe that his assaulting of a 15 year old girl was on accident. Additional background simply further proves his guilt in this case. "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely"
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March 01, 2009 10:39 PM
No my opinion has not changed and I am going to post my comment from the other thread here so people know my position. --
Excessive force by a law enforcement officers is a violation of a person's rights. Excessive force is not subject to a precise definition, but it is generally beyond the force a reasonable and prudent law enforcement officer would use under the circumstances. In this case a cell with a support officer in close proximity.
Force should be used in only the minimum amount needed to achieve a legitimate purpose. From what was seen there was no attempt to verbally direct the prisoner and no visual cues to indicate a directive given by the officer. He reacted (Provoked or not) to the situation with a violent assault using force well in excess of what was required for the situation he was presented with to be resolved.
In this case the officer used excessive force.
--
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March 01, 2009 11:42 PM
As I said yesterday, this is why police who abuse their power should be thrown out of the force after their first offense! If you don't kick him out after him beating this girl, there WILL be another victim.
Yes it changes my opinion. It shows that this wasn't a misunderstanding or he wasn't a victim of circumstances...the problem is Paul, and he needs to spend time behind bars (your information shows he should have already).
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March 02, 2009 05:16 AM
Maybe I'm just a heartless bastard who's incapable of empathy, but am I the only one who watched that video and immediately thought, "Well... I'll bet that smart mouthed %&#$ didn't give him any more sass." Of course, cops do frequently rub me the wrong way (in spite of nearly everyone in my family being a cop) but I have to say, in all fairness, unless you put on a bullet proof vest for a living every day, don't be so hasty to judge, lest you prove to be as devoid of empathy as I am.
Yeah, what this guy did was excessive. There's no way to justify the behavior. But I don't think that makes him an unstable person. I just think he's doing a piss poor job managing the stress inherent to his position in law enforcement.
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March 02, 2009 05:20 AM
Where's the stress when you're with another police officer, in the police station, punching a 15 year old girl who is handcuffed on the ground!!
I understand, and respect, the stress involved with police officers every day. And if this were a high speed pursuit or another intense conflict with an unstable person, maybe I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.
But instead now we find out he's got a history of abuse!
This man is a police officer, who should be held to a higher standard than the people he is arresting.
Unacceptable...
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I understand, and respect, the stress involved with police officers every day. And if this were a high speed pursuit or another intense conflict with an unstable person, maybe I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.
But instead now we find out he's got a history of abuse!
This man is a police officer, who should be held to a higher standard than the people he is arresting.
Unacceptable...
March 02, 2009 05:33 AM
Let me be clear that I don't think there's any imaginable circumstance in which this man would have been justified in doing what he did. That being said, my sympathy for the girl is limited. She obviously ran afoul of the law and moronically thought that berating the guys with guns and clubs was somehow going to help her situation. She was being dumb, and although she unquestionably got more for her mistake than she deserved, I just don't feel too sorry for dumb people.
But my biggest point is that it is very VERY easy for people to jump on a train of indignation and ride it down this guy's throat. Now this guy was being dumb, so I don't have too much sympathy for him either. But anytime I see that train of Righteous Rage start to roll, my instinct is to wonder how many on the train would have behaved the same way given the same circumstances.
That's what I meant about the stresses of wearing a bullet proof vest every day.
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But my biggest point is that it is very VERY easy for people to jump on a train of indignation and ride it down this guy's throat. Now this guy was being dumb, so I don't have too much sympathy for him either. But anytime I see that train of Righteous Rage start to roll, my instinct is to wonder how many on the train would have behaved the same way given the same circumstances.
That's what I meant about the stresses of wearing a bullet proof vest every day.
March 03, 2009 08:44 AM
My opinion: He should have been fired after he shot that guy 11 times. Talk about excessive! And yes, my opinion about the case still stands: the way he treated that girl was absolutely unacceptable, and he should be fired now instead. Better late than never, hand over the badge and sign up for an anger management class.
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But, we only have a very limited amount of information to form an opinion on. I don't want to toss up a cliche, but "innocent until proven guilty" is something that a lot of people quickly dismiss in favour of gossip and conversation.
Based on that video (and that video alone), I think that he should not only be fired but convicted of assault charges. However, I know that I don't have anywhere close to an adequate amount of information to even hypothesize about his reasoning.