Can anyone explain the logic behind being pro-life except for rape and incest?
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M$4 Answers
Keep in mind that these cases are only about 1% of all abortions (3rd source below).
Most prolifers who are consistent have the logic that abortion in cases of rape/incest is punishing the mother twice (the intial crime, and then increased chance of breast cancer and endometriosis from the abortion) and an innocent bystander (the child).
There are also a surprising number of people whose voices have not been heard in the national media who've carried the babies and then given them up for adoption. I found a whole blogroll of these people and it's interesting reading.
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M$
But when it comes to the subject or rape and when a person didn't have a choice, there is no way to continue to support their believe of pro-life without telling the person to basically deal with it.
So my answer is that it just sounds good to say that abortion is okay in the cases of rape and incest for pro-life advocates, because they still believe that the "child" should be able to live but they can't bring themselves to tell those who've been raped to deal with it. That's just my opinion.
Debate team
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M$
I think you are right that the idea is that it's not the mother's fault, so they should not be punished. Obvious flaws with that are that 1. A woman could use birth control and get pregnant. Is that her fault? and 2. Incest that is consensual is still the woman's fault. So the standard is illogical.
But I can tell you as a former pro-life activist (I'm not currently pro-life but I can still explain that opinion from an inside point of view since it used to be mine), that standpoint is frowned upon by a lot of others. They believe that ALL life is precious, from conception until natural death, and it doesn't make a difference how the child was conceived or what defects the child will be born with. It doesn't change the fact that, to them, it's still a child.
(I edited this from my original answer... I thought the question was saying explain being pro-life, I didn't catch that it's explain being "pro-life except rape and incest." Whoops, sorry!)
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M$
And the argument about life beginning at conception is absurd too. Where is there a beginning? You have the two people, they're both alive. Their respective sex cells are alive. When a sperm and egg join, the result is alive. Life started about a billion years ago, and it's an ongoing process.
The reason abortion is not murder is because murder only applies to human BEINGS, with "being" being the operative word. Being a "being" means being (phew!) an individual. An embryo/fetus is not an individual--it is a PART of the woman. Until it reaches the point where it could be biologically separated (meaning it no longer relies on the life-sustaining processes of the woman to sustain itself) without perishing, it is NOT an individual and should not be treated any differently than any other living/human body part. Said point isn't clearly defined of course, but we know it lies in the third trimester (month 7 at least), which renders the whole abortion thing moot because nobody waits seven months to abort an unwanted pregnancy. Abortions only ever happen that late if something's seriously wrong and the fetus and/or the pregnant woman's health are at risk.
The majority of abortions are done within two months of pregnancy. To get some perspective, realize that, at eight weeks, the embryo is about the size and shape of a bean, and an inch long at the most. The irony is that, without prior exposure and training, none of these pro-lifers would even be able to IDENTIFY an embryo at this stage as human. Embryos destroyed at this stage were never conscious, never sentient, and can't feel pain (that ability only comes in the late third trimester too).
So, to finally answer your question directly: there is no logic. The anti-choice (which is what it really is) position is not one arrived at by logic, but by romantic self-delusion about what exactly an embryo/fetus is, and/or religious delusion about the origin of souls (e.g. they will say the soul enters at conception, but identical twins are the result of the embryo splitting into two AFTER conception. So, does each twin have half a soul? Does the soul get ethereally Xeroxed? The list goes on and on). It's an emotional premise, not a logical nor rational one.
No one with a real understanding of embryos/fetuses would freak out over destroying a blob with fewer cells than a newborn fly, especially if they were aware that a good TWO-THIRDS of fertilized eggs (i.e. conception has occurred) fail to implant and are destroyed by the body as if they weren't fertilized at all. That's right--according to the pro-lifer's logic, tons of "children" are being "murdered" on a daily basis without a single medical abortion ever occurring. For every pregnancy, there are on average two such "murders".
There's the "logic" for you. Sorry if I was rambly, but the nonsensical nature of this whole premise drives me nuts.
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M$
I agree with tracebooks. Your answer, after removing your opinions, some of which have their own logical mistakes, is that pro-life advocates view carrying a child to term as punishment. Maybe you could reduce your answer to this and point out the obvious flaw that those same pro-life advocates would believe a person who has consensual incest should be punished as well.
Maybe your proof that 2/3 of the fertilized eggs fail to implant is in the broken 3rd link you provided. Assuming it is true, murder requires intent or negligence, and thus these implantation failures do no qualify. We are discussing abortion on demand.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Murder
Sorry, but you're not responding to the question, but to the entire position.
The question isn't "what is your opinion on the pro-life standpoint." The question is "explain the logic behind being pro-life EXCEPT in the case of rape or incest." They're two very different questions, I made the same mistake and rambled off about explaining the entire pro-life standpoint until I re-read the question and realized ohh yeah... I read it all wrong.
But I do want to say one thing. This world is a big place, with 6.5 billion unique individuals standing on it. That makes for a lot of different values and opinions on this earth. We could all really benefit from being tolerant of and learning the truth about the other opinions and values that are out there in this world. That doesn't mean that we have to believe them, or agree with them, or change anything about ourselves or our views. But rather learning about others, where they come from and why, what they believe and why, and being tolerant enough to say that we can agree to disagree and respect them and our differences. That's how we become more well-rounded, educated individuals. Not by shooting down people who hold a differing opinion as "absurd", "nonsensical", "romantic self-delusion", and saying they have no "real understanding."
And just one more thing... labels hurt. Being pro-choice myself, I've been labeled as "pro-death" and "pro-murder" and similar garbage. I doubt you like that any more than I do. So nobody here needs to be equally hurtful and label others "anti-choice." If pro-lifers should get any label, it's having morals and a conscience that they have enough guts to stand up for. It's not easy to go against mainstream society and stand up for what you believe in. But regardless, we don't need to go labeling each other. That won't get anyone anywhere except insulting the other and that's just never beneficial.
I am a raped conception, im 20 years old, nearly 21, have my own buisness, and went to university.
i was beaten as a child (not by my mother) and abused verbally by lots of children.
when i found out i was a raped conception, it rly got to me, i was rly saddened, and felt betrayed all my life, felt weird, like the mother i always knew, wasnt my mother, idk why.
i guess my portray of her never lying to me, so when she did, it made me think, what else has she lied about.
but it was a question i never asked, til years to come.
in general tho, i believe my mother is an extraordinary woman to deal with bringing me up.
living with me knowing what trauma is there.
i have mental issues, but i had them before i found out how i was concieved.
but, now ive learnt to deal with it, i feel kinda more special knowing my mother loves me enough to bring me up, not abort me, and kept me living.
i wouldnt be here now if it wasnt for her strength, and selflessness.
afterall, i guess it wasnt my fault i was brought into the world how i was, so why punish the child? although, i have to say, i 100% agree with rape abortions, hmm..
not sure why i replied to this, guess i was bored, and thought id add extra to this as its already been answered anyway.
but yea.. i wouldnt rly call myself a victim.. i got to live, and was born.
so, surely im a survivor and in a way very lucky and special to have a woman loving enough to give birth to me, even tho i was put inside her so wrongly, and savagly.
You make a good point that some pro-lifers are afraid to make a scene and opt for the rape and incest clause.
Your sources are very interesting. I was already aware that becoming sterile from rape is more likely than pregnant, because of the trauma of the event.
With all the waiting lists for adoption and the statistics that show that adopted children do even better than children reared by biological parents, I think carrying the baby to term is the most humane and safe thing to do.