Are there any known cases of Autism where the child was not immunized? Please provide details.
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M$9 Answers
This site has an extensive review of the applicable studies
http://www.aconversationonautism.com/VaccinesandAutism/Thimerosal/ScientificStudiesonThimerosalandAutism/tabid/281/Default.aspx
a quote
"The prevalence of pervasive development disorders (autism spectrum disorders) in thimerosal-free birth cohorts was actually significantly higher than that in thimerosal-exposed cohorts (82.7 of 10,000 vs. 59.5 of 10,000"
Here is a link to a CDC study http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vsd/thimerosal_outcomes/
Another association that has been proposed was a link between Autism and the MMR vaccine. The study that purported to show this has been discredited. It is discussed here http://www.aconversationonautism.com/VaccinesandAutism/TheMMRVaccine/tabid/282/Default.aspx and here http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article5683671.ece
Additionally autism was first identified in 1943 well before vaccination use was widespread.
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M$
I agree but the point is, ice cream and autism are unrelated as far as our science in concerned. Same with immunizations and autism.
You said that your mother-in-law didn't vaccinate her younger boys and they didn't get autism. So you are working off of an if/than fallacy. By the same token, she did vaccinate her other children (your husband), right? Any autism?
And I was confused by your mercury comment. Is the inference that mercury causes autism? Because there is mercury in seafood and in the earth. Wouldn't those things potentially cause autism then as well?
Good luck with this one. For whatever reason, this has become a big issue (kinda like death, sterility, mental retardation, and birth defects caused by mumps, measles, and rubella were before the vaccine). It is good that you are asking questions and looking for the correct answers. It is not my place (or anyone else's) to say perhaps, but remember that they are your kids, not your mother-in-law's. If you ultimately agree with her, that's fine. But if you disagree, that is your call (along with your husband, of course).
If ice cream had traces of mercury and thousands of people marched for autism awareness against ice cream, I would ask this question as well. This is not a simple if/than falicy or slippery slope....
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M$
I meant to add, if you are considered not getting your child vaccinated based on autism that there can be legal repercussions. Not only can the child be prevented from attending daycare and school but you can face criminal charges and the child could also be removed from your care. This will also depend on the state in which you live in. In Kentucky, this is required by law.
Hope this helps.
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M$
Here is another interesting link I found on the CDC's website with studies on childhood vaccinations relating to ASD's and autism:
http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/vaccines.htm
This website really looks at many aspects of autism research and provides some solid research points, as well as an extensive reference list, in case you want to research this further.
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M$
Really good point. If vaccines do not make a difference regarding autism, e.g. they do not cause it, then both groups should have exactly the same incidence of autism. I made a fairly large statistics error in my earlier post by saying the smaller group would have a different incidence.
Statistics can be a tricky topic. I may need to take another class on it, or read up some more. I think I understand it, then it confuses me.
Imminuisation doesn't cause Autism and please think about it - Autism is a mental disorder and nobody can determine how long it's been a problem for the human race.
We know how long people have been getting immunised against things and we know it's nowhere near as long as children have been being born with Autism.
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M$I am making an assumption here that you might hold the belief that autism causes vaccines. If I am incorrect, I apologize. But if I am correct, please consider the following.
Because most children are vaccinated, it follows that most children with autism would have been vaccinated.
Or, let me give you another example. Most shark attacks happen within a mile of the beach. From this statistic, you might conclude that there are more sharks near the beach. But, it is not the case. It is because there are more people near the beach, so any shark near the beach is likely to come into contact with a person. Thousands of sharks could be swimming the open sea and not come into contact with anybody.
In this case, the number of swimmers near the shore is the same as the number of people who have been vaccinated. Since those two groups are so much larger, it makes sense that in a larger group, you would find more autism.
You will find that children who are vaccinated also have more of almost any other condition out there, color-blindness, ADHD, allergies, etc.
However, there is one condition where children who are vaccinated have it much, much less than those who are not. And that is the diseases that they are vaccinated against.
Few-to-no kids who are vaccinated for Chickenpox, Measles, Mumps, Rubella, and the whole course of childhood diseases, get them. And if the vaccinated kids do get the disease, they tend to get less sick from it.
Here's a study from 2005 that looks at tuberculosis meningitis in kids who were and were not vaccinated.
http://jnnp.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/76/11/1550
In this case 1. Nearly double the amount of unvaccinated kids got sick, compared to vaccinated kids. 2. 75% of the deaths that happened were from the unvaccinated kids who got the disease.
Finally, on a personal note: Even if I had to choose between my kid getting a childhood disease or getting autism, I would choose them getting autism. Even if there was a risk, I would take it. Because the risks of getting the childhood disease are a lot worse.
I was talking the other day to a guy in the office, in his 50s, who had mumps when he was a teenager. Back then, they did not vaccinate for mumps. He's a great guy, sweet personality, always happy and outgoing. Even, years later, he got visibly emotionally upset when he remembered when he had mumps. He said that his throat was swelled, it hurt so much to swallow, and it was overall a horrid experience.
I fear that fear of vaccines does more harm than good.
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M$
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2005/06/07/amish-autism-part-two.aspx
However, this source then attempts to link the unvaccinated cases to possible exposure to mercury from environmental pollution, which is a nod to the fact that childhood vaccines *used to* use thimerosal, which contains mercury, as a preservative. Originally, the anti-vaccine side believed that thimerosal was responsible for causing autism. However, since the autism rate has continued to rise after the use of thimerosal in vaccines was all but eliminated, they now claim that it's the vaccines themselves that are responsible for autism.
http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/news/20080107/thimerosal-down-but-autism-rising
Furthermore, the original study linking autism to childhood vaccines was fraudulent. It was funded by lawyers attempting to sue vaccine makers at the same time the author of the study (Dr. Andrew Wakefield) was attempting to patent his own measles vaccine, and the medical histories of the children turned out to have been falsified.
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/02/why_am_i_not_surprised_it_looks_as_thoug.php
One greedy idiot has managed to scare millions of people into taking needless risks by not vaccinating their children, risks to not only their children but to the community at large
http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=363
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M$
Bravo. You certainly did a better job than I on this answer.
I am looking for a study done on kids that have received no shots. Not a single one. Heres the scenario, I have a new born(6 days) my mother in law insists that they cause autism. She did not vaccine her two little boys (my wifes younger brothers/my brother in laws) for this reason. Her boys have not gotten sick/autism, she thinks the vaccines are both unneccesary and dangerous. Therefore I am looking for an exception to her rule/preferably within the last few years.....no vaccines (thimerosal or not) and still was diagnosed with autism..
I would like to note that 1943 was when autism was described, meaning that it was distinguished from other mental diseases like childhood schizophrenia. It undoubtedly existed long before then, although we won't know until the causes are fully understood.
As I said as my last point autism was named in 1943 well before the introduction of the polio vaccine in 1955. Measles vaccination became available in 1963. Both measles and polio are potentially debilitating diseases. Children have been severely injured and died as a result of measles infections in the 2000's. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles_outbreaks_in_the_2000s)
There is also this citation on MMR http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1124634
a quote 'MMR vaccination protects children against disease, Dr Madsen said. “Measles kills one in 3000 children, even in developed countries. It causes encephalitis in one in 2000 and pneumonia in one in 20. People tend to forget.”'
I suspect it's all for naught, science rarely trumps hysteria.